Speculation: Roster Building Thread LIX: To trade or not to trade CK?

[Anzi]

Seems like our original offer was probably a little lower? Maybe 11M vs 12.5M was the difference which isn't a small amount of money.

 

[nyr2k2]

Seems like our original offer was probably a little lower? Maybe 11M vs 12.5M was the difference which isn't a small amount of money.

It was reported, I don't remember by who, that the extra $600k in space the Rangers gained by Vancouver's buyout of Spooner led directly to the Rangers increasing their offer.

 

[Calad]

Where are you getting 2 forward spots? It's still krieder, names, fast, and strome.. and dont forget if you only sign DeAngelo to a 1 year deal now you owe him money. You have not made a convincing case to have no cap space. With your inflated cap space and addition of 2m each you so do the prices of what players are getting..

Panarin
Zib
Buch
Kakko
Kravtsov
Howden
Andersson
Chytil
Lemmy
Boo (RFA 700k now)
Strome in this scenario

This gives us 11F. They usually carry 13/8, therefore we would only need 2 F, we already have 8 D under contract with ELCs. It's possible a youngster gets called up and wins a spot on the roster, which would be another player

As a corollary, if we do sign ADA to a 1 year deal, it will likely be at a price close to his QO. If that is the case we may not need to trade/retain a forward to make space for him, or potentially even not use a buyout. In either situation we will have more money to work with to extend him.

No matter which way you slice it, barring a very stupid move/contract, we will have 0 issues with cap compliance next offseason.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

I remember this was reported either earlier this offseason of last offseason as well. IIRC the previous report made it sound as if a signing of him was imminent, even though it obviously never happened.

Also the PIM are not incorrect. He had 25 PIM on 10/28 and 12/1, and then 54 (!) PIM on 10/18.

58:33	71. Burdasov Anton	2	Unsportsmanlike Conduct
58:33	71. Burdasov Anton	2	Unsportsmanlike Conduct
58:33	71. Burdasov Anton	10	Misconduct Penalty
58:33	71. Burdasov Anton	20	Game Misconduct Penalty
58:33	71. Burdasov Anton	20	Game Misconduct Penalty

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Rumor: - NYR in on KHL winger Anton Burdasov (PHI also in in him)

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

 

[Ola]

I don’t see why we’re rushing to get rid of Shattenkirk just to hand the spot to Fox, and the MSG predictions with him stepping into the 2nd pair immediately seem a bit ridiculous.

In a best-of-both-worlds scenario, Shatty recoups value this season and gets moved next summer, and Fox gets to develop in Hartford and doesn’t clinch the 30GP condition which would send Carolina our 2020 2nd.

If we’re expecting to be another lottery team, we should try to retain that pick since it should have good value. Besides, having a loaded AHL team might actually help turn the tide down there for once.

If they need to buyout someone, it should be Smith or Staal due to the redundancy of LHD at the moment. It’s important to find minutes for Hajek, Rykov, Reunanen, and Lindgren this year.

There is no gain in buying out Shatty next season, the cap-hit would be 5.8m.

If we do this is just seems like a set-up for being forced to move our 2021 first round pick to get rid of him next summer.

So far we have suffered damages for every day we have kept Shatty around dreaming about a turnaround. Shatty isn’t built for today’s game. He is stationary, teams want fast defenders that can get to the puck fast. That won’t change. Reports are that we cannot deal Shatty today — @50% — unless we take back another negative value contract. Why would that change? GMs aren’t doing each other any favors.

The cost of keeping Shatty around is tremendous. We will be forced to bridge all kids which will cost us a ton down the road when we are supposed to contend.

I just don’t get why we should mortgage the future on a far fetched bet that Shatty will be reborn, we are still not out of the rebuild. This is the time we should take the hit, to come out of it stronger in a few years.

 

[Ola]

Burdashov might win a spot, but he doesn’t have any potential to be a big contributor. Is it unfair to say that he might become a Fedetenko type at best?

 

[RGY]

How does he not choose us with all of our russians if money is the same. Lol. And not just russians but former teammates

 

[Kovalev27]

This guy is a Russian goon no? 4th line at best? Weird move other than just being buddies with our mini red army

 

[Kovalev27]

If you don’t buy shattenkirk out now you’re stuck with him next year too unless he miraculously becomes a good 40/50 pt dman again.

 

[DutchShamrock]

If the Rangers sign Burdasov, then a deal is in place for Names. Maybe Kreider too

I don't know. I feel like we have been drawing common sense conclusions since before the draft and nothing has happened. Kreider was gone if we signed Panarin.

I hope they have enough sense to not dig a deeper cap hole before they shed some contracts and sign their own RFAs. It seems like they expected things to unfold differently but they shouldn't double down on their overconfidence.

 

[Thirty One]

There is no gain in buying out Shatty next season, the cap-hit would be 5.8m.

If we do this is just seems like a set-up for being forced to move our 2021 first round pick to get rid of him next summer.

So far we have suffered damages for every day we have kept Shatty around dreaming about a turnaround. Shatty isn’t built for today’s game. He is stationary, teams want fast defenders that can get to the puck fast. That won’t change. Reports are that we cannot deal Shatty today — @50% — unless we take back another negative value contract. Why would that change? GMs aren’t doing each other any favors.

The cost of keeping Shatty around is tremendous. We will be forced to bridge all kids which will cost us a ton down the road when we are supposed to contend.

I just don’t get why we should mortgage the future on a far fetched bet that Shatty will be reborn, we are still not out of the rebuild. This is the time we should take the hit, to come out of it stronger in a few years.

Remember when Fox wasn't going to sign here if Shattenkirk was on the roster? Now he's forcing us to bridge the players we were never going to go long-term on. These scare tactics are tiring.

After July 1 next year, he'll be owed $2 million in real dollars. It's a much easier move then.

 

[GAGLine]

I don't know. I feel like we have been drawing common sense conclusions since before the draft and nothing has happened. Kreider was gone if we signed Panarin.

I hope they have enough sense to not dig a deeper cap hole before they shed some contracts and sign their own RFAs. It seems like they expected things to unfold differently but they shouldn't double down on their overconfidence.

If he's getting 1.075 mil or less, it doesn't matter.

 

[Thirty One]

If you don’t buy shattenkirk out now you’re stuck with him next year too unless he miraculously becomes a good 40/50 pt dman again.

Even if he can't be traded much easier after his bonus, which I don't see why he wouldn't and no one seems to feel compelled to give any reason why he wouldn't, a buy-out is still available next season and would of course be cheaper and less lengthy than it would be today.

 

[Ola]

Remember when Fox wasn't going to sign here if Shattenkirk was on the roster? Now he's forcing us to bridge the players we were never going to go long-term on. These scare tactics are tiring.

After July 1 next year, he'll be owed $2 million in real dollars. It's a much easier move then.

That’s not really fair, to call it a scare tactic. Just that has been said the last two seasons and it has been totally incorrect. How can you be so certain that it will be right this time? And in any case, is it fair to call a proposal to pull out of the Shatty investment a ‘scare tactic’?

Look around the league, which teams are giving young players that are showing promise bridge deals? It’s the worst possible option. Everyone used Nikita Zaitsev as an example of why kids shouldn’t be given long term contracts. And it’s hard to imagine a kid doing worse, BUT he still had value. We made a big mistake not giving Stralsy a longer contract when we resigned him the last time. We made a big mistake not giving JT Miller a longer contract when we resigned him the last time. We made a big mistake not giving Chris Kreider a longer contract when we resigned him the last time. We made a big mistake not giving Zucc a longer contract when we resigned him the last time. We made a big mistake not giving Hayes a longer contract the last time we resigned him. We made big mistakes giving Girardi and Staal shorter contracts before we were forced to lock-up them long term on the verge of UFA at the age of 27-28 y/o.

Notice a pattern here? Maybe we shouldn’t make the same mistakes again? And don’t tell me that we don’t know if the player would sign a long-term deal. Before the player gets arbitration rights he has no leverage. He can sign the QO or what we put infront of him or hold out. Give the player a fair long- term deal and it gets signed — it’s what all other teams are doing. That has cap space.

 

[eco's bones]

you might think or hope fox is ready but it shouldn't be assumed. mcdonagh left school after 3 years same as fox and played 1/2 a season in hartford. brady skjei left school after 3 years and played almost the whole year in hartford. you never know. fox should be given the opportunity to win a spot in ny but you definitely don't want a scenario where you need him in ny if he isn't ready

The same could have been said about Cale Makar at the end of last season though. You really don't know until you see the guy in action---or at least if you're a fan. I think the Rangers have a good idea of where Fox is at and maybe they think he will make the team right off and maybe they're not so sure. If a deal came along for Shattenkirk though that took at least most of his cap hit I think they'd move on from him no matter what they think Fox's chances are. They can always find a cheaper RD to fill that gap.

 

[Thirty One]

That’s not really fair, to call it a scare tactic. Just that has been said the last two seasons and it has been totally incorrect. How can you be so certain that it will be right this time? And in any case, is it fair to call a proposal to pull out of the Shatty investment a ‘scare tactic’?

Look around the league, which teams are giving young players that are showing promise bridge deals? It’s the worst possible option. Everyone used Nikita Zaitsev as an example of why kids shouldn’t be given long term contracts. And it’s hard to imagine a kid doing worse, BUT he still had value. We made a big mistake not giving Stralsy a longer contract when we resigned him the last time. We made a big mistake not giving JT Miller a longer contract when we resigned him the last time. We made a big mistake not giving Chris Kreider a longer contract when we resigned him the last time. We made a big mistake not giving Zucc a longer contract when we resigned him the last time. We made a big mistake not giving Hayes a longer contract the last time we resigned him. We made big mistakes giving Girardi and Staal shorter contracts before we were forced to lock-up them long term on the verge of UFA at the age of 27-28 y/o.

Notice a pattern here? Maybe we shouldn’t make the same mistakes again? And don’t tell me that we don’t know if the player would sign a long-term deal. Before the player gets arbitration rights he has no leverage. He can sign the QO or what we put infront of him or hold out. Give the player a fair long- term deal and it gets signed — it’s what all other teams are doing. That has cap space.

It's a scare tactic when it's a repeated high pitched shriek about what Shattenkirk will cost you. You were obviously wrong on Adam Fox.

You're making my point for me. Look at all those players the Rangers went short term on before Shattenkirk was around. What makes you think if Shattenkirk wasn't around they would go long term on:
- Buchnevich, who they appear to have issues keeping him motivated
- DeAngelo, who it's unclear how much they like having him around, or
- Lemieux, a veteran of 72 NHL games

I agree the Rangers should go long-term to RFAs more often. Not indiscriminately though. There's risk there. Toronto found a dumb team to take on Zaitsev, that doesn't mean every bad contract you give to a player in his 20s will be let off the hook.

 

[NYR Viper]

Burdashov might win a spot, but he doesn’t have any potential to be a big contributor. Is it unfair to say that he might become a Fedetenko type at best?

Even a bigger depth forward would be a valuable addition to this team

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

@Ola completely agree. Very frustrating that they appear to be going down the same path with ADA.

The NYR have zero problem risking “bad years” on $6M++ UFA deals but refuse/are unable (due to the UFA deals) to do so on earlier contracts.

It’s completely backwards and why year after year the NYR rank very low around the league in terms of good contracts / bad contracts.

 

[GAGLine]

@Ola completely agree. Very frustrating that they appear to be going down the same path with ADA.

The NYR have zero problem risking “bad years” on $6M++ UFA deals but refuse/are unable (due to the UFA deals) to do so on earlier contracts.

It’s completely backwards and why year after year the NYR rank very low around the league in terms of good contracts / bad contracts.

They gave Skjei 6 years and a year later half this board wants to trade him.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

They gave Skjei 6 years and a year later half this board wants to trade him.

If the NYR wanted to I would wager that the term and lack of movement clause (currently) would make him more valuable around the league than HF may expect. Now the NYR have an additional 2 seasons to evaluate him while still being able to deal him w term and a reasonable cap hit.

 

[bobbop]

Upon further reading if the CBA, it seems that the Rangers can do two summer buyouts if they do choose. The restriction that does exist is three summer buyouts over the span of the CBA.

Brooks was right

 

[Raspewtin]

@Ola completely agree. Very frustrating that they appear to be going down the same path with ADA.

The NYR have zero problem risking “bad years” on $6M++ UFA deals but refuse/are unable (due to the UFA deals) to do so on earlier contracts.

It’s completely backwards and why year after year the NYR rank very low around the league in terms of good contracts / bad contracts.

Brady Skjei? Ryan McDonagh? Mika Zibanejad?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Brady Skjei? Ryan McDonagh? Mika Zibanejad?

Staal pt 1 too.

 

[DutchShamrock]

If he's getting 1.075 mil or less, it doesn't matter.

In a vacuum, yes. It doesnt hurt much.

The big picture is the concern. They are in on another wing. We are trying to move wings out, telegraphing it in fact, and another body doesnt help. Three teams are bidding for him. Are we confident he will come under $1.1m? Is he leaving the K for that?