Speculation: Roster Building Thread LII: Countdown to Free Agency

[Cag29]

We did?

The zucc return is garbage we have to pray he stays in Dallas which is looking further and further away at this time.

The Hayes return turned out well because a miracle happened and the pick fell to 20. But by no means were those good returns.

Kreider for a guy like Lemieux and a 27 thru 31 pick is nothing I’d want to move him for.

Those were solid returns. I disagree with you. We have Trouba. And a 2nd and possibly another 1st for Zucc. Those are solid returns. They were UFA.

 

[Off Sides]

We did?

The zucc return is garbage we have to pray he stays in Dallas which is looking further and further away at this time.

The Hayes return turned out well because a miracle happened and the pick fell to 20. But by no means were those good returns.

Kreider for a guy like Lemieux and a 27 thru 31 pick is nothing I’d want to move him for.

I understand what you are saying, yet I'm not so sure I understand why Kreider, Hayes, Zucc, McD, JT Miller or any player who has only one year left under contract or as a RFA would be worth more than rental like value. It's not like the other teams are getting better stuff for their players who only have a year left or less.

 

[NYSPORTS]

(1) Policeman? This isn't the stone ages. Toughness is not defined by dropping the gloves any longer. IN fact, I'd argue team toughness (which the Rangers displayed a lot of last year despite their lack of an enforcer) is far more important than having one deterrent.

(2) No one is behaving like Marty McSorley did back in the day. There's just no need for police. If you can get your hands on a Wilson type, that's a huge advantage, but otherwise, getting by with the Smith's, Lemiuex's, ADA's of the world is absolutely fine.

(3) I truly wonder when people will come to the realization that having a Colton Orr, Boogaard, Brashear, etc. is no longer a smart move and actually hurts the team.

1. Who displayed toughness on the Rangers besides Lemieux? There isn’t anybody on defense who forces the opponent to skate with their heads up let alone hit anybody. What forwards besides Lemieux displayed this toughness you post about? They play the Caps and the boards are owned by Washington along with the hitting. And yes, you need a force to police the violence.

2. Not worried about Marty McSorley, i’m Worried about a bunch of teenagers and very young 20/21 yr olds skating around with opponents without a worry in the world of retaliation.

3 I truly wonder when people will realize this is still hockey and not figure skating.

 

[Vitto79]

So guys are gonna verbally sign this week . Should see some more trades because of that

 

[Fireonk]

We did?

The zucc return is garbage we have to pray he stays in Dallas which is looking further and further away at this time.

The Hayes return turned out well because a miracle happened and the pick fell to 20. But by no means were those good returns.

Kreider for a guy like Lemieux and a 27 thru 31 pick is nothing I’d want to move him for.

Zucc return is certainly debateable. Don't remember anyone being upset by the return for Hayes. That was a huge win for a trade deadline non-elite UFA. Nothing conditional on resigning or playoff success, just a guaranteed 1st and a good young player. Whats wrong with that?

 

[wafflepadsave]

COL isn't going to trade a 1st or a cost controlled player that can step in for them. Just not the way they do business. This is a team that needs to re-sign half of their roster, but has shown that they are frugal. I don't know what their internal cap is, but this is not a team that spends to the cap.

I would not expect Kaut or a 1st coming back by any stretch, but would estimate a return like Bowers, Nieto/Calvert & 2nd being a palatable return for them for a Kreider.

For example, they need a back-up goalie, but have a cheap $900K option in Francouz whose played well and is ready to step in, and probably won't be in the market for a goalie, despite "needing" to sign one.

Well then we block their number.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Beyond the 1st rounder, the Avs just don’t have enough for me to get Kreider. I’d rather target someone like Boston with better and farther along prospects, who probably won’t be averse to moving their 2020 1st.

Yes, who would be your prospect pick be? Studnicka is for me

 

[NikC]

We did?

The zucc return is garbage we have to pray he stays in Dallas which is looking further and further away at this time.

The Hayes return turned out well because a miracle happened and the pick fell to 20. But by no means were those good returns.

Kreider for a guy like Lemieux and a 27 thru 31 pick is nothing I’d want to move him for.

Return for Zucc return was a bust.
Awful

 

[GAGLine]

Zucc return is certainly debateable. Don't remember anyone being upset by the return for Hayes. That was a huge win for a trade deadline non-elite UFA. Nothing conditional on resigning or playoff success, just a guaranteed 1st and a good young player. Whats wrong with that?

The Stars were up 3 games to 2 against St. Louis and went to double overtime in game 7. They were 1 goal away from getting us a 1st instead of a 2nd. The 3rd next year can still become a 1st. Even if it doesn't, it was still a good deal. People want the Rangers to roll the dice but then get pissed off when the gamble doesn't pay off.

 

[Fireonk]

The Stars were up 3 games to 2 against St. Louis and went to double overtime in game 7. They were 1 goal away from getting us a 1st instead of a 2nd. The 3rd next year can still become a 1st. Even if it doesn't, it was still a good deal. People want the Rangers to roll the dice but then get pissed off when the gamble doesn't pay off.

For the record, I agree with you and wrote a very similar post at the time. I can at least see why someone would be disappointed in the return for him though.

Hayes, I just don't see a legitimate argument for.

Edited because I found my post:

The reality is this deal most likely ends as us getting a 2nd and 3rd. And when it does that's overall a bit of an underwhelming return.

BUT:
That 2nd is likely to be as high of one as they were likely going to get.
If any of the conditions are met its a huge win.
If he resigns with Dallas and the wheels fall off next year for them this could turn into an all-time fleecing.

Again, unlikely for that to happen but I don't really think there was another deal out there that has this much potential to score a jackpot. People constantly complain about not getting that high end talent. Here is us buying a lottery ticket. Having trouble seeing the people who are constantly bringing up the high end talent point turning around and arguing that Gorton didn't get enough here. If you want that high end piece you shouldn't be too concerned that we didn't get another 2nd rounder over this option.

 

[Ghost of jas]

The Rangers just got a 1st round talent at 49. Not seeing a problem with the return on the Zuccarello deal.

 

[Tawnos]

The Stars were up 3 games to 2 against St. Louis and went to double overtime in game 7. They were 1 goal away from getting us a 1st instead of a 2nd. The 3rd next year can still become a 1st. Even if it doesn't, it was still a good deal. People want the Rangers to roll the dice but then get pissed off when the gamble doesn't pay off.

Like I said at the time, I believe there was a guaranteed 1st on the table from a team, but Gorton wanted to gamble on getting 2. It didn't work out, but that's ok.

 

[Zibanejbread]

Return for Zucc return was a bust.
Awful

What did you honestly expect?
UFA wingers at the deadline returned:
M Johansson - a 2nd and a 4th (Zucc return better)
Simmonds - a 4th and Hartman (Zucc return better)
(retained) Nyquist - a 2nd and a 3rd (potentially the same)
Hagelin - a 3rd (Zucc return better)

 

[RangerBoy]

 

[Tawnos]

The Rangers just got a 1st round talent at 49. Not seeing a problem with the return on the Zuccarello deal.

I don't include who they drafted as part of either evaluation I make of the trade. There's value at the time and there's outcome. If Robertson becomes an NHL player, then the latter will be positive, but not yet.

 

[NYSPORTS]

The return on this Miller and Zuc deals have to full evaluated once the draft picks have shot to join the Rangers.

Meanwhile, I too wonder about the Miller trade and how Tampa flipped him for what appears to be more. Let’s look at the bigger picture outside of the perceived bigger picture though. Tampa, for all their genius and heist, amazingly didn’t even win a playoff game. That’s the real big picture. Genius failed so let’s go easy on ourselves.

 

[NikC]

I just read on the Dallas board, that Zucc is testing the market.
That is Awful asset management

Drafting KK was a no brainer.
It seems to me that for every good move JG does he offsets it with a move like the above

 

[Ori]

Return for Zucc return was a bust.
Awful

Well I just disagree and unluck - it`s a bad bounce and if they won in OT in playoffs it would be: Jeff Gorton is a genius and Stars would maybe win the Stanley cup instead, but Jeff is still successful in that GM position, very happy with him so far.

What is sad is that some remember Zucc as skulking, because it send wrong signals back home since he is the only true NHL talent at the moment, but he is human and he has emotions after all these years in NY.

 

[NikC]

What did you honestly expect?
UFA wingers at the deadline returned:
M Johansson - a 2nd and a 4th (Zucc return better)
Simmonds - a 4th and Hartman (Zucc return better)
(retained) Nyquist - a 2nd and a 3rd (potentially the same)
Hagelin - a 3rd (Zucc return better)

First off they shouldn't have waited for to move Zucc. A 60p forward should have returned a 1rd pock

 

[NYSPORTS]

First off they shouldn't have waited for to move Zucc. A 60p forward should have returned a 1rd pock

and if he resigns the Rangers get the #1. Not everybody is going to gamble like the Jets did

 

[NYRFANMANI]

You guys understand we still get the DAL 1st.

Zucc will explore FA. No other team will care. He'll sign with Dallas, we get the pick.

 

[LORDE]

Hayes and Zucc were both FREE assets.

Of course we all (Gorton incl) wanted another 1st this year and next.

 

[Gardner McKay]

The Rangers just got a 1st round talent at 49. Not seeing a problem with the return on the Zuccarello deal.

A guy that, as some have speculated, we would have taken anyway with a late 1st round pick.

I just read on the Dallas board, that Zucc is testing the market.
That is Awful asset management

Drafting KK was a no brainer.
It seems to me that for every good move JG does he offsets it with a move like the above

Trading a guy that doesn't fit in with the direction your club is taking and is a pending UFA is awful asset management? No, that is good asset management.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Waaaahhhh we should have gotten more for __________!!!

You guys whining about the return know a hell of a lot less than Gorton does about the market and what's actually available versus what you believe is available.

 

[Miamipuck]

Did you see the **** eating grin on his face after they chose Kakko?

Did you see mine?