Speculation: Roster Building Thread II (2022-23): The Puck is Prepared to be Mounted

[Atax]

But why is he better than them? Don’t give me fancy stats that are influenced by who’s on the ice with him…what has he done or shown that he’s better than those players?

His skills are better suited for a top 6 role over them. Vesey is a 4th liner/PK. Gaut is a 4th liner who can move up to the 3rd if he gets hot. Goodrow is a guy who should be on the 4th line and moved around as needed throughout the game. Brodzinski is a AAAA player. The only reason he's not in the lineup is because the coach is a stubborn dude who only made changes when he was about to lose his job.

 

[Mandar]

His skills are better suited for a top 6 role over them. Vesey is a 4th liner/PK. Gaut is a 4th liner who can move up to the 3rd if he gets hot. Goodrow is a guy who should be on the 4th line and moved around as needed throughout the game. Brodzinski is a AAAA player. The only reason he's not in the lineup is because the coach is a stubborn dude who only made changes when he was about to lose his job.

Don’t disagree that the others are not suited for the top 6, but what skills does he have? Oh, I know that he’s described as being a skilled player, but that’s never translated on the ice here. Lots on here just want to anoint him with a top 6 spot, but it’s never been shown on the ice that he belongs there.

 

[bhamill]

His skills are better suited for a top 6 role over them. Vesey is a 4th liner/PK. Gaut is a 4th liner who can move up to the 3rd if he gets hot. Goodrow is a guy who should be on the 4th line and moved around as needed throughout the game. Brodzinski is a AAAA player. The only reason he's not in the lineup is because the coach is a stubborn dude who only made changes when he was about to lose his job.

True. But Goodrow is the only one playing in the top six, and I agree he shouldn’t be. Probably Vesey would come out for Krav if Goodrow is moved back down as he should. Vesey has been better than Krav this year but I’d still swap Krav in for him and let him work on his game. Maybe rotate Blais and Vesey on the fourth line and the press box Since neither is a C. Or Blais Goodrow Vesey as the 4th. Brod an extra.

 

[huerter]

You'll become a much more intelligent person if you never reference line numbers.

 

[Crease]

Kravstov doesn’t need to be better than Goodrow, Vesey, or whoever. He’s not going to make or break their playoff hopes, and there’s a good chance he become a better option than those guys in April if you give him the reps now.

 

[Atax]

Don’t disagree that the others are not suited for the top 6, but what skills does he have? Oh, I know that he’s described as being a skilled player, but that’s never translated on the ice here. Lots on here just want to anoint him with a top 6 spot, but it’s never been shown on the ice that he belongs there.

I mean when you start off with something along the lines of “besides the fancy stats” it makes me feel like you have an agenda against him. His main problem has been staying healthy(which is a big problem). But he looked good playing with Panarin. He had good vision and didn’t seem out of place. He also played a physical game and would get into scrums with 0 hesitation.

You don’t know what you have unless you play them. We had to sit through like 4 seasons of Gauthier driving to the net and missing. I’m fine with Kravstov getting more then like 30 games over the likes of Vesey, Blais, Gaut, Brod etc.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Don’t disagree that the others are not suited for the top 6, but what skills does he have? Oh, I know that he’s described as being a skilled player, but that’s never translated on the ice here. Lots on here just want to anoint him with a top 6 spot, but it’s never been shown on the ice that he belongs there.

Because none of the aforementioned players are capable of looking like this:

He's a 22 year old top 10 pick, they need to give him opportunity whether it's to solidify his spot in the top 6 here or increase his trade value. Dicking him around and scratching him in favor of scrubs is not helping anybody.

 

[Mandar]

I mean when you start off with something along the lines of “besides the fancy stats” it makes me feel like you have an agenda against him. His main problem has been staying healthy(which is a big problem). But he looked good playing with Panarin. He had good vision and didn’t seem out of place. He also played a physical game and would get into scrums with 0 hesitation.

You don’t know what you have unless you play them. We had to sit through like 4 seasons of Gauthier driving to the net and missing. I’m fine with Kravstov getting more then like 30 games over the likes of Vesey, Blais, Gaut, Brod etc.

I have zero agenda against him….if he thrives and produces, it makes the team better. I just haven’t seen that on the ice. Health issues aside, I want to notice him on the ice….doing things that make a difference….haven’t seen that at all.

I‘ ve said it a bit on here…when he does any routine thing, it gets magnified as if he did something special. The traits you describe with him could be attached to any of those bottom 6 players. Good vision? Whoa boy…

 

[Mandar]

Because none of the aforementioned players are capable of looking like this:

He's a 22 year old top 10 pick, they need to give him opportunity whether it's to solidify his spot in the top 6 here or increase his trade value. Dicking him around and scratching him in favor of scrubs is not helping anybody.

And the next time he does that in the NHL will be the first time.

Scratching him in favor of scrubs is appropriate because he hasn’t shown anything more than being one of those scrubs during his time here. But hey…he completed a pass once, so he’s a top 6 guy.

 

[Levitate]

Generally I think some of these things are as simple as "can keep the play going in the offensive zone without turning the puck over, even if that is just swinging it to an open teammate or being in position to receive a pass"

dumb little things that you think "anyone can do that!" But I certainly watch bottom six guys sling the puck around the boards to no one or be nowhere near a position to collect the puck or be a viable passing option

 

[Atax]

I have zero agenda against him….if he thrives and produces, it makes the team better. I just haven’t seen that on the ice. Health issues aside, I want to notice him on the ice….doing things that make a difference….haven’t seen that at all.

I‘ ve said it a bit on here…when he does any routine thing, it gets magnified as if he did something special. The traits you describe with him could be attached to any of those bottom 6 players. Good vision? Whoa boy…

Yeah the line of Mckegg, Rooney, Reaves totally had great vision. Its clear no matter what anyone says, you will just disregard it and keep on the hate train. Whether or not you see it, you have an agenda. Anyways I'm over this convo. Enjoy your night.

 

[mas0764]

No, it's much closer to 'out of the realm of reality'.

It's blind optimism in this org to not only draft a center and then develop one.... but you want two. That's borderlining on absurd for this org.

We received two lottery picks. Turned out terrible for us so far, not to the fault of the prospects IMO.

If we draft a Center this draft and he develops in Juniors or NCAA, great... Take 2-3 years to grow. I don't want anymore young, under developed kids on the big team. They should never be relied upon... If it happens, it should be in a surplus/surprise scenario.

Well it would be within the realm of possibility for a normally run team.

 

[mas0764]

This isn't true either. I mean let's just look at the last 3 years, age 24, 25 and 26.

24 year old season
15 points in 36 games (I would say he was tracking for more than 15 points here...)

25 year old season
4 points in 14 games (23 points extrapolated and he was on a new team until Subban took him out)

26 year old season
5 points in 25 games (after coming back from being out with a major knee injury which is known to take a year plus to recover from)

I'm not saying he is going to be a 60 point winger. But I find it disingenuous to call him a 'bad' player or a 15 point winger.

He’s not even a 30 point player. He’s a fourth liner and nothing more.

 

[mas0764]

Don’t disagree that the others are not suited for the top 6, but what skills does he have? Oh, I know that he’s described as being a skilled player, but that’s never translated on the ice here. Lots on here just want to anoint him with a top 6 spot, but it’s never been shown on the ice that he belongs there.

But the advanced stats show it is translating. You can’t ask for an answer but then say “except the answer that proves me wrong, that one doesn’t count.”

 

[EdJovanovski]

And the next time he does that in the NHL will be the first time.

Scratching him in favor of scrubs is appropriate because he hasn’t shown anything more than being one of those scrubs during his time here. But hey…he completed a pass once, so he’s a top 6 guy.

Maybe watch the video next time, large chunk of it even very early on in the video are in the NHL. He pulled off his signature deke the game he scored in this season.
The analytics say he's been one of our best players, and so does the eye test according to HF.

He has the highest avg number of votes on GDT's of anyone on the team. Both this season and in his 20 game sample size a couple years back.

Lets take a little trip down memory lane before the revisionist history happened.

Are HF just a bunch of morons? Or when the analytics say he's been one of the best, and HF's eye test says he's been one of the best; maybe he is actually more talented than Jimmy Vesey & Sammy Blais.

 

[Mandar]

But the advanced stats show it is translating. You can’t ask for an answer but then say “except the answer that proves me wrong, that one doesn’t count.”

so, do the advanced stats translate into production? Now sure, you can say that the advanced stats prove me wrong, but if it doesn’t move the needle at all, what value do they have?

 

[mas0764]

so, do the advanced stats translate into production? Now sure, you can say that the advanced stats prove me wrong, but if it doesn’t move the needle at all, what value do they have?

I think it tends to tell you - tends, not ironclad - how well a player is playing beyond just stat sheet production.

The metrics would say Kravtsov is playing better than Goodrow in the flow of our offense.

 

[Mandar]

Maybe watch the video next time, large chunk of it even very early on in the video are in the NHL. He pulled off his signature deke the game he scored in this season.
The analytics say he's been one of our best players, and so does the eye test according to HF.

He has the highest avg number of votes on GDT's of anyone on the team. Both this season and in his 20 game sample size a couple years back.



Are HF just a bunch of morons? Or when the analytics say he's been one of the best, and HF's eye test says he's been one of the best; maybe he is actually more talented than Jimmy Vesey & Sammy Blais.

He’s got 3 more career goals as a Ranger than Blais….he’s got 3 less career points as a Ranger than Blais has as a Ranger. Some talent. But those wonderful analytics…certainly shows production, doesn’t it?

you keep clinging to HF votes as a barometer….I guess that’s analytical….he gets a cookie every time he completes a pass

 

[Mandar]

I think it tends to tell you - tends, not ironclad - how well a player is playing beyond just stat sheet production.

The metrics would say Kravtsov is playing better than Goodrow in the flow of our offense.

Is that a product of him being on a line that is more of an offensive style? And playing better how? By being on a line that has more offensive talent than the ones Goodrow has been on?

 

[mas0764]

Is that a product of him being on a line that is more of an offensive style? And playing better how? By being on a line that has more offensive talent than the ones Goodrow has been on?

I doubt it, because both players have played up and down the lineup.

I’m not saying he’s driving the offensive himself or anything, but Goodrow very much is what he is at this point.

Kravtsov is a player who, similar to Kakko, has a lot of things going wrong and working against him (some of them his doing and some of them not), but who is showing flashes of being a skilled offensive player and he’s putting up a solid xGf.

 

[Avery16]

Are HF just a bunch of morons?

 

[TominNC]

He’s got 3 more career goals as a Ranger than Blais….he’s got 3 less career points as a Ranger than Blais has as a Ranger. Some talent. But those wonderful analytics…certainly shows production, doesn’t it?

you keep clinging to HF votes as a barometer….I guess that’s analytical….he gets a cookie every time he completes a pass

Yeah, when I start taking HF votes as a metric, it'll be time to give up and live in fantasy land like Ed

 

[duhmetreE]

Mika working on his lefty one-timer and our legendary hobbit skills coach makes an appearance.



but at least they are working on shooting

 

[duhmetreE]

Because none of the aforementioned players are capable of looking like this:

He's a 22 year old top 10 pick, they need to give him opportunity whether it's to solidify his spot in the top 6 here or increase his trade value. Dicking him around and scratching him in favor of scrubs is not helping anybody.

bruh....

16 minutes? are you kidding me. How many highlights are on repeat?

 

[EdJovanovski]

bruh....

16 minutes? are you kidding me. How many highlights are on repeat?

None, some of them show multiple angles of a play but that's all. This spans from his D-1 through 2021-22 season, includes rare footage of WJC not available on YouTube. Pls watch it though, it's well worth your time. I've used the video during a couple debates on the main board and a few guys who are fans of other teams admitted they have a completely different view of Krav after watching it.