Speculation: Roster Building Thread II (2022-23): The Puck is Prepared to be Mounted

[Savant]

What's hilarious is we'll pay more for Tarasenko or Barbashev than what they paid us for Buch lol.

Good GM vs bad GM. Advantage STL

 

[jerseyjinx94]

We didn't really lose that much. It's just a projection based on our current roster.

Cuylle was brought up, so his cap hit counts. Blais was sent down, but on a conditioning assignment, so he still counts against the cap. RB posted the numbers, but basically, Cuylle will probably be around for the next 2 games, which will be 4 days on the roster. For those 4 days, he will cost about 17k total. Once he is sent down again, our projected cap space will go back up to almost where it was before.

That’s what I thought. Thanks

 

[jerseyjinx94]

Lmfao. You act as if this team employs zero youth. Its so disingenuous. “Closing the book on three young potentially valuable assets” — keyword: Potentially. Acting like Zac Jones is some stud prospect and this staff is too dumb to realize it — I mean c’mon. There is also the very real possibility that Jones becomes nothing more than a bottom pair defenseman in the NHL and Kravtsov becomes an average middle 6 winger OR goes back to Russia at some point. Meanwhile adding a Tarasenko and RoR, proven successful players in the NHL could* lead to success. It works both ways.

There isn’t a great fit for Kravtsov at the moment. There is more competition LITERALLY on the way. Jones, they clearly don’t see someone they can trust even on the 3rd pair in limited minutes. He isn’t getting PP time here, not even PP2 time here. Miller owns that time now. So where does he fit? I know you have all the answers and one of those retorts will be ‘well naturally we should be trading Jones and Kravtsov for young NHL players that fit our needs’ as if that magical perfect trade partner automatically exists.

Trading Jones and/or Kravtsov for rentals is really, really poor use of them as assets. If you’re thinking is that there isn’t a place for them on this team, you move them for equivalent pieces with similar long term value or recoup futures. These types of moves never work out for the team making them, and almost always backfire.

 

[JohnC]

We didn't really lose that much. It's just a projection based on our current roster.

Cuylle was brought up, so his cap hit counts. Blais was sent down, but on a conditioning assignment, so he still counts against the cap. RB posted the numbers, but basically, Cuylle will probably be around for the next 2 games, which will be 4 days on the roster. For those 4 days, he will cost about 17k total. Once he is sent down again, our projected cap space will go back up to almost where it was before.

The beat writers, specifically Vince, are making way too big of a deal about the projected cap space on a day to day basis IMO.

Every day they’ve carried an extra body on the roster has been treated like the team’s going to end up with negative cap space by the deadline.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

I think an unspoken subtle move this team may make is a guy like Nick Bjugstad. Size and experience, we need a dependable 4C. Shouldnt cost much.

Give me Bjugstad, Barbashev (if not cost prohibitive), Motte, and a LD. I’m good with that. Move out Hajek, Gauthier (if helps keep draft pick costs a little lower). Keep 2023 1/2s.

Barbashev/Trocheck/Goodrow would be a heck of a 3rd line. Bjugstad with Motte and Vesey on the 4th, Krav and Blais ready to sub in for injuries.

 

[Jauffre]

gIVE ME pATRICK kANE!

 

[mrmovies779]

ROR, lhd for 3rd pair and a Motte type and go to war

 

[Lgrsean]

This team doesn’t score enough to have the goodrow/trocheck/vesey line AND a 4th line that kravtsov doesn’t fit on. It’s like they want to have a shitty 4th line so it doesn’t take away ice time from the other 3 lines.

 

[huerter]

This team doesn’t score enough to have the goodrow/trocheck/vesey line AND a 4th line that kravtsov doesn’t fit on. It’s like they want to have a shitty 4th line so it doesn’t take away ice time from the other 3 lines.

It’s January. See THE TEMPLATE.

 

[tlk]

This team doesn’t score enough to have the goodrow/trocheck/vesey line AND a 4th line that kravtsov doesn’t fit on. It’s like they want to have a shitty 4th line so it doesn’t take away ice time from the other 3 lines.

*so they save capspace.

gIVE ME pATRICK kANE!

No.

 

[Vitto79]

The lost 1.5 mill of accrued space today. They need Blais out to offset that. They’ve got 5+ space now they will definitely make multiple moves and spend that up. I tend to agree it will be multiple depth moves

Last year he dealt a 1,2,3,4,5 pick I think
Probably in the plans this year too
They will recoup W smaller deals like they did W Lundkvist , Georgiev , Reaves

 

[RangerBoy]

Craig Custance discussed the Red Wings adding Horvat to have a 1-2 punch of Larkin and Horvat in the middle. The Red Wings haven't had a top pick in the draft to draft another center. The Red Wings are not getting a top pick in this draft to draft a center. Yzerman has assets to trade for Horvat. It seems Detroit has offered Larkin $8.5M. Yzerman would sign both players. Larkin hasn’t accepted $8.5M.

There was no Stamkos waiting for Yzerman in Detroit.

 

[RangerBoy]

John Giannone believes Drury will add depth players like last season. Copp, Motte and Vatrano type of players.. Players the Rangers can move up and move down the lineup. He said the Rangers had more to give up last season so it will be more difficult for him. He doesn’t believe Drury is trading a young roster player or top prospect. He didn't mention the Rangers having two first round picks. Maybe Drury isn't moving a 1st in this draft for a depth piece which would be a disaster. He didn’t mention the Rangers had much more cap space last season. They had -$7M in actual space which accrued to -$30M.

Drury traded a two 2nd's(one 2nd became a 1st)/Winnipeg had the option to take the 2nd in 23 but they chose 22), 5th round pick in 23 and Barron to Winnipeg for Copp and a 6th in 23

A 3rd in 23 to Philly for Braun

A 4th in 22 to Florida for Vatrano. Drury had another 4th acquired from Vegas(via Winnipeg) for Howden. The Rangers keep the higher pick. Winnipeg.

A 5th in 23 fo Vancouver for Motte

These dickheads think Kane is still good.

 

[mas0764]

Lmfao. You act as if this team employs zero youth. Its so disingenuous. “Closing the book on three young potentially valuable assets” — keyword: Potentially. Acting like Zac Jones is some stud prospect and this staff is too dumb to realize it — I mean c’mon. There is also the very real possibility that Jones becomes nothing more than a bottom pair defenseman in the NHL and Kravtsov becomes an average middle 6 winger OR goes back to Russia at some point. Meanwhile adding a Tarasenko and RoR, proven successful players in the NHL could* lead to success. It works both ways.

This staff has been too dumb to properly develop a number of their assets so far so it wouldn’t be unprecedented.

Adding older players for one run hardly ever works as we have seen again and again. If they don’t like Zach Jones because they have a foolish infatuation with size on Defense, then he should be traded for a prospect swap or for an equal value draft pick like Nils was, so they can continue to stock their pipeline with value.

There isn’t a great fit for Kravtsov at the moment. There is more competition LITERALLY on the way. Jones, they clearly don’t see someone they can trust even on the 3rd pair in limited minutes. He isn’t getting PP time here, not even PP2 time here. Miller owns that time now. So where does he fit? I know you have all the answers and one of those retorts will be ‘well naturally we should be trading Jones and Kravtsov for young NHL players that fit our needs’ as if that magical perfect trade partner automatically exists.

We have a desperate need for long term, cheap RWs. Of course there is a fit. The coach just insists on playing grit up in the lineup.

You act like having opinions is having “all the answers.” Yea I have my opinions and I will state them just like anyone else does. That’s not a crime.

If they want to trade Kravtsov, ok, but it should be for good value and not a rental. You can’t keep squandering long term assets into nothing…. Which we keep doing.

At the end of the day, trading 1st round picks or top prospects for rentals is just dumb. I don’t care for Drury but he at least seemed to understand that last deadline. Mid round picks for guys like Vatrano is how to do deadline business. Overpaying invaluable assets for 6 weeks of Tarasenko is not smart and hardly ever works. If you think you need a rental impact player to win the Cup then you aren’t good enough and history bears this out over and over and over. The Cup winners rarely are the ones who spend big.

 

[mas0764]

Calling one of two 1sts a “surplus 1st” makes it sound far more disposable than it is. Is Schneider a surplus defender? We’ve got a bunch in the system... but that’s semantics I guess. its not like you called it an extra. Hahaha.
Two prospects and a first THIS YEAR for two rentals? I wouldn’t do it. You want to make it our 2nd that becomes a first if we win the cup? Not as bad, because those two players are far from a guarantee and anything less for that price is a big loss on that trade. IMO of course.

First rounds picks would just about always be off the table for me as deadline ammunition unless I'm getting either a player (a) with term that I see as a long term piece (and would therefore have to be young enough to fit the core I was trying to build, or (b) the player is expiring but I'm confident that I have the cap space to re-sign him and am positive I will want to do so (and also has the above-mentioned requisite youth).

The only time I would make an exception is with the contingency you just mentioned. "If we win the Cup," I don't care if a later pick becomes a first or even more than one. We won the Cup. That was the goal.

Getting to the conference finals, no way I'd ever have a second turn into a first with that stipulation.

 

[RGY]

Trading Jones and/or Kravtsov for rentals is really, really poor use of them as assets. If you’re thinking is that there isn’t a place for them on this team, you move them for equivalent pieces with similar long term value or recoup futures. These types of moves never work out for the team making them, and almost always backfire.

What are those perfect match trades? When are they happening? The summer? 2024 Trade Deadline? Following Summer? Does the value of the assets start to diminish? What do you think Nils Lundkvist would fetch today compared to prior to the season? This team’s window has opened. They are in compete mode. Acting as if its so crazy and poor to trade what could be stagnant* prospects for pieces that could help this year’s team is out of touch with reality.

 

[mas0764]

It's Drury's job to go find those good value trades. Since I don't have a rolodex of all NHL GMs, I'm not really able to sit here and present to you all the offers. But those trades often exist since we see them again and again, the problem is there is no indication that that is the direction we are trying to go in.

Is it possible that sometimes no one wants a particular player? Sure.

But then again most on this board were shitting on Nils and pawning him off for nothing and shocker of shockers the Stars offered up a first rounder for him. Is Jones gonna bring back a first rounder? My guess is no because, dumb GMs being what they are, Dallas paid in part because of the fact that Nils was a former first rounder himself and that's all they see. Jones is close to Nils as a player with similar upside, though, and yeah, there is still a good top 4 defender in there worth developing. Pawning him off for 6 weeks of a rental is horrific value. If you can't get a first round pick for him in a loaded draft, what about in '24? What about for a stay at home defenseman type who is 22 or under like Jones is, who has top 4 upside and size? Etc.

Go get creative.

Dealing him with a first for Tarasenko is a losing value proposition. We can't afford to keep the player after this playoff run. And it's been shown again and again that high-end rentals don't push teams over the top. The best teams are the best teams and if a player is even available at the deadline that usually means they aren't as good anymore which is why the team that owns their rights is moving them anyway, they aren't good enough to be a long term piece anymore. Tarasenko is just that - he's older, coming off IR, and who knows how he will fit? It's a complete gamble with very minimal odds of paying out.

The better bet is, and always has been, eschewing paying high end rental costs. Add cheaply to fortify vulnerable weak spots that could be exploited by talented teams in the playoffs, but if you think you need to add "first line scorer" because your weak spot is "first line scoring," then you aren't a serious contender to begin with. Move on. Build through the draft.

Which is what we still need to be doing, because we cut off our rebuild too early and look at us now, we don't have enough top line scoring.

 

[Vitto79]

Trading Jones and/or Kravtsov for rentals is really, really poor use of them as assets. If you’re thinking is that there isn’t a place for them on this team, you move them for equivalent pieces with similar long term value or recoup futures. These types of moves never work out for the team making them, and almost always backfire.

Kravtsov should go for a other young player
LD?

I don’t see Jones in their long term plans

 

[McRanger92]

This team doesn’t score enough to have the goodrow/trocheck/vesey line AND a 4th line that kravtsov doesn’t fit on. It’s like they want to have a shitty 4th line so it doesn’t take away ice time from the other 3 lines.

All 3 guys on that 3rd line are on pace to score roughly 15 goals and 2 of them very well could be 4th liners by March 1st. Not sure what more youd expect.

 

[RGY]

This staff has been too dumb to properly develop a number of their assets so far so it wouldn’t be unprecedented.

Adding older players for one run hardly ever works as we have seen again and again. If they don’t like Zach Jones because they have a foolish infatuation with size on Defense, then he should be traded for a prospect swap or for an equal value draft pick like Nils was, so they can continue to stock their pipeline with value.




We have a desperate need for long term, cheap RWs. Of course there is a fit. The coach just insists on playing grit up in the lineup.

You act like having opinions is having “all the answers.” Yea I have my opinions and I will state them just like anyone else does. That’s not a crime.

If they want to trade Kravtsov, ok, but it should be for good value and not a rental. You can’t keep squandering long term assets into nothing…. Which we keep doing.

At the end of the day, trading 1st round picks or top prospects for rentals is just dumb. I don’t care for Drury but he at least seemed to understand that last deadline. Mid round picks for guys like Vatrano is how to do deadline business. Overpaying invaluable assets for 6 weeks of Tarasenko is not smart and hardly ever works. If you think you need a rental impact player to win the Cup then you aren’t good enough and history bears this out over and over and over. The Cup winners rarely are the ones who spend big.

Too dumb to properly develop prospects? Chytil is not coming along? Schneider? Miller? Kreider? I know, I know, they don’t get credit for Zibanejad. Certainly not Fox, right? Fox overcame all the stunting the organization was doing to prohibit him.

You are entitled to your opinion, but you peddle the same one over and over again. We get it you think this organization is an outlier, different than the majority of the NHL orgs and mishandles everything. You expect this team to draft the exact right prospects and for everything to go right from there on out. And if things start to go sideways then they should be able to do a “prospect swap” in the perfect deal where each team comes away equally successful, or at least the rangers come out on top, as if those perfect deals and trade partners are just waiting on the other end instantly when the situation presents itself. It is not realistic. And me replying to you that it is not realistic is somehow suppressing your opinion and telling you you’re not allowed to have one, even if it is a recycled one.

We have multiple needs and will always have needs in a salary cap system. Holes close and other ones open. That shouldn’t be the reason that we must hold onto Kravtsov if he isn’t progressing to where they want him to be OR they see a better opportunity that involves sending Kravstov out. You say they have squandered so many longterm assets. Who? Lias Andersson? Nils Lundkvist was turned into a 1st round pick in a deeper draft than his own draft year. A majority of their 1st round picks are playing on the NHL team. Is Morgan Barron the other one? Who are these longterm assets that they have “squandered”? Its dramatic and almost entitled to perceive the organization the way you do. Again as if they completely get things wrong compared to every other NHL franchise.

I never said trade the 2023 1sts. Haven’t even said trade the 2024 1st, yet. Teams add rental players all the time. Colorado literally just did it with Lekohnen among others. And while they kept Lekohnen, it forced them to let other players walk. Tampa added veterans that while they could keep for 2 playoff runs, they all departed shortly after. Stop acting like it doesn’t happen and it doesn’t help.

 

[McRanger92]

If the Rangers couldve traded Jones or Kravtsov for a useful, non-rental player it would've been done already. Other teams see Jones as an undersized bottom pair D who cant defend or beat out Libor Hajek or Ben Harpur for a roster spot. And Kravtsov looks like a guy who spent 2 unnecessary years in Russia and didnt improve very much at all. 10 points in 47 career games. Laf has double that this year and everyone things he's busting lol, what does that say about Kravy who is a full 2 years older.

I'm not saying they are going to sell these guys off for scraps at the deadline, but what do fans expect? Not every prospect works out with the team that drafted them and their value is only going to get lower. They are both RFAs this summer. They both have prospects hot on their heals that fit the long-term plan better. Do the math.

 

[mas0764]

Too dumb to properly develop prospects? Chytil is not coming along? Schneider? Miller? Kreider? I know, I know, they don’t get credit for Zibanejad. Certainly not Fox, right? Fox overcame all the stunting the organization was doing to prohibit him.

Hunter Gathers has addressed this point specifically and decidedly, I don't need to expound on it.

Yes, we stink at developing forwards and offensive ability in general. It would be no surprise that an offensive-defenseman isn't developed correctly here.

You are entitled to your opinion, but you peddle the same one over and over again.

What is it that you are doing?

It is not realistic.

It absolutely is realistic.

We have multiple needs and will always have needs in a salary cap system. Holes close and other ones open. That shouldn’t be the reason that we must hold onto Kravtsov if he isn’t progressing to where they want him to be OR they see a better opportunity that involves sending Kravstov out.

Ok, but then they need to get back more for him than a 6 week rental. That's not good enough.

If no one is offering more than that, then the better odds that you get something valuable out of Kravtsov is just holding your nose and trying again next year.

You say they have squandered so many longterm assets. Who? Lias Andersson? Nils Lundkvist was turned into a 1st round pick in a deeper draft than his own draft year.

Buch, DeAngelo who should have been traded way earlier, Kravtsov absolutely has been mishandled, now Jones apparently.

A majority of their 1st round picks are playing on the NHL team. Is Morgan Barron the other one? Who are these longterm assets that they have “squandered”? Its dramatic and almost entitled to perceive the organization the way you do. Again as if they completely get things wrong compared to every other NHL franchise.

The team hasn't won a Cup in 30 years. They do get a lot wrong that the good teams don't get wrong. You are underselling the team's obvious flaws to perceive them the way that YOU do.

I never said trade the 2023 1sts. Haven’t even said trade the 2024 1st, yet. Teams add rental players all the time. Colorado literally just did it with Lekohnen among others. And while they kept Lekohnen, it forced them to let other players walk. Tampa added veterans that while they could keep for 2 playoff runs, they all departed shortly after. Stop acting like it doesn’t and it doesn’t help.

And I never said don't rent, I said teams that spend big on pure rentals rarely win Cups.

And Colorado added Lekohnen who they promptly re-signed to a contract which is the exact scenario I just said was ok to spend a first round pick, when the guy is young enough to fit your core and to warrant being extended. It forced them to let other worse players walk, yes, I hope if we find a 24 year old top 6 player to add for a first round pick it would force us to move on from, say, Gauthier. Lehkonen is at 0.79 ppg for them so I'd say job well done.

The problem is we don't have the cap space to take on a player like that because we have so many average-to-poor-value contracts and not enough good-value ones.

 

[mas0764]

If the Rangers couldve traded Jones or Kravtsov for a useful, non-rental player it would've been done already.

I don't think that's necessarily true.

They gave Nils the beginning of a season, cut it off early and banished him to Hartford, and then traded him in the offseason for a first.

Could be a similar trajectory with Jones.

Other teams see Jones as an undersized bottom pair D who cant defend or beat out Libor Hajek or Ben Harpur for a roster spot.

I find that hard to believe because the same was said about Nils on this board. Jones was highly regarded not 6 months ago, in fact, everyone on this board was saying HE was the future and not Nils, so Nils had to go.

Then Jones got 20 NHL games and everyone decided he stinks.

The problem here is that the Rangers are deciding on the player based on physical attributes only and not really where he projects when he finishes developing, and that signaling absolutely trickles down to the fanbase at large, who sours on him because it's clear management has.

I don't believe for a second that the NHL has no use for a player like Jones, just like I didn't believe it with Nils.

And Kravtsov looks like a guy who spent 2 unnecessary years in Russia and didnt improve very much at all. 10 points in 47 career games. Laf has double that this year and everyone things he's busting lol, what does that say about Kravy who is a full 2 years older.

I'm not saying they are going to sell these guys off for scraps at the deadline, but what do fans expect? Not every prospect works out with the team that drafted them and their value is only going to get lower. They are both RFAs this summer. They both have prospects hot on their heals that fit the long-term plan better. Do the math.

Like I said, better to just keep trying to develop than pawn off for a rental.

 

[McRanger92]

I don't think that's necessarily true.

They gave Nils the beginning of a season, cut it off early and banished him to Hartford, and then traded him in the offseason for a first.

Could be a similar trajectory with Jones.



I find that hard to believe because the same was said about Nils on this board. Jones was highly regarded not 6 months ago, in fact, everyone on this board was saying HE was the future and not Nils, so Nils had to go.

Then Jones got 20 NHL games and everyone decided he stinks.

The problem here is that the Rangers are deciding on the player based on physical attributes only and not really where he projects when he finishes developing, and that signaling absolutely trickles down to the fanbase at large, who sours on him because it's clear management has.

I don't believe for a second that the NHL has no use for a player like Jones, just like I didn't believe it with Nils.



Like I said, better to just keep trying to develop than pawn off for a rental.

Drury getting a first for Nils is a homerun. He cant crack the Dallas lineup.

Jones and Kravtsov very well might be good players but when? They haven't looked like anything special in the opportunities they've been given. Again, no one is shoving them out the door but it's naive to think their development trumps the Rangers desire to get better for a playoff run. We are in a Cup window. Its an objective fact, even if you dont think they have a chance.

Also, not for nothing but if Kravtsov was so confident in his ability that he defied the organization twice to leave Hartford, shouldn't he be playing better?

 

[Vitto79]

Anychance Edmonton would move Broberg?
Doubt it

Ottawa has Motte , Watson and Holden as UFAs .