Speculation: Roster Building Thread LIX: To trade or not to trade CK?

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If his QO is too high for his production Gorton can just not qualify him, and poof he is an instant UFA. If he is a valuable player at 3m and he is still around next offseason then we have 1 less roster space to fill, making it only 2 forwards that need to be signed via UFA or ELC promotion. This is a win/win here. You have not made a convincing case that we will be short cap space in 20-21.

Where are you getting 2 forward spots? It's still krieder, names, fast, and strome.. and dont forget if you only sign DeAngelo to a 1 year deal now you owe him money. You have not made a convincing case to have no cap space. With your inflated cap space and addition of 2m each you so do the prices of what players are getting..
 
The Rangers are the only Organization in the league without a coaching staff for their top minor league affiliate. This has nothing to do with trades or the salary cap. WTF are these guys doing?

They seemingly went on vacation after July 1st.
 
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Shattenkirk had among the best PK results in the league while he played in STL. The only reason he "isn't a penalty killer" anymore is because he has the reputation of being an offensive guy and hasn't been played there since going to Washington. Staal, conversely, has very poor PK results.

Well he's done precious little penalty killing here and like the rest of our RD the last couple seasons his defending has left a lot to be desired.....and he got this large contract from us not so much because he was good defensively but because he was good offensively and was going to help our pwp--his first season pretty much cut in half he put up 2-10-12 on the pwp and last year which he played in almost its entirety 1-6-7 on the pwp having been supplanted in that role by Pionk in the first half and DeAngelo in the second half. Trouba had 50 points last year and though I think he's a reach to do that he's going to at least half and probably more. The Rangers don't need Kevin's help on the power play--they did two years ago but not now. All this under two different coaching staffs though Quinn last year he goes back a way with. For $6.5 mil per or so a year he needs to bring a lot more to be justifiable to his cap hit...and with younger guys like Fox and DeAngelo in place and Lundkvist and maybe Keane as right shots on the way and Trouba as #1 RD--Shattenkirk IMO should be the odd guy out.
 
True but I see it as being smart with my money not frugal.

But sitting around clutching your cap dollars and refusing to sign impact free agents, because you are worried about something that will not happen, isn't "smart."

It's harmful to your team's chances of success.

Now if you want to argue that Panarin isn't worth the money he will be paid, that's another argument. But the argument that is currently getting play on this board isn't that Panarin isn't an elite, team-changing player. It's that he's great, but signing him will hamstring us from signing other players such as Kreider, Howden, Buch, DeAngelo, players who are clearly supporting players, to long term contracts.

And while it is true that all teams who end up having multiple superstars eventually have to pick who to pay and who to let walk, there simply is no evidence that would support the notion that we are not in a great position to re-sign all the players we will truly want and need to have a Cup Contender. Starting with the fact that there's no credible evidence that the cap will remain stagnant. All the evidence says, it's going up.

Worrying that it will stay stagnant is not smart, it's paranoid. Refusing to sign a guy like Panarin because you are worried about it is foolish, because there's no tangible likelihood that the cap doesn't increase dramatically to allow us to keep all our key, long-term guys.

As you went on to address, the real question is, how do we navigate the current year or two crunch we are in? Which is no big deal, because the worst case scenario is buyouts, and even that, as has been discussed here ad nauseum, does not really hurt us long term from signing everyone we want. These buyouts will be ending before most of our guys are off ELCs. A better option is to trade guys away now to make room, so we don't push it into the future, and there's a tangential debate surrounding that (should we take pennies on the dollar for Namestnikov? Etc). But maybe trading guys away even at discounts isn't possible.

If that's the case, oh well. We are not screwed. We'll be fine.

We need to get through this offseason. We need to sign Trouba and the RFAs. And I'd prefer to be able to lock up Buch and DeAngelo to more than bridge deals, if possible, because it saves a ton of money long term.

If we need buyouts to do that, then do it. If we can trade away Names and Strome for futures, so much the better.

And if we can trade away Names and Strome for futures, AND trade away Kreider + Buch + a middle-of-our-system defensive prospect (like Hajek or Lindgren) for a young top 6 center, then I'm ecstatic and I'm kicking in kickstarter money to build a statue of Jeff Gorton outside MSG.
 
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Ducks fan here wondering if there is a deal to be made around Shattenkirk and Eaves. Ducks need a RHD. Rangers takes Eaves ($3.1mm this year) and put him on LTIR. Net cash cost to Ducks is about $3mm in 19-20 and $4mm in 20-21. Rangers save the entire Shattenkirk cap hit for 2 years. The key is what would the Rangers have to add in terms of a draft pick or prospect to make such a deal work. Seems like a win-win if the sweetener from the Rangers was good enough. Of course, doesn't seem like a move that the Ducks GM would make but it is intriguing.
I certainly think this is the type of deal the Rangers would sign up for in a heartbeat.
 
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i think ADA is going to establish himself this year as a fixture. hes not going anywhere.

that doesnt bode well for KS. at all.

his numbers last year were excellent. his zone exits and possession metrics were top end and i mean league wide.

hes a very skilled, new age type defender and he can play 5v5 reliably. if his head is screwed on straight and he gets a regular shift both 5v5 and on PP1 or 2, hes gonna approach 50 points.

easy.

this organization needs shatty to play well so he can be moved. problem is, that means fox in hartford.

I'm not an accountant or any kind of business person--raising Shattenkirk's trade profile is secondary to me to putting the best possible team on the ice any given night. If Shattenkirk does not play as well as DeAngelo and Fox IMO he shouldn't be playing.

Tony needs to diversify his game a little and add penalty killing to his repertoire. He does that he will be a 20 minute a night top 4 NHL D. If he can't and Fox comes in and shows he's capable of playing in all situations then he leapfrogs Tony in the pecking order.

Rangers gave up quite a bit to get Fox--probably more than they had to because Fox had put the Hurricanes in an awkward position. That said the Rangers got Robertson with the #49 OA so that 37OA is pretty significant and next year there's a pretty decent possibility that Carolina will get another 2nd--so I don't see the Rangers not giving Fox a chance if he comes to training camp and wows everyone.
 
Depends.

I think the TV deal will just be a set amount divided evenly over the course of the deal, like the current one, which will cause the huge jump in year 1.

I highly doubt the NHL would like the new deal to start with a low amount being paid to them and then ramp it up over the next few years. Not sure the broadcaster would want to agree to that as well.

thats not what I meant. obviously the tv contract will be paid evenly over the years. but the NHL/NHLPA could agree to not having the cap jump 10% in one year followed by no increase in future years due to the tv contract since its already built in. escrow guarantees that both sides get their 50% so just a question if you want that extra 10% going to the 30 top guys lucky enough to be UFAs that or spread more evenly. its never happened before but with a new cba coming i'd think anything could be negotiated.
 
I have the impression that the Rangers think Fox is ready for the NHL--it Shattenkirk is around though his ice time comes out of DeAngelo/Fox's hide. Anyway Shatty could have a bounce back year or maybe not--so if not it's a real issue. The best thing would be to get rid of him--how that happens is anyone's guess---about the last thing I'd want to do is buy him out but if Fox comes in and shows he's clearly a better player that's a real dilemma.

As far as Smith--if we can't move him we should buy him out.

you might think or hope fox is ready but it shouldn't be assumed. mcdonagh left school after 3 years same as fox and played 1/2 a season in hartford. brady skjei left school after 3 years and played almost the whole year in hartford. you never know. fox should be given the opportunity to win a spot in ny but you definitely don't want a scenario where you need him in ny if he isn't ready
 
I'm beyond confused as to why the Rangers can't have (2) RD's on the same powerplay unit...

Trouba is not a QB, he's more of a shooter. Pair him with Shattenkirk on the 2nd PP unit

Panarin-Zibanejad-Kreider(if he is still here)
Buch-ADA

Kravtsov-Chytil-Kakko
Trouba-Shattenkirk
Those are some UNITSSSSS

But I do agree, Shattenkirk still has the ability to distribute the puck and make offensive plays for all his warts. He can dish to Trouba for one timers all day long.

Panarin firing away from the left circle with Kreider in front would be nice.

I do think the one change i see with that first unit is Zib rotating to the point after a faceoff and Buch on the right side boards.
 
They do have a condition on the Fox pick this year to Carolina so maybe they do think he may start in the AHL w Shatty getting minutes w Trouba and DeAngelo

I could see McQuaid back cheap to be honest

the condition protects us a bit if he's not ready but I don't think the rangers care that much about it. if fox is ready he'll play
 
Looks like a huge outlier on eliteprospects, so it may just be an error on their end, unless he got a bunch of 10 minute misconducts or something.
 
Shattenkirk would be the one player to redeem himself and have a bounce back season. He is due just $4M in 20-21. $2M is a signing bonus. The Rangers pay the bonus and Shattenkirk is a $2M player. His cap remains the same. The issue is where is the opportunity for Shattenkirk to have a bounce back year.

The Rangers have Trouba and Deangelo ahead of Shattenkirk. Quinn played Deangelo over Shattenkirk last season. Shattenkirk is a PP guy and the Rangers have players ahead of him on the depth chart. Fox could begin the season in Hartford. Shattenkirk is the 3rd pair RD for the time being.

The Rangers need the cap space. If Shattenkirk is bought out or traded, the Rangers could be in the market for a stop gap RD if they want Fox to play major minutes in the AHL to begin the season.

great point on the actually money owed to shattenkirk in the final years. definitely should make him more tradeable after that bonus is paid if not bought out...

on a similar note...brendan smith has a $1 mil bonus and gets paid only $2.35 mil the last year. staal has a $1 mil bonus with $3.2 mil in salary. so all 3 contracts become more movable next summer if you can make thru this season
 
Those are the contracts ending after this season but you can only count what’s on the cap this year as clearing space. Belesky should only count for the $800k after burial and if some combination of Kreider, names and Strome are traded this summer to get under the cap then its double dipping to count them again as coming off the books next summer. If they get removed this summer than that space is instantly gone and already spent

If you read my entire post I address exactly what you are saying here...
 
great point on the actually money owed to shattenkirk in the final years. definitely should make him more tradeable after that bonus is paid if not bought out...

on a similar note...brendan smith has a $1 mil bonus and gets paid only $2.35 mil the last year. staal has a $1 mil bonus with $3.2 mil in salary. so all 3 contracts become more movable next summer if you can make thru this season
Even at 2.35 Smith is overpaid. I said I would've signed him for Klein money, so I guess I f***ed up too.
 
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