Speculation: Roster Building Thread II (2022-23): The Puck is Prepared to be Mounted

[Alluckks]

yeah I would, I think it would be worth the upgrade for this season plus another 1st in this draft would be nice.

Something like that may come down to if the front office thinks Othmann is ready to play next season

 

[DanielBrassard]

>7M in deadline cap space.

Anyone who thinks they should look long term, myself included, is doomed to be disappointed.

It's hard to look long term when your best forwards are 31, 31, 29, and 29. And are all locked into long term contracts. They kind of have to be aggressive in the near term.

 

[cheech70]

I mean if Lafs former agent wants him...what would she pay?

 

[Savant]

I mean if Lafs former agent wants him...what would she pay?

Three way deal with whoever wants Horvat; Horvat would be strictly a Rangers rental so doesn’t make sense. I could see Garland being involved; maybe (but hopefully not) Boeser too; but Vancouver is pretty barren, their change of scenery guy is probably Podkolzin

 

[DanielBrassard]

Lafreniere for their 1st which is top-x protected? Otherwise I don't see a fit really.

 

[effen]

After seeing chytil and Kakkos be real NHL players as they got man strength it'd be pretty out of character to let Lafreniere go before he did the same.

Theyre taking a very long term view on the kids - long runway. It's the fans who have no patience. Ironic.

 

[Alluckks]

Lafreniere for their 1st which is top-x protected? Otherwise I don't see a fit really.

Dach went for picks 13 and 66; Laf was touted more highly and has done more at an NHL than Dach when Dach was traded. Vancouver pick is projected be ~9 right now, but that could easily end up worse by years end. I understand they'd want their pick to be lottery protected, but there'd have to be something quite extra attached.

 

[McRanger92]

After seeing chytil and Kakkos be real NHL players as they got man strength it'd be pretty out of character to let Lafreniere go before he did the same.

Theyre taking a very long term view on the kids - long runway. It's the fans who have no patience. Ironic.

100% spot on. It’s the defenseman who are on the fast track

 

[DanielBrassard]

Dach went for picks 13 and 66; Laf was touted more highly and has done more at an NHL than Dach when Dach was traded. Vancouver pick is projected be ~9 right now, but that could easily end up worse by years end. I understand they'd want their pick to be lottery protected, but there'd have to be something quite extra attached.

I think his value is slightly higher than Dach when he was traded so the 9th pick is probably pretty close. 13+66 is equivalent to like 11 so 9 straight up seems about right.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Why? To bolster a one trick pony group that is iffy to even make the playoffs?

I'm not trying to be a dick or anything... I just haven't seen one thing from this group to make me think they're a deadline trade away from anything other than "slightly better" mediocrity

You’re right, they’re a coach away

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

I mean if Lafs former agent wants him...what would she pay?

I’m sorry but some loser who has a podcast with 10 listeners isn’t a reliable source. I’m not attacking you so don’t take it personally. That guy is Fake News.

 

[Alluckks]

I think his value is slightly higher than Dach when he was traded so the 9th pick is probably pretty close. 13+66 is equivalent to like 11 so 9 straight up seems about right.

Laf's metrics are quite a bit better than slightly when compared to Dach's pre-trade. Look at TOI compared to point production, let alone one of the most important aspects of even strength goals. Laf also still nearly a full year younger. Was touted higher and drafted higher. In short, I disagree.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Laf's metrics are quite a bit better than slightly when compared to Dach's pre-trade. Look at TOI compared to point production, let alone one of the most important aspects of even strength goals. Laf also still nearly a full year younger. Was touted higher and drafted higher. In short, I disagree.

They look very similar through their 1st 3 years. The big difference is Lafreniere has shot at a much higher rate than Dach which was never going to be sustained.

 

[Alluckks]

They look very similar through their 1st 3 years. The big difference is Lafreniere has shot at a much higher rate than Dach which was never going to be sustained.

Laf has produced more with much less ice time, is nearly a full year younger, and was touted as higher going in anyway.

 

[gravey9]

100% spot on. It’s the defenseman who are on the fast track

I agree wholeheartedly. You really won't know what they are until they are 24-25. To me Laffy is showing more than the vast majority of busts that ever played for the Rangers. He's already not that. But will he ever be an elite player? That's what we don't know.

Beyond Kakko (21) and Chytil (23) who are very much still developing... if you look at other comparables just on the Rangers, Laffy is more than holding his own.

In terms of even strength points, last season Laffy outpaced all of Kreider, Zibanejad and Panarin at same age. Panarin wasn't even in the NHL...

It is insane how impatient some people are with these kids. The big difference between the last year or so and 2 years ago, we don't have JD on the PR rounds constantly preaching patience. In fact, we don't hear anything from Drury at all.

I will say this re: development. As Ben Harpur has proven, if you have the physical aspects of the game down and your brain can handle the NHL speed, you can learn to play a relatively safe way and survive. That makes a certain base level of development easier for talented D than talented forwards. No one is paying attention to your offensive stats as a young D if you are solidifying your own end. If anything, outside of the Adam Fox's of the world, I get a bit worried when a young D man gets a lot of points but is a liability in their own end. I just see a D who was developed backwards and may end up having a Brady Skjei esque career.

But as a forward, it's a different story. It's quite a bit harder. You have to be responsible for the play behind you and in front of you. Learning the all around game can take years and as you try to learn that in the NHL fans are staring at your point stats.

So, as a player, you either have to cheat to get your points which may lose you ice time with your coaches or you have to focus on playing a more conservative game and sacrifice point totals. Kakko and Laffy were forced into that latter role due to the Rangers rushing their build and due to the team competing and having vet players who play 80% of the PP minutes.

I personally think Chytil has tended to cheat at times at ES on his d responsibilities but his wheels make up for many of his mistakes. Still there are reasons why he has been stuck on the 3rd line and some of that is his D zone coverage and faceoff percentage. He might be the perfect center for Panarin, but he's still too unreliable in his own zone.

If this organization was okay with Laffy playing terrible D and cheating and if we put him on the PP, his numbers would look way better. But they're not doing that. So, all the stat watching is super unfair to him.

Is Laffy having some issues gaining separation at times, yup. Is that a speed issue, maybe. But I also see a guy who is maybe not yet suited for all the stops and starts required of an NHL winger. I see a kid who might actually be a better center. I see a kid with very quick hands, who would be better on the dot that Fil. I see a kid who sees the ice well, who does just fine once his legs are moving. I see a kid who is very good at zone entry when he has possession. And i see a very sturdy player who can D up when he needs to. I would love to see him play the middle at some point in his career. But as of now, he's stuck on the right side of the puck at ES and he's not often in super offensive roles and positions. That is more worrisome than his point totals in many ways.

 

[Lion Hound]

Elliotte Friedman was discussing the 2023 draft with Jeff Marek. 32T podcast. Teams are reluctant to trade first round picks in this draft. Teams are saying they will not pay the high rental prices other teams paid in previous years. Elliotte brought up the Giroux, Chiarot & Savard rental trades which involved first round picks for rentals.

The Rangers have two first round picks in this draft. Drury better not trade a first rounder for a rental.

I think 70% of the board would agree with this. I certainly do. The cap crush is too severe with very important RFA’s impending at the end of the season.

Not sure about the fan base outside of HF. Listening to convos on the train, at the Garden. On the Facebook pages and on Twitter. Too many fans that are all over the Kane stuff. The Canucks rumors. Selling important assets for 20 games and a playoff run is where this club got into trouble for decades...just not the right time.

Not to mention. Currently this club is a wildcard team I’m a super tough division. Are they ready to make a play at this stage?

Also I’m not convinced this is a sellers market. Seems like an over abundance of “rentals“ and Most of the big clubs are capped out. Drury has a strong hand here. Play it out and wait for the deal.

 

[haohmaru]

The Rangers aren't trading or giving up on LaFreniere. That's a decision that would bite them in the ass for the next decade and a half and they've surely had enough of those. This place. Sheesh.

 

[Alluckks]

The Canucks media tweeting out about Laf is so nauseating for no other reason than we have to deal with paint chip ingestion trade proposals out of that fan group again

A billion and a half JT Miller quips and BS out of them, usually blindly following their media blurbs who are blatantly being used as tools of their own front office, only for Miller to re-sign and not be worth a single piece now of the "rumored" Chytil + Lundqvist + 1st offer now.

 

[Lion Hound]

The Rangers aren't trading or giving up on LaFreniere. That's a decision that would bite them in the ass for the next decade and a half and they've surely had enough of those. This place. Sheesh.

Certainly hope not.


Going back 20 years there’s only one GM that traded a #1 overall in his 3rd season with the club. That was Doug Armstrong of the Blues when he traded Erik Johnson for Shattenkirk, Chris Stewart and a 2nd round pick.

What was different about that scenario? Erik Johnson flipped a golf cart and tore both of his ACL’s. He had surgery on both and missed the entire season. In addition the Blues had just traded their Captain Erik Brewer. They failed to make the playoffs, and were obviously not happy with the direction.

 

[bhamill]

If Vancouver offered their 2023 1st (top 3 protected) + Horvat (would be pure rental for us) for Lafreniere; would you consider it? Close? Modifications?

Nope. Not when there is any chance the pick is not this year. And even then if we get a top 5 or 10 pick and he inevitably doesn’t bust out into stardom within 150 games I’m going to have listen to this board whine and want to trade him, ad nauseum. Hahaha. And plus have to watch Lafreniere come into his own in Van next year.
No THANKS. Hahahaha.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I’m sorry but some loser who has a podcast with 10 listeners isn’t a reliable source. I’m not attacking you so don’t take it personally. That guy is Fake News.

First it was Montréal because Jeff Gorton, who drafted him, is their GM.

Now it's Vancouver because Emilie Castonguay, who was his agent, is their AGM.

In a few weeks it will be Arizona because André Tourigny, who coached him at the WJC, is their head coach.

 

[Alluckks]

First it was Montréal because Jeff Gorton, who drafted him, is their GM.

Now it's Vancouver because Emilie Castonguay, who was his agent, is their AGM.

In a few weeks it will be Arizona because André Tourigny, who coached him at the WJC, is their head coach.

For some writers, clicks pay the bills

 

[mas0764]

Just a completely needless loss. Look at that whole offseason after the bubble. Blame Tom Wilson & Dolan all you want, but a series of horrendous moves by Gorton & Davidson is the real reason they were fired.

Fast/Staal/Henrik all moved for cap space, only for it to be given to DeAngelo (buyout 5 games in), Lemiuex (trade request), Georgiev (malcontent) & Jack Johnson (need I say more). Not to mention we had immediate rumors of locker room issues. That doesnt happen under Henrik & Staal's watch.

True, in retrospect that was a really bad offseason.

Georgiev should have been dealt for whatever and Hank should have been kept as the 1-2 punch with Shesty. Of course Hank still develops the heart condition and retires, but based on the info you had at the time, keeping Hank was the right move.

DeAngelo could have been monetized and should have been, just like Buch, way earlier or with way more foresight. He was coming off a what, 60 point season? Or 60 point pace? I have news for you: There were buyers willing to part with firsts for a 24 year old 60 point defenseman. I don't give a shit about his attitude, the Stars just gave us a first in a loaded draft for Nils Lundkvist. DeAngelo was moveable.

Lemieux is eh, he was at least at one point an intriguing bottom liner with third line upside, but I have never understood how this team can keep signing Jack Johnsons and Patrik Nemeth and even Brendan Smith and have them all turn to garbage, but then go elsewhere and be serviceable. Staal too.

 

[IDvsEGO]

What’s the difference between this years team and last years pre-deadline? If anything we are more well rounded and not getting historically good goaltending. I don’t want to trade any firsts but this seems dramatic.

I look at the team right now, and we're winning each game in different ways, its not igor carrying us every night, we're out scoring teams at 5v5, we're not relying on a power play.

Our issue is our defense, and a better player to play with schneider or even someone to let trouba get healthy would be huge...

The Rangers need a bottom line forward, and a LD, and i think if we get healthy at the right time we have a good chance to get real hot.

 

[mas0764]

If Vancouver offered their 2023 1st (top 3 protected) + Horvat (would be pure rental for us) for Lafreniere; would you consider it? Close? Modifications?

No.

I look at the team right now, and we're winning each game in different ways, its not igor carrying us every night, we're out scoring teams at 5v5, we're not relying on a power play.

Our issue is our defense, and a better player to play with schneider or even someone to let trouba get healthy would be huge...

The Rangers need a bottom line forward, and a LD, and i think if we get healthy at the right time we have a good chance to get real hot.

We shouldn't have traded a first last year either, even if it meant missing out on Copp.