Speculation: Roster Building Thread LIX: To trade or not to trade CK?

[bobbop]

question though is how much value? a late 2nd? a 3rd? sure he's worth less now without retention but how much less?

It depends on how he is playing this year. Late second makes sense.

 

[NYR Viper]

He can’t kill penalties.

Well in fairness, he can, it's just he does so on defense

 

[bobbop]

Well in fairness, he can, it's just he does so on defense

Some truth here except that he couldn’t crack the top six last year on a bad team.

 

[TheTakedown]

Buch is about 5 years younger and is averaging .56PPG versus Kreider's .58PPG. Buch fits our timeline a lot better. He'll cost a lot less than CK as well. For me it's a no-brainer between CK and Buch.

Not about points on this one... There's more to hockey than just points

 

[SA16]

He can’t kill penalties.

He can. Staal can't.

Staal has well below average PK stats the last 3 years why do we glorify him as being good there? He's not.

 

[Kovalev27]

If that guy can get 4 years and 3.5 mil for putting up namestnikov numbers than I am wrong and there should be some kind of market for him on a one year 4 mil rfa deal no?

 

[TheTakedown]

has there been a single person claiming that strome is good? its laughable all the claims that everyone thinks he's good when he's not when literally no one is saying he is good.

Lets ask someone who actually knows.

@BBKers + @Edge .... What does Strome look like to you? Do you think he can actually get better? Does he have the raw skillset to do it?

 

[RGY]

Wow, here’s a gamble:

Quite the gamble...

 

[Kovalev27]

Not about points on this one... There's more to hockey than just points

If you have Kreider a point for every goal we scored on the power play that only went in because the goalie couldn’t see the shot we’d be talking about a lot More value. No one in the league is better at it imo.

 

[TheTakedown]

BTW Strome's dog is a Shih Tzu and his name is Oscar. I read about it once.

Well f***, now we have to keep him just for the dog... especially since we lost Rongos pup

 

[BBKers]

Ryan Strome...Hmmmm A good transitional utility guy IMO. Not great. Not bad. Size. He has some smarts. Some warts too. Can he step up to a bigger longterm roll? I think his skating is a bit suspect for that. I think they use him in a 2 C/3 W role interchanged with Chytil this year. Maybe Kakko gets a short stint as a C too. Hopefully - our boy takes it and runs. Will the Rangers qualify him, trade him, let him go or buy him out? Seriously doubt a buyout here. It all depends on this season and the progression of other younger talent.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Not about points on this one... There's more to hockey than just points

Agreed, but he still doesn't fit our timeline better than Buch.

 

[TheTakedown]

Carp basically said what everyone already knew.

Trouba will sign, the RFA's will all sign with Buchnevich being the one who may be on the move.

Kreider is likely gone, Namesnikov likely gone, Smith likely bought out. Staal continues to get a free pass.

Remember that the rangers can only buy out ONE player in this buyout window this year.

If the buyout is between Staal or Smith, Smith is a no brainer...

Marc Staal Buyout

SEASON	INITIAL BASE SALARY	INITIAL CAP HIT	SIGNING BONUS	BUYOUT COST	POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS	SAVINGS	CAP HIT ( NYR)
2019-20	$4,000,000	$5,700,000	$1,000,000	$1,200,000	$2,200,000	$2,800,000	$2,900,000
2020-21	$3,200,000	$5,700,000	$1,000,000	$1,200,000	$2,200,000	$2,000,000	$3,700,000
2021-22	$0	$0	$0	$1,200,000	$1,200,000	-$1,200,000	$1,200,000
2022-23	$0	$0	$0	$1,200,000	$1,200,000	-$1,200,000	$1,200,000
TOTAL	$7,200,000	$11,400,000	$2,000,000	$4,800,000	$6,800,000	$2,400,000	$9,000,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Brendan Smith Buyout

SEASON	INITIAL BASE SALARY	INITIAL CAP HIT	SIGNING BONUS	BUYOUT COST	POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS	SAVINGS	CAP HIT ( NYR)
2019-20	$4,525,000	$4,350,000	$0	$1,145,833	$1,145,833	$3,379,167	$970,833
2020-21	$2,350,000	$4,350,000	$1,000,000	$1,145,833	$2,145,833	$1,204,167	$3,145,833
2021-22	$0	$0	$0	$1,145,833	$1,145,833	-$1,145,833	$1,145,833
2022-23	$0	$0	$0	$1,145,833	$1,145,833	-$1,145,833	$1,145,833
TOTAL	$6,875,000	$8,700,000	$1,000,000	$4,583,333	$5,583,333	$2,291,667	$6,408,332

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Cap hit is smaller in every year of the buyout for smith compared to Staal. Staal is also passable in the 3rd pairing... Smith can't even hold down the 7th D spot

Shatts is NOT a good buyout:

Kevin Shattenkirk Buyout

SEASON	INITIAL BASE SALARY	INITIAL CAP HIT	SIGNING BONUS	BUYOUT COST	POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS	SAVINGS	CAP HIT ( NYR)
2019-20	$6,600,000	$6,650,000	$0	$1,433,333	$1,433,333	$5,166,667	$1,483,333
2020-21	$2,000,000	$6,650,000	$2,000,000	$1,433,333	$3,433,333	$566,667	$6,083,333
2021-22	$0	$0	$0	$1,433,333	$1,433,333	-$1,433,333	$1,433,333
2022-23	$0	$0	$0	$1,433,333	$1,433,333	-$1,433,333	$1,433,333
TOTAL	$8,600,000	$13,300,000	$2,000,000	$5,733,333	$7,733,333	$2,866,667	$10,433,332

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Final two years are higher than any of the other guys. We'd save $5M this year, only to have "saved" $$500k on the cap the following year, so whoever is our 6th RD would effectively cost us what Shatt would cost us. Absolutely no point in doing this, Shatts will have value at this years deadline, and ALL of next year

 

[bobbop]

He can. Staal can't.

Staal has well below average PK stats the last 3 years why do we glorify him as being good there? He's not.

Killing penalties as a fourth line forward has nothing to do with Staal.

 

[SA16]

Killing penalties as a fourth line forward has nothing to do with Staal.

Playing on the 4th line at even strength has nothing do with Smith on the penalty kill.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Playing on the 4th line at even strength has nothing do with Smith on the penalty kill.

Smith on the penalty kill has nothing to do with ODC's infatuation with Enver Lisin.

There. I said it.

 

[RangerBoy]

There is perhaps one way out, and that would be if GM Gorton can find a trade match for Shattenkirk that would then allow the Blueshirts to buy out the acquired player and come out ahead on the deal. Like maybe for LA’s Dustin Brown, who has three years remaining on his deal at $5.875 million per.

https://nypost.com/2019/07/17/the-salary-cap-hell-the-rangers-are-still-trying-to-navigate/

11.18 Ordinary Course Buy-Outs Outside the Regular Period. Clubs shall have the right to exercise Ordinary Course Buy-Outs outside the regular period for Ordinary Course Buy-Outs in accordance with Paragraph 13(c)(ii) of the SPC. Each Club shall be limited to no more than three (3) such Buy-Outs outside the regular period over the term of this Agreement pursuant to Paragraph 13 of the SPC. However, in the event that a Club has only one salary arbitration hearing pursuant to Section 12.3(a) in a given League Year, such Club shall not be entitled to exercise such an Ordinary Course Buy-Out outside the regular period. Moreover, a Club shall not be entitled to exercise an Ordinary Course Buy-Out outside the regular period for: (i) any Player who was not on the Club's Reserve List as of the most recent Trade Deadline, or (ii) any Player with an Averaged Amount less than $2,750,000. The dollar amount of $2,750,000 set forth in this Section 11.18 shall be increased on an annual basis at the same percentage rate of annual increase as the Average League Salary, with the first such increase occurring based upon a comparison of the 2014/15 Average League Salary to the 2013/14 Average League Salary. By way of example, if the Average League Salary for the 2014/15 League Year has increased by ten (10) percent from the Average League Salary for the 2013/14 League Year, then the figure of $2,750,000 stated in Section 11.18, shall be increased by ten (10) percent to $3,025,000.

Who wants to inform Brooks the Rangers can't use a buyout on a player who wasn't on the Rangers reserve list last February?

The Rangers are stuck with the cap situation. They get what they deserve.

The Rangers should not have gotten involved with Shattenkirk at all. Smith too.

 

[RangerBoy]

Dom from The Athletic wrote about bad contracts today.

The Rangers created more headaches for themselves.

 

[Raspewtin]

I really want to know what RangerBoy thinks of the Smith and Shattenkirk signings. Wish he'd stop hiding his thoughts and just come out with it already.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

Dustin Brown has played 1,117 games there, he's still an effective player, and they're gonna trade him for Kevin Shattenkirk. Okay

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Staal needs to do us a solid and hang em up.

 

[East Coast Bias]

I really want to know what RangerBoy thinks of the Smith and Shattenkirk signings. Wish he'd stop hiding his thoughts and just come out with it already.

It's easy to come out against every contract when you don't believe in anything but ELCs

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Remember that the rangers can only buy out ONE player in this buyout window this year.

If the buyout is between Staal or Smith, Smith is a no brainer...

Marc Staal Buyout

SEASON	INITIAL BASE SALARY	INITIAL CAP HIT	SIGNING BONUS	BUYOUT COST	POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS	SAVINGS	CAP HIT ( NYR)
2019-20	$4,000,000	$5,700,000	$1,000,000	$1,200,000	$2,200,000	$2,800,000	$2,900,000
2020-21	$3,200,000	$5,700,000	$1,000,000	$1,200,000	$2,200,000	$2,000,000	$3,700,000
2021-22	$0	$0	$0	$1,200,000	$1,200,000	-$1,200,000	$1,200,000
2022-23	$0	$0	$0	$1,200,000	$1,200,000	-$1,200,000	$1,200,000
TOTAL	$7,200,000	$11,400,000	$2,000,000	$4,800,000	$6,800,000	$2,400,000	$9,000,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Brendan Smith Buyout

SEASON	INITIAL BASE SALARY	INITIAL CAP HIT	SIGNING BONUS	BUYOUT COST	POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS	SAVINGS	CAP HIT ( NYR)
2019-20	$4,525,000	$4,350,000	$0	$1,145,833	$1,145,833	$3,379,167	$970,833
2020-21	$2,350,000	$4,350,000	$1,000,000	$1,145,833	$2,145,833	$1,204,167	$3,145,833
2021-22	$0	$0	$0	$1,145,833	$1,145,833	-$1,145,833	$1,145,833
2022-23	$0	$0	$0	$1,145,833	$1,145,833	-$1,145,833	$1,145,833
TOTAL	$6,875,000	$8,700,000	$1,000,000	$4,583,333	$5,583,333	$2,291,667	$6,408,332

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Cap hit is smaller in every year of the buyout for smith compared to Staal. Staal is also passable in the 3rd pairing... Smith can't even hold down the 7th D spot

Shatts is NOT a good buyout:

Kevin Shattenkirk Buyout

SEASON	INITIAL BASE SALARY	INITIAL CAP HIT	SIGNING BONUS	BUYOUT COST	POST-BUYOUT EARNINGS	SAVINGS	CAP HIT ( NYR)
2019-20	$6,600,000	$6,650,000	$0	$1,433,333	$1,433,333	$5,166,667	$1,483,333
2020-21	$2,000,000	$6,650,000	$2,000,000	$1,433,333	$3,433,333	$566,667	$6,083,333
2021-22	$0	$0	$0	$1,433,333	$1,433,333	-$1,433,333	$1,433,333
2022-23	$0	$0	$0	$1,433,333	$1,433,333	-$1,433,333	$1,433,333
TOTAL	$8,600,000	$13,300,000	$2,000,000	$5,733,333	$7,733,333	$2,866,667	$10,433,332

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Final two years are higher than any of the other guys. We'd save $5M this year, only to have "saved" $$500k on the cap the following year, so whoever is our 6th RD would effectively cost us what Shatt would cost us. Absolutely no point in doing this, Shatts will have value at this years deadline, and ALL of next year

Smith can be waived...

And staal is not passable in a 3rd pairing role. He’s a massive liability in any role that involves him playing. This has been proven time and time again.


I don’t think people understand how bad he was last year and has been for a long while now.

 

[Tawnos]

Dom from The Athletic wrote about bad contracts today.

View attachment 245133



The Rangers created more headaches for themselves.

Fans: With the Panarin signing and drafting Kakko, we've sped up our rebuild to where our window could open as soon as 2 years from now.
Writer: The belief is that they've sped up their rebuild, but they're still a couple of years away.

Derp.

Also, there's a big difference between payroll structure and roster structure allowing you to contend.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Smith can be waived...

And staal is not passable in a 3rd pairing role. He’s a massive liability in any role that involves him playing. This has been proven time and time again.


I don’t think people understand how bad he was last year and has been for a long while now.

Saying Smith can be waived is like saying I can ask Margot Robbie on a date. While technically true, nothing would come from either of those events. Nobody is picking up a replacement-ish dman @ 2* 4.35 off waivers