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Speculation: Roster Building Thread II (2022-23): The Puck is Prepared to be Mounted

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haohmaru said:
I'm not sure "unusual" is the right word - most of those teams were bottom feeders, got their 1OA, and put them right up top because they were immediately their best player. Lafreniere wasn't that on this team.

And, I'm 100% with you on the last sentence - I have never advocated for trading Lafreniere or giving up on him. He's been hard to watch, though, for the past month-month and a half.
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True. I meant "unusual" in that they kept guys like Chytil, Kakko, and Laf on the NHL roster despite not having space for them in the top six or the power play. I would have preferred to see them sent back to junior or even one of the international pro leagues to get those top line minutes/reps. It was clear after the first 9 games that neither Laf nor Kakko were ready for the NHL quite yet. They should have been given a list of things to work on and then sent somewhere where they can get the reps to work on those things. The team can't develop guys by playing them as passengers and then get upset when they don't know how to lead/drive play. It seems to have worked (fingers crossed) with Chytil, and Kakko seems to be turning a corner as well. Laf just seems a bit snake-bit this season. His shooting percentage is 11% lower than his career average. Kid needs that monkey ripped off his back in the worst way (another reason I miss Buchnevich, haha).
 
Bacon Artemi Bravo said:
There are many areas you could pick on Laffy and say he needs to improve...to say hands is one of them is all I need to hear to recognize that you're just a hater who doesn't actually analyze his game.
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When has he used his hands to show his talent???
I’m really not a “hater”
I even own his jersey

I haven’t seen any “hands” on display
 
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EdJovanovski said:
Also don't forget scoring has skyrocketed in recent years.
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That’s why Krav has 3 goals?
Hahahaha. Sorry , couldn’t help myself.
I stand by my take on this: these guys (including Krav) did not have the traditional treatment/usage high picks get. Expecting them to develop on the arc that those who DO get traditional handling for a high pick is just setting oneself up for disappointment. If Laf is still a third liner in two years at 23 (like Krav), it STILL isn’t a “death sentence” for his potential. Thats how young he is. How young they all are.
 
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EdJovanovski said:
Also don't forget scoring has skyrocketed in recent years.
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BTW, “scoring has skyrocketed“ is both vague and a huge overstatement. The NHL AVG was 10 goals a game (both teams combined) at its start. It was 6.3 last year. Since 2009 through last season the goals scored per game never varied by a full goal per game. And the last five years it hasn’t varied by more than 0.4 goals per game. so Basically 0.2 per team. That’s skyrocketing? 7% is the total change there For both teams per game.
soundofhockey.com

Data Dump: NHL goal scoring is up - Sound Of Hockey

We explore the the increase in NHL goal scoring across the league to find any insights or driving forces behind the increase.
soundofhockey.com soundofhockey.com
 
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haohmaru said:
Wings drafted 1OA over the last 30 years:

Last one was Yakupov (bust) through age 21 Goals / Assists

Yakupov 42 / 46 (3 seasons)
Hall 65 / 80 (3 seasons)
Kane 76 / 154 (3 seasons)
Ovechkin 98 / 100 (2 seasons!)
Nash 89 / 61 (3 seasons)
Kovalchuk 160 / 143 (4 seasons)

Lafreniere 36 / 34 (2.6 seasons)

Those are all 1st OA wings going back 30+ years through age 21. Lafreniere might not even do as "well" as Yakupov did and is nowhere near anyone else on that list.

Acting like we're out of our f***ing minds because we're concerned about what we've seen so far is the real "hot take". It's what history has shown us a 1OA wing should be and what we've actually got (so far). I'm a Rangers fan and certainly not hoping for anything other than him figuring it out but I'm not going to close my eyes and stick my head in the sand and pretend I'm looking at Hall or Nash or Ovechkin.
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Which of those players got the same usage as Laf their first two and a half seasons? I’ll ask it yet again: how do you expect a high pick to have the traditional development arc when the team is not bringing them along the way high picks are traditionally brought along? How is that a rational thought process?
If you cook a pork shoulder at 185 it takes a lot longer than cooking it at 285. Even if both shoulders are from the same hog.
 
bhamill said:
Which of those players got the same usage as Laf their first two and a half seasons? I’ll ask it yet again: how do you expect a high pick to have the traditional development arc when the team is not bringing them along the way high picks are traditionally brought along? How is that a rational thought process?
If you cook a pork shoulder at 185 it takes a lot longer than cooking it at 285. Even if both shoulders are from the same hog.
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Yakupov is nearly identical in ATOI, FYI.

And, as far as your "traditional" crap goes - let's say Edmonton had the Devils pick a couple of years ago. Are you knocking MacDavid, Drai, etc... down from the first line, or the PP, to develop Hughes? No. And to suggest otherwise is complete bullshit.

The players "ahead" of LaF should be ahead of LaF - Kreider scored 52 goals last year and is 2nd on the team this year. Who are you taking of the PP? Panarin? Fox? Maybe you can make a case for Trocheck but he's another center if Mika gets tossed and is one of the few right handed shots on the team. Mika? This team went to the ECF's last year - nobody is getting demoted for the sake of developing one player who has struggled all year.

The truth is Lafreniere got drafted to a good team which is completely abnormal for a 1OA and he still, somehow, is 5th or 6th in even strength ice time among forwards. He gets plenty of minutes - especially for how he is producing. 7 of his points are secondary assists.

The pork shoulder should be low and slow. Hopefully that works for Lafreniere as well.
 
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bhamill said:
That’s why Krav has 3 goals?
Hahahaha. Sorry , couldn’t help myself.
I stand by my take on this: these guys (including Krav) did not have the traditional treatment/usage high picks get. Expecting them to develop on the arc that those who DO get traditional handling for a high pick is just setting oneself up for disappointment. If Laf is still a third liner in two years at 23 (like Krav), it STILL isn’t a “death sentence” for his potential. Thats how young he is. How young they all are.
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I'll be a bit concerned if he's still producing at a 3rd line pace as a 23 year old. It might not be a "death sentence" but it would be a "depth sentence" (as far as his role in the league).
 
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haohmaru said:
Yakupov is nearly identical in ATOI, FYI.

And, as far as your "traditional" crap goes - let's say Edmonton had the Devils pick a couple of years ago. Are you knocking MacDavid, Drai, etc... down from the first line, or the PP, to develop Hughes? No. And to suggest otherwise is complete bullshit.

The players "ahead" of LaF should be ahead of LaF - Kreider scored 52 goals last year and is 2nd on the team this year. Who are you taking of the PP? Panarin? Fox? Maybe you can make a case for Trocheck but he's another center if Mika gets tossed and is one of the few right handed shots on the team. Mika? This team went to the ECF's last year - nobody is getting demoted for the sake of developing one player who has struggled all year.

The truth is Lafreniere got drafted to a good team which is completely abnormal for a 1OA and he still, somehow, is 5th or 6th in even strength ice time among forwards. He gets plenty of minutes - especially for how he is producing. 7 of his points are secondary assists.

The pork shoulder should be low and slow. Hopefully that works for Lafreniere as well.
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You are conflating me saying Laf is being brought along slower with me saying they should prioritize him. What I’m saying is it’s one or the other. You want his development curve sped up? He needs that increased responsibility and to be stuck with through his growing pains. (and I’m not saying it’s a guarantee) If we aren’t willing to do that, a decision which I actually also see as reasonable, then we can’t expect him to develop like those who are brought along that way.

at least we agree on BBQ, buddy! And hope for the same thing for Lafreniere.
 
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smoneil said:
I'll be a bit concerned if he's still producing at a 3rd line pace as a 23 year old. It might not be a "death sentence" but it would be a "depth sentence" (as far as his role in the league).
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I agree. The longer he goes, logically the more concerning it should be. But at 180 regular season games… I think we need to be patient.

Riche16 said:
Hank, Kreider and Fox

I stated in the jersey thread that I felt I was jinxing Laf
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Hahahaha.
 
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bhamill said:
I agree. The longer he goes, logically the more concerning it should be. But at 180 regular season games… I think we need to be patient.
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Definitely. The thing that amazes me is how often the pattern repeats. When Chytil was 21, half the posters here wanted to cut him for nothing. Kakko a year ago--same thing. Now they are starting to come into their own. Laf is just 21. He's already shown flashes. He'll get there.
 
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McRanger92 said:
In the flat cap world development needs to happen at the NHL level. Luckily for the Rangers, it's going pretty well. despite the narrative. Only one of the u23 guys on the roster doesnt look good right now, but he's just struggling like Kakko & Fil did last year, theyll all be fine.
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Yep. And I’d argue it’s only the hardcore fans who are really troubled and surprised by the “slow” development. I get caught it up in it too. But we all have to occasionally step back and remember it’s still early days.
 
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RangerBoy said:
Elliotte Friedman talked about Toews and Meier today on Marek's show. He said some teams told him Toews will cost a 2nd or 3rd with double retention needed. Elliotte speculated Meier could be the first guy to go. SJ will allow a team to negotiate with Meier if they find a deal they like. It doesn’t sound like SJ is looking for a rental deal for Meier. $10M qualifying offer. Marek was off today. Marek's producer hosted the show. Matt Marchese. He said Meier could be making more AAV than the $10M QO.

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Makes sense from SJ’s perspective. Trade him with a new deal agreed, he brings back a much better return. I’m sure that’s their first choice.
 
bhamill said:
You are conflating me saying Laf is being brought along slower with me saying they should prioritize him. What I’m saying is it’s one or the other. You want his development curve sped up? He needs that increased responsibility and to be stuck with through his growing pains. (and I’m not saying it’s a guarantee) If we aren’t willing to do that, a decision which I actually also see as reasonable, then we can’t expect him to develop like those who are brought along that way.

at least we agree on BBQ, buddy! And hope for the same thing for Lafreniere.
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I don't have an issue with what you're saying then. I think he had his best shift of the year tonight in the 2nd period, so there's that.
 
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haohmaru said:
I don't have an issue with what you're saying then. I think he had his best shift of the year tonight in the 2nd period, so there's that.
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I get it. There’s a lot of opinions on here, hard to keep perfect track of who has said what. Hahaha.
 
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