Speculation: Roster Building Thread III (2019/2020) - Tick Tock

[FIRE DRURY]

Zucc was the league MVP of the SEL at 22 years old.
MSL was a point per game AHL player at 22 years old.
Stillman scored 83 points in an AHL season at 20 years old.
Whitney had 40 points in 61 games in the NHL at age 21 after absolutely destroying the IHL at age 19.
Cleary was near point per game in the AHL at 20 and then had a 74 point season in 58 games in the AHL at 21.

How are any of these guys even remotely similar? They were all around point/game players in the AHL or Europe at younger ages. Nichushkin has a career high of 34 points (in a very nice 18 year old season) and a best KHL season of 24 points in 36 games.

And despite their production in the AHL or IHL in Whitney's case, those players didn't put it together until their mid-20's in the NHL. Nigel freaking Dawes was nearly a PPG player in the AHL as well. AHL success doesn't always translate to NHL success.

Again, there's no edict from god that says Nich cannot turn his career around, however unlikely that is.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

It would be horrendous asset management. The Rangers are NOT winning the cup this year. The long term future of this organization is infinitely more important than some pipe dream cup chase. Rather not end up like the Blue Jackets.

If the Rangers are first in the division at the deadline, it's laughable to say that a Cup chase is a "pipe dream".

Thankfully, no living GM would ever evaluate a situation like that.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Stralman was actually good before he came to NYR tho, so it's not a good comparison.

Stralman went from good to great with the Rangers.

Nuke is not undergoing the same transition.

Yeah, Stralman was a legitimate NHLer. Looked at as a bottom pairing guy.

Nich sucks. He's hilariously bad. The only reason he is even in the league is due to his draft position. He is one of the worst NHLers in the league (and that's if he even makes the Avs squad - which I wouldn't bank on).

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Off the top of my head, Dan Cleary, Ray Whitney, Cory Stillman, Zucc, and St. Louis are players that come to mind that turned their careers around in their mid-20's. Whether they had 7 pro seasons by 24 or 25 is something I'd have to look up.

And just because Stralman plays a different position doesn't mean it wasn't a good comparison.

Someone like Cleary completely reinvented himself as a player, though. Completely changed his game.

How did Zucc turn his career around? Same with MSL? MSL didn't change his game. He was just miscast in Calgary and then thrived on the Bolts. Both MSL and Zucc were smaller skilled guys who are sometimes hard to peg for teams obsessed with size.

Ray Whitney is also in a similar boat. It's not like he's a guy who completely transformed himself. So lumping him with Cleary makes little sense as well. Stillman was a top draft pick who performed like one over the course of his career. He was a NHL player at the time. He wasn't some scrub like Nich.

 

[Fitzy]

I just want to note that 2 pages of aggressive discussion of the merits of a one year league minimum deal with a Western conference team is about the most mid-August hfboards thing ever.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Someone like Clearly completely reinvented himself as a player, though. Completely changed his game.

How did Zucc turn his career around? Same with MSL? MSL didn't change his game. He was just miscast in Calgary and then thrived on the Bolts.

They were both young players with potential that didn’t put it together in the NHL until their mid 20’s.

If you watched Nich in the WJC’s when Russia won the Bronze, he was an animal.

He showed tremendous potential his rookie season in Dallas. He then had hip surgery and he’s played like crap ever since.

All I’m saying is this isn’t a bad signing for Colorado. Even if it’s a long shot.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

They were both young players with potential that didn’t put it together in the NHL until their mid 20’s.

If you watched Nich in the WJC’s when Russia won the Bronze, he was an animal.

He showed tremendous potential his rookie season in Dallas. He then had hip surgery and he’s played like crap ever since.

All I’m saying is this isn’t a bad signing for Colorado. Even if it’s a long shot.

You're very clearly stats-surfing, here, since your comparisons are all bad and make no sense (that you didn't really address anything I said makes that abundantly clear).

It's almost as if a major surgery has derailed his career and that he isn't going to be turning it around any time soon since he can't or something. Dude sucks. He was mediocre in the KHL and is not a legitimate NHL player.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I just want to note that 2 pages of aggressive discussion of the merits of a one year league minimum deal with a Western conference team is about the most mid-August hfboards thing ever.

Nichushkin is to Cleary as Prucha was to Crosby.

 

[SA16]

Here are some reasonable comparisons for Nichushkin based on the start of his career:

Joel Armia, Alex Burmistrov, Magnus Paajarvi, Jacob Josefsson. It's hard to find many because most players that are drafted in the first round and played professionally at 18+ actually produce.

Anyway I have tried to look for guys that were like legitimately bad for the first 6-7 years and then became good (in baseball too) and I'm not finding anyone. Most of the late bloomers are just small guys who were never given an opportunity because of size bias.

 

[Bob Richards]

Valeri Nichushkin's past season reminds me of when someone made that website didgomezscore.com

What a ride that was

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Valeri Nichushkin's past season reminds me of when someone made that website didgomezscore.com

What a ride that was

Did Nichushkin Score Yet?

 

[FIRE DRURY]

You're very clearly stats-surfing, here, since your comparisons are all bad and make no sense (that you didn't really address anything I said makes that abundantly clear).

It's almost as if a major surgery has derailed his career and that he isn't going to be turning it around any time soon since he can't or something. Dude sucks. He was mediocre in the KHL and is not a legitimate NHL player.

How am I stat surfing when my response to you contained no stats?

 

[wafflepadsave]

They were both young players with potential that didn’t put it together in the NHL until their mid 20’s.

If you watched Nich in the WJC’s when Russia won the Bronze, he was an animal.

He showed tremendous potential his rookie season in Dallas. He then had hip surgery and he’s played like crap ever since.

All I’m saying is this isn’t a bad signing for Colorado. Even if it’s a long shot.

Just less cap space for Kreider.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Just less cap space for Kreider.

They have like 15m and only Rantanen left to sign. They have plenty for CK

 

[NYR Viper]

okay literally any player at below 1 mill for a year is a risk free acquisition

what difference does it make?

This is exactly correct. And yet people were semi-bashing it for Colorado. Seems like a summer conversation

 

[theFiGS]

I know most will say ugh not this no way not again but I've always been a Kovalchuk advocate I loved his game from Atlanta to NJ and as a ranger fan obviously happy we didn't have to deal with him in Jersey n screwing them with contract but I've always wanted him as a ranger a nd still do. Seems like there's a fall out in LA he's unhappy and they're just not a contender at the moment. I think he'd be a great 3rd line winger power play specialist and mentor for our young Russians already here and I'm the pipeline. Kravtsov buchnevich panarin I'm sure had his posters on their walls.. Not to mention he's still a sniper and only has 2 years remaining I think if we are definitely trading Kreider we should look to LA take on some of kovys salary but of course picks prospects of a young talent to go with it even tho I'm against.trading kreidz but I'd love to see Kovy as a ranger.. Flame away I know I'm gonna.get hammered.for this one

and NO I don't want to trade kreidz for kovy that just doesn't make sense but if we have to trade him n got kovy with 25%+ salary retained with a pick and prospect I'd be ok with it but by no way am I saying let's trade kreider for kovy or trade kreider at all I wanna see the C on his sweater.

 

[nyr2k2]

I know most will say ugh not this no way not again but I've always been a Kovalchuk advocate I loved his game from Atlanta to NJ and as a ranger fan obviously happy we didn't have to deal with him in Jersey n screwing them with contract but I've always wanted him as a ranger a nd still do. Seems like there's a fall out in LA he's unhappy and they're just not a contender at the moment. I think he'd be a great 3rd line winger power play specialist and mentor for our young Russians already here and I'm the pipeline. Kratzov buchnechov I'm sure free up with the guys posted on their walls.. Not to mention he's still a sniper and only has 2 years remaining I think if we are definitely trading Kreider we should look to LA take on some of kovys salary but of course picks prospects of a young talent to go with it even tho I'm against.trading kreidz but I'd love to see Kovy as a ranger.. Flame away I know I'm gonna.get hammered.for this one

Kovy sucks. He's done. He's owed $6M+ over the next two years with an NMC. LA can't retain enough salary to make acquiring him worth it for us (a team who is trying to get younger and faster). Also, come on man, "Kratzov" and "Buchnechov"? What about Shartleskin?

 

[Tawnos]

I know most will say ugh not this no way not again but I've always been a Kovalchuk advocate I loved his game from Atlanta to NJ and as a ranger fan obviously happy we didn't have to deal with him in Jersey n screwing them with contract but I've always wanted him as a ranger a nd still do. Seems like there's a fall out in LA he's unhappy and they're just not a contender at the moment. I think he'd be a great 3rd line winger power play specialist and mentor for our young Russians already here and I'm the pipeline. Kratzov buchnechov I'm sure free up with the guys posted on their walls.. Not to mention he's still a sniper and only has 2 years remaining I think if we are definitely trading Kreider we should look to LA take on some of kovys salary but of course picks prospects of a young talent to go with it even tho I'm against.trading kreidz but I'd love to see Kovy as a ranger.. Flame away I know I'm gonna.get hammered.for this one

I'm firmly convinced that Kovalchuk wanted to be a Ranger that summer he re-signed with NJ... and that, if had become one, he never would've bolted.

But also, what an awful idea!

 

[theFiGS]

Kovy sucks. He's done. He's owed $6M+ over the next two years with an NMC. LA can't retain enough salary to make acquiring him worth it for us (a team who is trying to get younger and faster). Also, come on man, "Kratzov" and "Buchnechov"? What about Shartleskin?

like I sai d flame away but this Be tablet has the worst auto correct has a field day with Russian names

 

[theFiGS]

I'm firmly convinced that Kovalchuk wanted to be a Ranger that summer he re-signed with NJ... and that, if had become one, he never would've bolted.

But also, what an awful idea!

Respect the honesty, it's August. I want hockey I don't know I've always have had a thing for kovy and that wrister

 

[Tawnos]

Respect the honesty, it's August. I want hockey I don't know I've always have had a thing for kovy and that wrister

If he could still skate I'd be on board. And admittedly I wanted him last year on at most a 2-year deal just to bridge the gap, but I have no interest in him at this point.

 

[LieutenantLackluster]

Shartleskin?

I'm dead

 

[NYR94]

Shartleskin is his name from now on.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

I know most will say ugh not this no way not again but I've always been a Kovalchuk advocate I loved his game from Atlanta to NJ and as a ranger fan obviously happy we didn't have to deal with him in Jersey n screwing them with contract but I've always wanted him as a ranger a nd still do. Seems like there's a fall out in LA he's unhappy and they're just not a contender at the moment. I think he'd be a great 3rd line winger power play specialist and mentor for our young Russians already here and I'm the pipeline. Kravtsov buchnevich panarin I'm sure had his posters on their walls.. Not to mention he's still a sniper and only has 2 years remaining I think if we are definitely trading Kreider we should look to LA take on some of kovys salary but of course picks prospects of a young talent to go with it even tho I'm against.trading kreidz but I'd love to see Kovy as a ranger.. Flame away I know I'm gonna.get hammered.for this one

and NO I don't want to trade kreidz for kovy that just doesn't make sense but if we have to trade him n got kovy with 25%+ salary retained with a pick and prospect I'd be ok with it but by no way am I saying let's trade kreider for kovy or trade kreider at all I wanna see the C on his sweater.

After the head job Avery put on him in the 2006 playoffs, I never wanted any part of him.....came unglued far too easy.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Ok so im gonna go on vacation now for 5 days and see if I can avoid HF the entire time. Hopefully Ill come back to some news. Probably not. haha

Later dudes!