Speculation: Roster Building Thread II (2022-23): The Puck is Prepared to be Mounted

[mas0764]

Drury getting a first for Nils is a homerun.

And like I said, I think getting a first for Nils was partially because Nils was a first himself.

I don't know that it's a guarantee he could get a first for Jones. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility, but I think Jones doesn't have that "ex first rounder" shine.

But that doesn't mean his only value is as a rental chip.

Jones and Kravtsov very well might be good players but when? They haven't looked like anything special in the opportunities they've been given. Again, no one is shoving them out the door but it's naive to think their development trumps the Rangers desire to get better for a playoff run. We are in a Cup window. Its an objective fact, even if you dont think they have a chance.

They can get better without parting with their premium assets like they did with Vatrano, Motte, and Braun.

It may be that it's an objective fact that they want to get better, but it's not just opinion, it's pretty clear cut that first round picks are better spent elsewhere than deadline rentals, whether that's selecting a player and getting a long term piece out of it, or whether it's packaging the picks for a long term player who is already in the NHL.

I could live with, say, Krav and a 24 first for Chychrun with retention, perhaps, with the idea that Trouba eventually gets moved to recoup that first, but the problem with that is he will likely cost way more than that and I'm not emptying the cupboard for Chychrun.

But if the choice is Tarasenko for 6-8 weeks or riding Kravtsov into the ground until he either develops or completely busts, the better bet on what will get you to a Cup is simply riding Kravtsov into the ground.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

And like I said, I think getting a first for Nils was partially because Nils was a first himself.

I don't know that it's a guarantee he could get a first for Jones. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility, but I think Jones doesn't have that "ex first rounder" shine.

But that doesn't mean his only value is as a rental chip.



They can get better without parting with their premium assets like they did with Vatrano, Motte, and Braun.

It may be that it's an objective fact that they want to get better, but it's not just opinion, it's pretty clear cut that first round picks are better spent elsewhere than deadline rentals, whether that's selecting a player and getting a long term piece out of it, or whether it's packaging the picks for a long term player who is already in the NHL.

I could live with, say, Krav and a 24 first for Chychrun with retention, perhaps, with the idea that Trouba eventually gets moved to recoup that first, but the problem with that is he will likely cost way more than that and I'm not emptying the cupboard for Chychrun.

But if the choice is Tarasenko for 6-8 weeks or riding Kravtsov into the ground until he either develops or completely busts, the better bet on what will get you to a Cup is simply riding Kravtsov into the ground.

For sure. I mean we all remember what the Piles got for Griffin Reinhardt, a guy who was so bad he had to retire at like 25 . All because he was a high pick.

 

[McRanger92]

And like I said, I think getting a first for Nils was partially because Nils was a first himself.

I don't know that it's a guarantee he could get a first for Jones. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility, but I think Jones doesn't have that "ex first rounder" shine.

But that doesn't mean his only value is as a rental chip.



They can get better without parting with their premium assets like they did with Vatrano, Motte, and Braun.

It may be that it's an objective fact that they want to get better, but it's not just opinion, it's pretty clear cut that first round picks are better spent elsewhere than deadline rentals, whether that's selecting a player and getting a long term piece out of it, or whether it's packaging the picks for a long term player who is already in the NHL.

I could live with, say, Krav and a 24 first for Chychrun with retention, perhaps, with the idea that Trouba eventually gets moved to recoup that first, but the problem with that is he will likely cost way more than that and I'm not emptying the cupboard for Chychrun.

But if the choice is Tarasenko for 6-8 weeks or riding Kravtsov into the ground until he either develops or completely busts, the better bet on what will get you to a Cup is simply riding Kravtsov into the ground.

Youre welcome to that opinion but you'd be prospect hugging guys who dont have a long-term future here. Id personally rather have 6-8 weeks of a healthy Tarasenko on a Cup contending Ranger team than 6-8 more weeks of whatever Kravtsov has given us before he bolts back to Russia in the summer when his only NHL offer is a $850,000 QO. It certainly is preferably to trading either 2023 1st round pick.

 

[mas0764]

Youre welcome to that opinion but you'd be prospect hugging guys who dont have a long-term future here. Id personally rather have 6-8 weeks of a healthy Tarasenko on a Cup contending Ranger team than 6-8 more weeks of whatever Kravtsov has given us before he bolts back to Russia in the summer when his only NHL offer is a $850,000 QO. It certainly is preferably to trading either 2023 1st round pick.

Kravtsov is a bit of a special circumstance if he is going to choose to depart the league.

If I knew for a fact that he was spending 6-8 more weeks here then going back to Russia absent an enormous contract, and therefore that I could get nothing else for him, of course I'd take Tarasenko, but in that case, it doesn't seem likely the Blues would give up Tarasenko for a few weeks of Kravtsov.

But if Kravstov is going to go to the Blues and re-sign with them because he can nail down a top 9 role there, uh.... what's the problem here then? We have a top 9 spot. The coach just keeps yanking him out of it.

 

[EpicDing]

They can get better without parting with their premium assets like they did with Vatrano, Motte, and Braun.

In what world are 2 4ths and a 3rd "premium assets?" If you said Copp I'd give it to you but, come on.

 

[Savant]

I’m okay with getting some depth guys. There are some good options there. I’m not trying to deal any prime assets to get stomped by Boston though

 

[mas0764]

In what world are 2 4ths and a 3rd "premium assets?" If you said Copp I'd give it to you but, come on.

No, I'm saying that the 2 fourths and a third are the deals we should be making.

 

[EpicDing]

No, I'm saying that the 2 fourths and a third are the deals we should be making.

Lol totally misread that, my bad!

 

[McRanger92]

Kravtsov is a bit of a special circumstance if he is going to choose to depart the league.

If I knew for a fact that he was spending 6-8 more weeks here then going back to Russia absent an enormous contract, and therefore that I could get nothing else for him, of course I'd take Tarasenko, but in that case, it doesn't seem likely the Blues would give up Tarasenko for a few weeks of Kravtsov.

But if Kravstov is going to go to the Blues and re-sign with them because he can nail down a top 9 role there, uh.... what's the problem here then? We have a top 9 spot. The coach just keeps yanking him out of it.

We dont have a top 9 spot for him thats the issue. He has potential, but potential doesnt get the 2023 Rangers much. The only reason the Blues (for arguments sake) could even have a spot for him is because they are gearing up to trade 4 regular forwards. I know people don't like Goodrow, because of his contract, and Vesey, for *reasons*, but theyve both significantly outplayed Krav. We're also going to add at the deadline regardless, pushing Kravtsov even further out of the lineup. I don't think that's very good for his development, if thats what this is really about, and they should do him a favor and move him, no? Theyve only been trying to for a year and half, with no takers.

If were trading for rentals (newsflash, we are) I would much rather trade players like Jones & Kravtsov, who we have no space for and arent trusted by the coaching staff, than any of our high picks in 2023.

 

[mas0764]

We dont have a top 9 spot for him thats the issue

Lafreniere - Zibanejad - Kakko
Panarin - Chytil - xxx
Kreider - Trocheck - xxx
Blais, Vesey, Rydahl, Goodrow, Gauthier, Brodzinski, Leschysyn (sp?) are all 4th liners. I see two open top 9 RW spots if Krav isn't in the lineup.

He has potential, but potential doesnt get the 2023 Rangers much. The only reason the Blues (for arguments sake) could even have a spot for him is because they are gearing up to trade 4 regular forwards. I know people don't like Goodrow, because of his contract, and Vesey, for *reasons*, but theyve both significantly outplayed Krav. We're also going to add at the deadline regardless, pushing Kravtsov even further out of the lineup. I don't think that's very good for his development, if thats what this is really about, and they should do him a favor and move him, no? Theyve only been trying to for a year and half, with no takers.

They should do themselves a favor.

Again, if they decide moving Kravtsov is the best thing for themselves, that's ok, but I need more than a rental back.

Goodrow and Vesey have outproduced but I'm not so sure they have been significantly better. And as the coach himself said, Kravtsov isn't built to play a grinding role. The problem is that's all they make available to him, too often.

If were trading for rentals (newsflash, we are) I would much rather trade players like Jones & Kravtsov, who we have no space for and arent trusted by the coaching staff, than any of our high picks in 2023.

The problem is the coaching staff and how it views (and develops) young players, then.

Which I think we all know is a huge problem for this organization. It doesn't know how to develop offense, it places too much emphasis on being defensively responsible, and it kinda ruins some kids.

 

[McRanger92]

Lafreniere - Zibanejad - Kakko
Panarin - Chytil - xxx
Kreider - Trocheck - xxx
Blais, Vesey, Rydahl, Goodrow, Gauthier, Brodzinski, Leschysyn (sp?) are all 4th liners. I see two open top 9 RW spots if Krav isn't in the lineup.



They should do themselves a favor.

Again, if they decide moving Kravtsov is the best thing for themselves, that's ok, but I need more than a rental back.

Goodrow and Vesey have outproduced but I'm not so sure they have been significantly better. And as the coach himself said, Kravtsov isn't built to play a grinding role. The problem is that's all they make available to him, too often.



The problem is the coaching staff and how it views (and develops) young players, then.

Which I think we all know is a huge problem for this organization. It doesn't know how to develop offense, it places too much emphasis on being defensively responsible, and it kinda ruins some kids.

Goodrow was a good 3rd liner for multiple Cup teams and remains so. Vesey is playing borderline elite defense and on the PK and chipping in goals. Youre trying to disguise a Kravtsov issue as a development issue. Gallant trusts Chytil and Kakko plenty, Filip himself has 3 empty netters this year so clearly the coaching staff is confident in the kids, just not Kravy. Miss me with the development narrative. I've said my piece on that more than enough.

If VK could simply adapt his game to play a 4th line role, we wouldnt be having this issue. Unfortunately he hasn't and that's why they are trying another 21 year old there instead

 

[Leonardo87]

If VK could simply adapt his game to play a 4th line role, we wouldnt be having this issue. Unfortunately he hasn't and that's why they are trying another 21 year old there instead

VK is a player who needs Top 6 time, imo. I just don’t think he is going to get it here with our existing vets and Laf, Kakko, and Chytil pushing themselves up there if they can take strides.

Can’t really make him a 4th line grinder that is not his game.

 

[Lgrsean]

All 3 guys on that 3rd line are on pace to score roughly 15 goals and 2 of them very well could be 4th liners by March 1st. Not sure what more youd expect.

I don’t have a problem with the goodrow/trocheck/vesey line getting 3rd line minutes. Each of their scoring has benefited from playing with 3 of our best forwards though. 2 of our top 4 centers on a shut down line creates a problem on the 4th line.

Gauthier was waived and passed up by every team in the NHL. Leschyshyn might have been passed up by every team in the NHL if the Rangers didn’t pick him up. Cuylle has never played in an NHL game. What is reasonable to expect from that line?

Until we trade for a middle 6 rw, I think these lines might our best players on lines that will get the most out of them and doesn’t leave a 4th line that would be as bad as it gets in the nhl.

Bread/Mika/kravtsov
Laf/chytil/kakko
Kreider/Trocheck/Gauthier
Goodrow/Vesey/Leschyshyn/Rydahl

 

[bl02]

Drury getting a first for Nils is a homerun. He cant crack the Dallas lineup.

Jones and Kravtsov very well might be good players but when? They haven't looked like anything special in the opportunities they've been given. Again, no one is shoving them out the door but it's naive to think their development trumps the Rangers desire to get better for a playoff run. We are in a Cup window. Its an objective fact, even if you dont think they have a chance.

Also, not for nothing but if Kravtsov was so confident in his ability that he defied the organization twice to leave Hartford, shouldn't he be playing better?

Still holding out some hope for Jones. I know he's undersized but still think his hockey IQ and ability to create some offense will interest a team. Just doesn't seem like GG will ever give him a stretch of games especially as we come down closer to the end of the season/playoff run. In his last 10 games in Hartford he's putting up close to a ppg.
I just don't wanna trade any of our firsts this year but if we did just make it the lower of the two firsts or put a condition on it (finals or winning cup).

 

[Chalfdiggity3]

Craig Custance discussed the Red Wings adding Horvat to have a 1-2 punch of Larkin and Horvat in the middle. The Red Wings haven't had a top pick in the draft to draft another center. The Red Wings are not getting a top pick in this draft to draft a center. Yzerman has assets to trade for Horvat. It seems Detroit has offered Larkin $8.5M. Yzerman would sign both players. Larkin hasn’t accepted $8.5M.

There was no Stamkos waiting for Yzerman in Detroit.

Wonderful, but ive been stating this for awhile since Edge posted about Larkin last offseason. Larkin does not want to waste his prime on a rebuilding franchise. He wants to win and have the opportunity to win a cup. The Redwings for all their rebuilding and throwing around money this past offseason is still a dumpster fire.

Yzerman can offer him all the money he wants. It wont matter. Larkin wants to win and he knows its not going to happen on the Wings.

Love when people say its all on the GM. The player has to want to be there too.

 

[mas0764]

VK is a player who needs Top 6 time, imo. I just don’t think he is going to get it here with our existing vets and Laf, Kakko, and Chytil pushing themselves up there if they can take strides.

Can’t really make him a 4th line grinder that is not his game.

And again, if they have decided to move on, fine.

But they need to do better than a rental then.

And it's not like you can just demand that a skilled kid become a 4th line grinder and then we "wouldn't be having this issue." Gallant is not gonna put Laf on the 4th line either nor should he.

But he does need to find a spot where he works in the top 9. That's his f***ing job so I don't want to hear about how it's all the player's fault.

 

[Leonardo87]

And again, if they have decided to move on, fine.

But they need to do better than a rental then.

I see a lot of teams who can give him the ice time. But most of them are rebuild teams who will be hesitant to move draft picks and prospects so would have to be a rental or roster player, if that makes sense.

 

[mas0764]

I see a lot of teams who can give him the ice time. But most of them are rebuild teams who will be hesitant to move draft picks and prospects so would have to be a rental or roster player, if that makes sense.

I would be surprised if there's not at least a young reclamation project they can try.

Kravtsov for Hayton.

Or for a defender, like in a package for Chychrun or for a young RD so we can move Trouba eventually.

 

[McRanger92]

VK is a player who needs Top 6 time, imo. I just don’t think he is going to get it here with our existing vets and Laf, Kakko, and Chytil pushing themselves up there if they can take strides.

Can’t really make him a 4th line grinder that is not his game.

Couldnt agree more. I think he ends up a Gurianov type player if he sticks in the NHL

 

[Leonardo87]

Couldnt agree more. I think he ends up a Gurianov type player if he sticks in the NHL

Players sometimes need new scenery and it also motivates them . He’s been playing well, nothing earth shattering but well enough to stay in the line up.

It’s has to be tough for some players playing in NYC. The spotlight is on you and the media and fans can be tough.

 

[McRanger92]

I would be surprised if there's not at least a young reclamation project they can try.

Kravtsov for Hayton.

Trading Kravtsov for Barrett Hayton is so much worse than trading him for a rental lol. Hayton is terrible. Just because he's young it doesnt make him good or enticing in any way

 

[dshea19]

I think, even in the short term, Othman makes VK expendable. Othman doesn't have VK's pure skill, but he makes more use of what he does have. I don't see Othman spending a full season in the AHL next year. I think he comes up sooner.

Trocheck doesn't work with Panarin, but I think Chytil really can if given an extended stay there. Trocheck might actually be a really good fit for Laf to help bring him out of his funk. Straight forward and instinctive hockey. Does VK work with Chytil and Bread? Do the Rangers trust those 3 to play any meaningful defense? The way this team is currently constructed, they have problems. Not a lot of players with complimentary styles, which I think is largely because they don't really have a team identity or clear roles for the players.

This team really needs the Panarin that first showed up to the team. The version they have now doesn't click with anyone, which is amazing considering how many points he has. I could only imagine how he would be with some players he clicks with. The guy they have now is literally causing lineup problems because they are unable to get players to fit with him consistently. Great players usually elevate those around them, but that isn't happening this year. His first season was everything that was promised, but there were hints of the problems to come because they were consistently using Blackwell and Fast on the right. That kind of thing puts your roster out of balance because 4th liners are not playing on the 4th line and top 6 guys have nowhere to go.

 

[mas0764]

Trading Kravtsov for Barrett Hayton is so much worse than trading him for a rental lol. Hayton is terrible. Just because he's young it doesnt make him good or enticing in any way

It's a lottery ticket for a young long term piece, at least.

Rentals don't work, so that's nothing. I want more than nothing.

 

[bhamill]

And again, if they have decided to move on, fine.

But they need to do better than a rental then.

And it's not like you can just demand that a skilled kid become a 4th line grinder and then we "wouldn't be having this issue." Gallant is not gonna put Laf on the 4th line either nor should he.

But he does need to find a spot where he works in the top 9. That's his f***ing job so I don't want to hear about how it's all the player's fault.

Weird thing is Laf can actually play a 4th line game. It's not where he should be though...

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Rentals don't work.

We did pretty well with them last year.

Not to mention the impact Lekhonen had on Colorado. They don’t win without him.