Speculation: Roster Building Thread II (2022-23): The Puck is Prepared to be Mounted

[GAGLine]

fair enough. what do you think Nyqvist would cost?

We would need Columbus to retain, but I can't see the price being more than a 2nd and a B prospect.

 

[mas0764]

They're not late bloomers. They're 21 years old. They're producing right now despite basically no meaningful special teams time, and on most nights barely any meaningful ATOI at all. We both have been saying this now for months. If they were on PP1 they'd be 3rd and 4th in points on the team right now maybe higher.

Look who's above them in points on the team, it's all the guys on PP1 and somehow Goodrow because he's being force-fed minutes lately. But what stands out is the disparity between Laf, Kakko, and Chytil and those guys is all PP points. Trocheck is exhibit A, he has 12 PP points. 7 of his goals are PP goals. Take those away. Laf has more EV points. You're telling me Laf couldn't put up those PP points? Kreider has 9 PP points. Laf and Kreider have the same amount of EV points. Panarin has 24 EV points that's only 7 more than Laf. Laf only has 3 less EV points than Zibanejad.

In spite of Gallant's blatant disregard for developing these kids and the spotty inconsistent playing time, they're producing at a rate about equal to the "leaders" of the team.

They're not late bloomers. They've bloomed. They're just actively being held back. It's incredibly hard as a player to get into a rhythm and demand that every play of every shift be impactful while sitting for long stretches of the game and getting tossed around the lineup and benched every time they make a mistake. In spite of Gallant's dumb flat head the kids are actually having very productive seasons that people just want to ignore because they're not 30 goal scorers while getting only 12-14 minutes most nights.

I agree with you on a lot of this but Selannne scored like 72 goals as a 22 year old, I think they could completely take the reins off Kakko and he won’t approach that. If he got to 30 I’d be thrilled.

I think he has some developing to do before he could even break 40.

 

[mas0764]

This board as a whole was unbearable as recently as a year ago predominantly “concerned” about our 1st and 2nd OA being busts and / or blaming organization for mishandling prospects development.

NYRHFB where they love prospects as 19 yo and hate them as 21 yo because of inability to grasp that most players come into their own around 24-26 (that requires patience) and only seek instant gratification.

Eh, but most of the generational type talent that wins about 90% of the Cups is already excelling at much younger ages.

 

[Fitzy]

I agree with you on a lot of this but Selannne scored like 72 goals as a 22 year old, I think they could completely take the reins off Kakko and he won’t approach that. If he got to 30 I’d be thrilled.

I think he has some developing to do before he could even break 40.

No one scores 70 any more.

 

[duhmetreE]

Hayes Seeler Deslauriers

Lafrenniere #1 Jones Blais

No one scores 70 any more.

If they brought back this size of equipment they would.

Also pretty confident McDavid could do it if he really tried

 

[Fitzy]

If they brought back this size of equiptment they would.

Make the players use wooden sticks again and it evens out, IMO.

Most of the guys in the game today can’t even take a proper shot with an old school stick

 

[Kocur26]

Hayes Seeler Deslauriers

Lafrenniere #1 Jones Blais

I don’t think people understand what they’re giving up in this deal and what they’re getting this is a fantastic deal.
Jones and Blais are hot garbage.
Deslauries is the heavyweight champ
Hayes is 30-30 behind Zib
Lafrenniere is radek bonk / hell melt under Torts.
Seeler gives us that depth D with bite .

 

[duhmetreE]

Make the players use wooden sticks again and it evens out, IMO.

Most of the guys in the game today can’t even take a proper shot with an old school stick

It should be regulated somewhat but it allows for more offense and offense sells.

There should be a degree of flex allowed.

I don’t think people understand what they’re giving up in this deal and what they’re getting this is a fantastic deal.
Jones and Blais are hot garbage.
Deslauries is the heavyweight champ
Hayes is 30-30 behind Zib
Lafrenniere is radek bonk / hell melt under Torts.
Seeler gives us that depth D with bite .

I like Hayes. I wanted to keep him.

But I'm not giving up Lafreniere for him. When Hayes was 21 he was eating doritos and ripping bongs in college. Laffy will be fine.

If we want bite, look to make a hockey trade with Montreal for Xhekaj. Fills the 3LD spot and adds that size/toughness we lack.

 

[duhmetreE]

In terms of how they have looked, comparitively speaking in their d+1, d+2, d+3 seasons... Laffy has been well ahead of Kakko. Kakko seems to be finally 'putting it together' in his d+4 season.

Given our shit org development, Laffy will be fine. He will probably start 'breaking out' and realizing his draft pedigree next season... hopefully even at the end of this one.

 

[IDvsEGO]

on.

Given our shit org development, Laffy will be fine. He will probably start 'breaking out' and realizing his draft pedigree next season... hopefully even at the end of this one.

I mean considering his lack of PP time, I'd say he's doing absolutely fine, and as soon as he gets that PP time, he's gonna be ripping off 30-40g seasons.

 

[Fitzy]

I’m genuinely not sure who “moves first” regarding our top PP picture but I feel like that conversation is a year away at minimum.

Trocheck has fit in well with that group.

Zibby and Panarin will always be out there while they are below 35 and in NYR blue.

Kreider is more of a net front presence type and so if he departs neither Kakko or Laf are intuitive replacements.

 

[bleedblue94]

I never said 3m long term. I only mentioned 6x6 or 7x7. But some people did mention 3x3… no way he is taking that little for 3 years.

If he takes 3m it is for 1 year or 2 just so he goes UFA at the end and then his agent really forces our hand. In all honesty he is the perfect candidate for a team to poach from us bc we are cap screwed. We dont have as much leverage with him as people think, especially if he keeps producing.

You are probably right that he is about 4.5mish now maybe more like 5.

Also i did say that it would take finagling on the cap as well as seeing how much the cap goes up. If 1m obviously not, if we do get a 3 or 4m bump than its doable, but still hard.

Laff will get bridged and miller will get bridged too. Though truthfully miller is an ideal candidate to go long term with too. Because is already looking at a 4m ish bridge contract. Laff while I would love to go term with, probably would never sign term yet bc he hasn’t put up the stats that he should.

The whole point here is that you have nothing to gain by signing them long-term if you're not getting them at a discount. So why are you trying to sign them long-term at what you think will be market value down the road? Literally makes no sense especially considering the cap situation that the organization is in right now. They're getting bridged unless one of the big tickets on this team is dealt this summer

 

[Savant]

Hayes Seeler Deslauriers

Lafrenniere #1 Jones Blais

This doesn’t deserve a reply, but because it’s Christmas

Not withstanding the rest of the deal, but if the Rangers are giving up Lafreniere AND a 1st I need a hell of a lot better than Kevin Hayes coming back.

Hayes going to be get bought out this off-season anyway. make your move for him then.

 

[Ruggs225]

The whole point here is that you have nothing to gain by signing them long-term if you're not getting them at a discount. So why are you trying to sign them long-term at what you think will be market value down the road? Literally makes no sense especially considering the cap situation that the organization is in right now. They're getting bridged unless one of the big tickets on this team is dealt this summer

I believe that in years 3-6 his contract at 6m would be a discount. I think he will keep progressing and could even have a year or two at ppg once he gets PP time.

Its not that far fetched.

And again. He is two years away from free agency and i would rather not have him bust out without a long term contract and all of a sudden he could be an 8m player wspecially with cap rising.

Or worse we just lose him bc we cant afford to resign him. Or some dingbat team offers him an offer sheet this year.

 

[Alluckks]

Zac Jones + for Barabanov at 50%

Barabanov scores well, plays both ways, and can play both wings. Rangers showed at the TDL last year that they value players who can play multiple spots, it is what they valued Goodrow for as well. He is signed for 2.5 mil for this year and next. Still allows plenty of room to bring in a solid rental LD.

Panarin Zib Kravstov
Kreider Trocheck Barabanov
Laf Chytil Kakko
Vesey Goodrow Gauthier

Very good forward group there, and I'm a big fan of that 4th line

 

[EdJovanovski]

Zac Jones + for Barabanov at 50%

Barabanov scores well, plays both ways, and can play both wings. Rangers showed at the TDL last year that they value players who can play multiple spots, it is what they valued Goodrow for as well. He is signed for 2.5 mil for this year and next. Still allows plenty of room to bring in a solid rental LD.

Panarin Zib Kravstov
Kreider Trocheck Barabanov
Laf Chytil Kakko
Vesey Goodrow Gauthier

Very good forward group there, and I'm a big fan of that 4th line

 

[Taluss]

Sharks guy, 21st in 30gp. Signed at 2.5aav till 2024.

I like the reasoning behind the post.

 

[Fitzy]

Throwing too many young assets around in one season is how some teams go from good to very bad a lot quicker than they need to.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

It says here he is a UFA after this season.

Timo Meier | NHL Contracts & Salaries | Spotrac.com

Timo Meier contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.

www.spotrac.com

Sportrac is not great when it comes to hockey.

Meier is in his 7th season but only his 6th pro season. His first year he didn't spend 41 games on the roster so therefore that first year did not count as an accrued season towards UFA eligibility.

That's where Sportrac got it wrong.

Use capfriendly.com

 

[Alluckks]

A good player that plays both wings, had 39 points in 70 games last and has 21 points in 30 games so far this year. That would be a fantastic player to have for this year and at a 1.25 cap hit next year.

 

[GENESISPuck94]

You keep harping on this but what’s their 5v5 time? Kakko 3rd, Laf 4th (ahead of Mika and CK) and Chytil 9th (he missed 8 games). All even strength situations they’re 4th Kakko, 5th Laf and 9th Chytil.

They’re not going to be spoon feed PP time and no other coach would with the current unit we have. So that leaves the PK, which they occasionally get into the rotation but I’d assume you’d complain about that bc they’re supposed to be scorers and it’s a cheap way to inflate their ice time numbers.

That doesn't matter. The overall ice time is still what it is. 5v5 is much harder to both score and defend anyway. It's not like getting 12-13 EV minutes somehow magically means anything. It's still only 14 minutes overall most nights. A game is 60 minutes they're sitting for 45+ minutes. And a lot of that time has special teams play so they can sit for like 10 minute stretches considering they also have to wait for their regular shift while other lines play, stoppages, and commercial breaks. Sitting around for 10 minutes you can get cold and lose focus.

 

[Do you want ants]

That doesn't matter. The overall ice time is still what it is. 5v5 is much harder to both score and defend anyway. It's not like getting 12-13 EV minutes somehow magically means anything. It's still only 14 minutes overall most nights. A game is 60 minutes they're sitting for 45+ minutes. And a lot of that time has special teams play so they can sit for like 10 minute stretches considering they also have to wait for their regular shift while other lines play, stoppages, and commercial breaks. Sitting around for 10 minutes you can get cold and lose focus.

Ok. Well they’re still 5th/6th in total TOI this season. Chytil missed 8 games. So they’re all getting essentially top 6 mins. Are you going to continue to whine and repeat the same thing over and over again until they’re all 1-3?

 

[SA16]

That doesn't matter. The overall ice time is still what it is. 5v5 is much harder to both score and defend anyway. It's not like getting 12-13 EV minutes somehow magically means anything. It's still only 14 minutes overall most nights. A game is 60 minutes they're sitting for 45+ minutes. And a lot of that time has special teams play so they can sit for like 10 minute stretches considering they also have to wait for their regular shift while other lines play, stoppages, and commercial breaks. Sitting around for 10 minutes you can get cold and lose focus.

The Canadian Junior leagues exist if you’d like to watch prospects get big minutes

 

[nsvoyageurs]

Giroux actually had a pulse on an awful Flyers team. He had 18 goals prior to the Florida trade. How will the Rangers use Kane? Is Gallant breaking up the first unit PP for Kane? The Rangers trade for Kane and they don't put him on the first PP, why acquire him? The Rangers won't promote Kakko or Lafreniere to the 1st unit.

The Rangers need another defenseman.

Do the Rangers need double retention for Kane so they can do other things? The double retention will only add to the cost of renting Kane. Is it worth it?

No, it isn't worth it. Let the kids play top 6 roles. If they want to add a depth defenceman, go for it.

 

[RangersFan1994]

It should be regulated somewhat but it allows for more offense and offense sells.

There should be a degree of flex allowed.


I like Hayes. I wanted to keep him.

But I'm not giving up Lafreniere for him. When Hayes was 21 he was eating doritos and ripping bongs in college. Laffy will be fine.

If we want bite, look to make a hockey trade with Montreal for Xhekaj. Fills the 3LD spot and adds that size/toughness we lack.

Jones and 2ed to Habs for Xhekaj? Rangers need some skilled toughness for the playoffs when the things get rough. Imagine if they did not have that last year.