Speculation: Roster Building Thread II (2022-23): The Puck is Prepared to be Mounted

[Deleted member 23124]

Buchnevich and Duclair were both good picks. 3rd rounders instead of 1sts, but we developed Buch into a PPG player. The fact that we traded Buch doesn't negate the work that we did with him. We traded Duclair before we had a chance to really develop him, but he managed to turn into a 31 goal scorer, so at least we were right in identifying the talent.

With the way things go around here, I doubt Duclair would have gotten the ice time to score 31 goals in a season.

 

[GAGLine]

With the way things go around here, I doubt Duclair would have gotten the ice time to score 31 goals in a season.

Maybe not, but keep in mind that Duclair was 26 years old when he did that and on his 6th team. By the time Kakko, Laf and Chytil hit 26 (and assuming they are still here), they should be playing much more prominent roles.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I don’t see the need for Horvat unless you’re planning to boot Trocheck or Chytil down to 4C or onto the wing

I hope this team just lets Chytil cook, don’t f*** with things for 3 months of Bo Horvat

 

[eco's bones]

These are all of Drury's draft picks:

View attachment 626946

Of the 2021s, Lamb, Boyko and Kempf seem to have stagnated or regressed. I hoped Korczak would stick in the AHL or at least the ECHL, but he's doing well in the WHL. Maybe he just needs another year to be physically ready for the AHL. Even though he was eligible to play in the AHL, it's still his D+2 season, when most CHL players are still playing in the CHL.

Othmann has done a lot of good things, but I'm not completely sold on his potential yet. Grubbe has rebounded nicely from a bad injury, but he'll need to continue to improve. Vaisanen and Chmelar are both showing well in the WJC so far, but it's only 1 game, and it's a long way from there to a spot in the NHL.

For the 2022s, we don't have much yet to go on. We'll see how Sykora looks in the WJC. BOB has been doing well so far in the OHL and Laba has had a surprising start, both in the NCAA and by his inclusion on the US WJC team (even if he doesn't get to play). With the other 3, there's really nothing to get excited about yet. Barbashev has been decent and the other two are younger guys in college programs, so they may have to wait their turn.

2021 wasn't the greatest draft and 2022 didn't have a lot of depth and past the first three rounds kind of turned into an overage draft. Not sure we're going to get a lot out of either. Othmann does look pretty good though. I think Chmelar and Grubbe have progressed this year. It's hard to say on some others. Lamb hasn't done much but Minnesota U. is a top notch hockey program. If he were playing for a lesser program he'd probably be getting more and better ice time.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

I don’t see the need for Horvat unless you’re planning to boot Trocheck or Chytil down to 4C or onto the wing

I hope this team just lets Chytil cook, don’t f*** with things for 3 months of Bo Horvat

Honestly, at this point in my life I've accepted that the Rangers will be tied to every trade rumor. A big market team, who's always had the propensity to spend, so it's easy for any agent or rumor monger to attach them to some sort of player/potential deal. Horvat would have made sense before Trocheck fit the lineup so well (and him and Kreider have unlocked the third line), and Chytil has emerged as a legitimate 2C.

We're seeing the beginnings of the 'kids line' showing they could carry this offense as the premier pieces. I just don't see how a huge piece in the top 6 that plants itself in our future makes sense right now.

 

[McRanger92]

I like the group the Rangers have much more than the pre-deadline team last year, so we've got that going for us. If Kravtstov can find a home as Mika & Panarin's caddy on that line, theres a good shot we can keep both firsts as it would allow Drury to focus on fortifying the bottom lines with a Motte type.

We NEED another NHL defenseman but we know the big guys can carry the load in the playoffs. Just getting a guy who can take a regular shift and PK would do wonders. I like @RangerBoy 's Kulikov suggestion. Edmundson & Gavrikov as well but youd be getting into 1st round pick territory there. I do think when push comes to shove the Rangers deal a 1st at the deadline, but not both.

NO to Kane unless its for cheap, but even then I dont see a real fit.

 

[SA16]

Edmundson is bad. Why would we try to trade for him?

 

[Deleted member 23124]

I don’t see the need for Horvat unless you’re planning to boot Trocheck or Chytil down to 4C or onto the wing

I hope this team just lets Chytil cook, don’t f*** with things for 3 months of Bo Horvat

I agree....however, I suspect Dolan is sitting back chomping at the bit.

Honestly, at this point in my life I've accepted that the Rangers will be tied to every trade rumor.

This has been true for decades.

 

[McRanger92]

Edmundson is bad. Why would we try to trade for him?

We need a big defenseman with experience. Dont care what the analytics say when the past 3 Cup winners have had Jack Johnson, Luke Schenn & Zach Bogosian taking regular shifts in the Finals

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

We need a big defenseman with experience. Dont care what the analytics say when the past 3 Cup winners have had Jack Johnson, Luke Schenn & Zach Bogosian taking regular shifts in the Finals

We already have one of those guys in Jacob Trouba. If your only goal is to go for a "big guy with experience" you're not going to target the right guy.

Go for a guy who is a good hockey player first, size and experience comes after that.

Also, the whole "Cup winning experience" is overrated. I'd take pre-2018 Nicklas Bäckström over a f*** ton of players who won cups for instance. Blais won a cup, who cares? Goodrow won 2. Good for him. That's not what makes him a good fit.

Adam McQuaid didn't bring us a cup. Neither did Victor Stålberg or Jarret Stoll.

 

[McRanger92]

We already have one of those guys in Jacob Trouba. If your only goal is to go for a "big guy with experience" you're not going to target the right guy.

Go for a guy who is a good hockey player first, size and experience comes after that.

Also, the whole "Cup winning experience" is overrated. I'd take pre-2018 Nicklas Bäckström over a f*** ton of players who won cups for instance. Blais won a cup, who cares? Goodrow won 2. Good for him. That's not what makes him a good fit.

Adam McQuaid didn't bring us a cup. Neither did Victor Stålberg or Jarret Stoll.

Give me an example of who we should trade for on D then. The rest of this post is you arguing with yourself.

 

[Kodiak]

Vince Mercogliano discussed Jones on his recent podcast. Scouts and people around the Rangers are concerned with his ability to clear the net front and do physically demanding things required of NHL defensemen. Size is an issue. Jones needs to play in an offensive role and the Rangers don't have a spot for him with Fox on the team. Lundkvist was in the same boat. He is not suited for a bottom six role. The size is an issue. The Rangers aren’t getting a 1st and conditional 4th which can become a 3rd for Jones.

The cost of a rental D is high. Savard went for a 1st. Chiarot went for a 1st. That was an awful deal for Florida. Gavrikov is the guy this year.

Kulikov is an experienced NHL D. Verbeek got Kulikov for free. Kulikov would be a good fit for the Rangers 6th D role. He can't be very expensive to acquire in a trade. $2.25M cap.

Trading Jones for an experienced LD signed to a modest contract beyond this season would be ideal. Does that player even exist?

Would Columbus swap Gavrikov for Jones and a non-1st or 2nd round pick? Columbus wants to re-sign him. The Rangers rent the player for the playoffs. Will teams will tossing around 1st round picks in 2023 this spring for rentals?

Would the Blues be interested in re-acquiring Blais? Barbashev is also a group III after this season. The latter has a higher cap hit. $2,250,000. Barbashev had a breakout season in 21-22 but his production has dropped to his previous season levels. He can play the wing(more left than right) and in the middle. He can kill penalties. He could be injury insurance if Chytil gets hurt. Gallant can use him in different roles. The Rangers can put him with Panarin and Zibanejad. It would be nice if Gallant just leaves Kravtsov on that line for more than a few periods. Barbashev with Trocheck and Kreider. Other players drop in the lineup. Goodrow, Vesey would play the role the Rangers signed him for but Vesey hasn’t been terrible playing up in the lineup. The Rangers would be taking on $750,000. Would the Rangers be interested in adding money? They would still have $1M in cap savings from the Reaves trade to use on another acquisition. Reaves is at $1.75M. $750,000 difference between Blais and Barbashev. The Blues change the mix of their club. They get a player they know very well who can add some energy and grit into their lineup. The Rangers haven't seen the energy and grit from Blais. The Blues are a team which isn’t interested in a rebuild, retool or reset. They have some key free agents coming up. ROR and Tarasenko. ROR looks like he is done. He was never the greatest skater but he was effective. Tarasenko can still shoot the puck. Before Doug Armstrong is forced to make a trade which he doesn't want to make, he tries a small move to get his team going. Blais for Barbashev. There aren’t many players Armstrong can trade to deliver a wake up call. He has too many players signed to long term contracts. Some players he doesn't want to trade. The Blues can't really add significant money. Blais for Barbashev.

On a recent podcast(32T or Marek show),Elliotte Friedman said Edmonton was interested in Reaves. On a recent podcast, Seravalli said Edmonton is looking to add another element in their bottom six. Edmonton has money issues. What did Holland offer the Rangers for Reaves? Edmonton was interested in Georgiev but they wanted to send money back to the Rangers. Blais would bring another element to the Oilers.

Vancouver? They have Travis Dermott at $1.5M who is a serviceable D. Would they swap Dermott for Blais?

$1.5M isn’t a lot of money but $1.5M is a lot of money on the Rangers. Motte at $1.35M would be a better player than Blais.

This is the type of caveman thinking that I hope we can get away from. The third pairing tends to get pinned in its own zone and give up goals. Their solution is apparently going to be to bring in another defensive defenseman in the hopes of stabilizing the third pairing defensively. But the problem with that is that the third pairing is still going to get pinned in their zone and give up goals because the new acquisition will also be unable to transition the puck up ice. Even good defensive defensemen tend to give up goals if they are pinned in their zone long enough. Think of Staal and Girardi in the late stages of their careers. They were still good players in terms of defending, but after a few times chipping the puck off the glass and giving up possession, they wear down and make mistakes.

If you look at the analytics for the defensive pairings this year, Schneider performed better with Jones than he did with Hajek or with Harpur. The solution on the third pairing is to help them stay out of their own zone more often, which means a partner that can aid in the transition.

 

[bhamill]

I mean, a HOF player having a career best year isn’t a fluke. An aberration, sure, I guess. The guy was a HOF player and all the stars aligned to have a best year. The guy proved he was capable of putting up star numbers year after year. As for ‘pacing’ I’m generally not a fan either such as Boeser being a 30 goal scorer because he’s ‘paced’ for it once or twice. A HOF talent scoring 50 plus a few times and pacing for it is a different story. He showed for near a decade he was capable of dropping it year after year.

If McDavid averages 110 points a year, then one year goes off and hits 140 or 150, are we calling that a HOF player having a career year or fluke. To me, a fluke is luck. Selanne was a great…

Having a career best year (by FAR) as a rookie? Sure it is. I think the issue here is people taking what I'm saying as implying that the season was pure luck. That's not my position at all. He was a great hockey player, deserving of the HOF. But name one other great hockey player that scored 50% more goals in his rookie year than any other year of his career? (And by far the most points of his career. 132. He only broke 100, staying under 110, two more times and hit 90 two times.) It doesn't happen. Not McDavid, not Gretzky, not Lemueix, not Crosby and I'm sure it wont be the case with Bedard. It's a complete aberation, since people find "fluke" unseemly. Hahaha. That is not to say he didn't deserve the season he had just that it is not an accurate indicator of his career. It's an outlier, an aberration.
I'm gonna just let it go at this point, I think we all agree he was a super hockey player.

 

[McRanger92]

This is the type of caveman thinking that I hope we can get away from. The third pairing tends to get pinned in its own zone and give up goals. Their solution is apparently going to be to bring in another defensive defenseman in the hopes of stabilizing the third pairing defensively. But the problem with that is that the third pairing is still going to get pinned in their zone and give up goals because the new acquisition will also be unable to transition the puck up ice. Even good defensive defensemen tend to give up goals if they are pinned in their zone long enough. Think of Staal and Girardi in the late stages of their careers. They were still good players in terms of defending, but after a few times chipping the puck off the glass and giving up possession, they wear down and make mistakes.

If you look at the analytics for the defensive pairings this year, Schneider performed better with Jones than he did with Hajek or with Harpur. The solution on the third pairing is to help them stay out of their own zone more often, which means a partner that can aid in the transition.

Opponents will be salivating at the thought of Zac Jones on our 3rd pair in the playoffs. He cant stand up to the physicality of the NHL in that role when he's being blocked on the power play by Fox. Id like to see Robertson get a chance sooner than later, but they are going to trade for a defenseman that probably a lot of posters are going to claim sucks but in actuality will be just fine for the role.

 

[RGY]

Artemi, Mika, Trouba, Kreider, Goodrow... I mean that's some pretty solid veteran leadership. I don't have a problem adding depth pieces to our veteran guys, but this team does not need Patrick Kane. And I highly doubt in this financial climate there is going to be a big move on the table that is going to help them a) push for a Cup or b) be a long term fit/solution.

You seem to believe that we "have to" make a move because guys are on ELC and we need to capitalize on the moment.... well you realize that we will be looking at potentially 2 ELC guys to mix in with vets like Laffy, Kakko, Key, Fox, Shesty, etc... if we don't trade these two picks.

There's a difference of opinion about whether we have to make a move. I think not making a move would help these guys have to pull up their britches. At the very least, it would be a great learning experience and they would still be a legitimate threat.

I disagree. Again, it is very contingent on where they stand at the deadline. If they are in a secure playoff spot, they should be making a move for a top 6 forward AND a depth forward. A Tyler Motte or similar player and then there is this potential list to choose from:

Kane
Meier
Couture
Tarasenko
RoR (probably more suited for the 3rd line)
Larkin
Lindholm
Horvat

There are options to make this team very deep and unmanageable in a postseason run. They had their “learning experience” last year when they went to the ECF. Time to push. I agree with @bobbop and others advocacy of trading the 2024 1st round pick as opposed to either of the 2023 1st round picks.

 

[Avery16]

Delete

 

[bhamill]

I disagree. Again, it is very contingent on where they stand at the deadline. If they are in a secure playoff spot, they should be making a move for a top 6 forward AND a depth forward. A Tyler Motte or similar player and then there is this potential list to choose from:

Kane
Meier
Couture
Tarasenko
RoR (probably more suited for the 3rd line)
Larkin
Lindholm
Horvat

There are options to make this team very deep and unmanageable in a postseason run. They had their “learning experience” last year when they went to the ECF. Time to push. I agree with @bobbop and others advocacy of trading the 2024 1st round pick as opposed to either of the 2023 1st round picks.

If we could find a way to get either that bastard Meier or Larkin and KEEP him, I'd be on board. But I have NO idea in which universe that might be possible. As rentals, I'd hate giving up even the '24 first rounder, but depending what we look like approaching the deadline, my outlook could change. I mean, I think '23 is an AWFUL year to give up a first, and although I think it's a terrible practice in general, sometimes you need to go for it. But for f***'s sake dont trade both...

 

[Raspewtin]

We need a big defenseman with experience. Dont care what the analytics say when the past 3 Cup winners have had Jack Johnson, Luke Schenn & Zach Bogosian taking regular shifts in the Finals

Now do the rest of Colorado and Tampas D v.s. ours.

Zach Bogosian isn't bad, Luke Schenn played less than half of his team's games in a very diminished capacity, and Johnson was the 6th D on a D-Corps that were constantly on a 5v5 powerplay. We don't have the D depth to ice a bad defenseman, and even if we did, we shouldn't.

 

[Bruner4329]

Just draft the next Dom Moore and Jesper Fast with those 2 first round picks. They do better at drafting 4th liners than guys who can score and be 1st line forwards. The last 1st line forward the Rangers drafted that actually made the NHL and stayed was Kreider. Lias Andersson wanted out, McIlrath stunk, Lunkvist wanted a trade cause he was not handed a spot. At least Chytil did not request a trade and worked hard in the AHL and worked on his English.

too early to determine Lafy and Kakko As top line talent

View attachment 626917

Lias Anderson was a wasted pick from Day 1. Soft player with no heart that translated into a bust. Last I saw he had something like 7 or 8 goals lifetime with an incredibly high minus count something like -31. Just not a good player let alone top draft pick. This was a wasted opportunity for Rangers.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Lias Anderson was a wasted pick from Day 1. Soft player with no heart that translated into a bust. Last I saw he had something like 7 or 8 goals lifetime with an incredibly high minus count something like -31. Just not a good player let alone top draft pick. This was a wasted opportunity for Rangers.

Andersson is still in the AHL with the LA Kings. im shocked he did not request another trade yet or went back to Sweden.

 

[McRanger92]

Now do the rest of Colorado and Tampas D v.s. ours.

Zach Bogosian isn't bad, Luke Schenn played less than half of his team's games in a very diminished capacity, and Johnson was the 6th D on a D-Corps that were constantly on a 5v5 powerplay. We don't have the D depth to ice a bad defenseman, and even if we did, we shouldn't.

Ok then who should they acquire for a reasonable cost on D? The only place Zac Jones is taking a regular shift in a playoff top 6 is fantasyland. They need to add someone

 

[Kodiak]

Opponents will be salivating at the thought of Zac Jones on our 3rd pair in the playoffs. He cant stand up to the physicality of the NHL in that role when he's being blocked on the power play by Fox. Id like to see Robertson get a chance sooner than later, but they are going to trade for a defenseman that probably a lot of posters are going to claim sucks but in actuality will be just fine for the role.

Do you believe that Colorado would have lost last year if Sam Girard was healthy and playing? Jones is a similar type of player. They won with Jack Johnson as the replacement, and I have a hard time believing that putting Jack Johnson in over anyone is a net positive.

 

[kovazub94]

2021 wasn't the greatest draft and 2022 didn't have a lot of depth and past the first three rounds kind of turned into an overage draft. Not sure we're going to get a lot out of either. Othmann does look pretty good though. I think Chmelar and Grubbe have progressed this year. It's hard to say on some others. Lamb hasn't done much but Minnesota U. is a top notch hockey program. If he were playing for a lesser program he'd probably be getting more and better ice time.

If you start from the thinking that going forward the Rangers will mostly need to figure out how to fill out their bottom parts of the roster with cheap options then it’s mostly positive seeing how these Drury picks are performing. Excluding Othmann I really like seeing whole bunch of the rest able to generate shots and have a pretty decent points total in the CHL or college that indicates a development progress on track to becoming NHLers but WITHOUT expecting them to be offensive producers when they get there. Anything extra will be a bonus.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

This is the type of caveman thinking that I hope we can get away from. The third pairing tends to get pinned in its own zone and give up goals. Their solution is apparently going to be to bring in another defensive defenseman in the hopes of stabilizing the third pairing defensively. But the problem with that is that the third pairing is still going to get pinned in their zone and give up goals because the new acquisition will also be unable to transition the puck up ice. Even good defensive defensemen tend to give up goals if they are pinned in their zone long enough. Think of Staal and Girardi in the late stages of their careers. They were still good players in terms of defending, but after a few times chipping the puck off the glass and giving up possession, they wear down and make mistakes.

If you look at the analytics for the defensive pairings this year, Schneider performed better with Jones than he did with Hajek or with Harpur. The solution on the third pairing is to help them stay out of their own zone more often, which means a partner that can aid in the transition.

The issue is that none of the 3 dmen you mentioned are the answer right now and especially in playoffs, not who played better in a regular season game with who.

 

[Raspewtin]

Ok then who should they acquire for a reasonable cost on D? The only place Zac Jones is taking a regular shift in a playoff top 6 is fantasyland. They need to add someone

yeah and it shouldn't be Edmundson who is bad and expensive. that's all i'm really saying.