Speculation: Roster Building Thread II (2019/2020) - DeAngelo and Lemieux Left

[Calad]

On a separate note why didn’t they draft his kid 2nd round and not the G?

It's his nephew. Who knows though.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Hitting and being physical are not the same. I've always seen him as a physical player that is willing to muck it up, he just doesn't have the size to throw big hits. He's also a pest, talks a good amount of trash on the ice

Unfortunately being willing =/= being effective. He’s got to get a lot better with his positioning and stick work, because he gets outmuscled way too often, particularly around the net.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

Oh, okay. I stand corrected. I guess I read into it wrong.

Personally, I don't think you read it wrong....it really depends on which report you read. Prime example:

Kevin Shattenkirk on Rangers buyout: 'I was pretty pissed off about it' - Sportsnet.ca

The 4th paragraph clearly points to the buyout as the reason for him being "pissed"....

Further down, it then displays his full quote....some stories didn't bother posting the entire quote -- for instance:

https://nypost.com/2019/08/05/kevin-shattenkirk-signs-with-lightning-after-rangers-buyout/

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

$874,125 per for both ADA and Lemieux. Take it or leave it. The Rangers don't have a pot to piss in. One year QO offer. One way. The Rangers don't have room for much more right now unless there is some pending trade for Kreider where the Rangers free up most of the $4.625M. Montreal traded Pacioretty a few days before trading camp started last year. The Rangers retain some money or take back a smaller contract to make the money work.

The season begins in 55 days. Training camp begins five weeks from today. I think it opens on September 12.

ADA's QO is 906k

 

[NYR Viper]

On a separate note why didn’t they draft his kid 2nd round and not the G?

It's his nephew

 

[nyr2k2]

Personally, I don't think you read it wrong....it really depends on which report you read. Prime example:

Kevin Shattenkirk on Rangers buyout: 'I was pretty pissed off about it' - Sportsnet.ca

The 4th paragraph clearly points to the buyout as the reason for him being "pissed"....

Further down, it then displays his full quote....some stories didn't bother posting the entire quote -- for instance:

https://nypost.com/2019/08/05/kevin-shattenkirk-signs-with-lightning-after-rangers-buyout/

OK. I really don't want to discuss this anymore, but I will. You're right--places and posting full quotes. This is all based on an interview with Whyno and people are picking and choosing quotes. On the buyout that he was pissed about:

Sounds like he's pissed at himself for allowing the situation to deteriorate to the point where he was even a consideration for a buyout. Further, on the buyout and his time here:

You can forget about who is posting the "entire quote" and just go to Whyno's Twitter, go to August 5th, and read all the quotes. Interpret it how you want but it comes across clear as day as a guy who hurt he was bought out, but largely blames his own play and who does not fault the Rangers or regret signing here, is disappointed that we sucked and chose to rebuild when he obviously thought we were a competitive team, and now has a chip on his shoulder to get better next season.

Stephen Whyno (@SWhyno) | Twitter

I"m done posting these links, I guess people will just believe what they choose or are led to believe (by half-assed articles).

 

[SA16]

ADA's QO is 906k

That expired a month ago and is a meaningless number at this point. They can offer him lower if they want and his options are basically take it or hold out. Now I'd rather sign him long term now anyway but it doesn't really work with the cap situation at the moment.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Like who ? DeAngelo? He’s likely the 3rd RD and lost in expansion ... Lundkvist should be ready then and Trouba / Fox Are staying . Staal and Smith are Gone in 2 years So they likely protect a Hajek who goes w Skjei , Miller who should be Ready and ideally a guy like Rykov /Lindgren

We have to protect 3 out of Trouba, DeAngelo, Skjei and Hajek - Fox is exempt as is Lundkvist. I put the likelihood of DeAngelo being exposed at less than 1% as he would be traded even if they feel he is the one to go.

Regarding Trouba/ADA/Fox, I would put the likelihood of Fox ever becoming better than DeAngelo at <5% and I would say the likelihood of DeAngelo being a better overall defenceman than Trouba above 50% for this season already (he was better than Trouba in 2019, so he just needs to keep it up). However, even if that would happen it unfortunately doesn't guarantee that management might put themselves into a position where they feel they have to move him anyway.

 

[nyr2k2]

ADA's QO is 906k

QO's have expired, though. I wouldn't expect the Rangers would suddenly try negotiating for anything under the initial QO, but who knows. The players don't really have any leverage at this point, it's either sign something or don't play. Or I guess hope for an offer sheet.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

That expired a month ago and is a meaningless number at this point. They can offer him lower if they want and his options are basically take it or hold out. Now I'd rather sign him long term now anyway but it doesn't really work with the cap situation at the moment.

QO's have expired, though. I wouldn't expect the Rangers would suddenly try negotiating for anything under the initial QO, but who knows. The players don't really have any leverage at this point, it's either sign something or don't play. Or I guess hope for an offer sheet.

I know. I'm not the one bringing it up. Just correcting the number

 

[nyr2k2]

I know. I'm not the one bringing it up. Just correcting the number

Well it's not really incorrect, if there's no longer a number. He could have said $850,000.

But I know what you're saying.

 

[True Blue]

I can see him getting 2nd PK time to begin the season (mostly by default), getting burned repeatedly, and then being replaced by Fox somewhere in the game 20-40 range.

I am not seeing Fox on the PK. Oh, I get that he will get some time there, they all will. But his size will make it an issue. He can get overpowered.

Unfortunately being willing =/= being effective. He’s got to get a lot better with his positioning and stick work, because he gets outmuscled way too often, particularly around the net.

I agree. He is willing, but that has nothing to do with winning a battle in a corner or defending the net. In that aspect, I really wonder about the PK. After Trouba, you are probably looking at DeAngelo and Fox. And neither has the size to out muscle anyone.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

Going to put on my RB hat here. Was looking into Jesper Fast’s great journey to the Rangers and realized that his cousin Anton Bengtsson just left the HV71 system for the first time in his career to move to Rogle. So Fast’s cousin will be a vet C on the same team as Adam Edstrom and Jacob Ragnarsson. Same team may be a stretch as Edstrom will most likely play SuperElit again this year but it isn’t impossible. Two Rangers prospects will have a connection to a player in the system who made it from the 6th round to an ‘A’ on the NYR. Found that pretty cool and wanted to share.

 

[kovazub94]

I know a lot of people don't care about it but let's get off the power play and onto the penalty kill--which IMO is just as important--maybe even more so if like last year your team is being penalized more than it's getting power plays. Because a bad penalty kill can pretty much negate a pretty good power play.

So the Rangers are going to need at least 2 RD's regularly killing penalties and the third one doing some because Trouba can't be relied to stay out and kill off entire penalty kills just on his own--he's going to need help from someone else on the right side and keep in mind as well he took 58 penalty minutes of his own last year. So IMO if Tony is going to be our 2nd RD this year he is going to step up. Fox is a first year pro who has never played an NHL game and I wouldn't be happy just feeding Tony power play time and throwing Fox to the wolves with all the penalty kill time. To me there will have to be some kind of balance after Trouba between DeAngelo and whoever else is playing RD.

Trouba is more the triggerman type than the slick QB and he’s also very good at stepping up into the slot to receive a pass and shoot from in close; I can see configurations where he plays the PP with another D more in the passing role. (Though they could also rely on Panarin, Buch, or even Kravtsov to distribute.)

Re: @eco's bones point on the PK, I share hs concern as to ADA on defense. He’s simply too easy to move off the puck/too ineffective at protecting the front of the net. That flaw (combined with the fact that he’s still a regular at Chateau Bowwow this many years into his development) are why I continue to have doubts about his long term future with the team, despite the flashes of offensive brilliance. I can see him getting 2nd PK time to begin the season (mostly by default), getting burned repeatedly, and then being replaced by Fox somewhere in the game 20-40 range.

Good stuff here. To bolded I actually think that bad PK not just negates good PP but worse - good team could survive with below average PP but absolutely not with below average PK.

Otherwise, reasonably assuming that Trouba will be on the first PK unit, it would probably make sense that he's on the 2nd PP unit, thus allowing ADA or Fox to do their thing on the 1st PP. With the addition of K & K, th amount of talent is likely to make the 2nd unit to be pretty dangerous too. I mean if Panarin-Zib-Kreider-Kakko-ADA is PP1, then Trouba will have Buchnevich, Kravtsov And Chytil with him on PP2. Not bad at all.

 

[Raspewtin]

feel like it's getting to the point where ADA is getting underrated.

he's definitely hyper aggressive and sometimes doesn't know when to pick his spots but the idea that he constantly loses battles and gets out-muscled is hogwash IMO.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

That expired a month ago and is a meaningless number at this point. They can offer him lower if they want and his options are basically take it or hold out. Now I'd rather sign him long term now anyway but it doesn't really work with the cap situation at the moment.

Id sign him 1 yr at 1.2 or so and see if he becomes a 3-4 Mil D year after next when a boatload of $ comes off

 

[Blue Blooded]

Good stuff here. To bolded I actually think that bad PK not just negates good PP but worse - good team could survive with below average PP but absolutely not with below average PK.

Otherwise, reasonably assuming that Trouba will be on the first PK unit, it would probably make sense that he's on the 2nd PP unit, thus allowing ADA or Fox to do their thing on the 1st PP. With the addition of K & K, th amount of talent is likely to make the 2nd unit to be pretty dangerous too. I mean if Panarin-Zib-Kreider-Kakko-ADA is PP1, then Trouba will have Buchnevich, Kravtsov And Chytil with him on PP2. Not bad at all.

Just like at the beginning of last season, we once again have the personnel to run two good PP units. When Hayes and ADA were on the PP2 it generated a higher xGF/60 than any unit in the league aside from Toronto's ridiculously dominant PP1.

 

[Blue Blooded]

feel like it's getting to the point where ADA is getting underrated.

he's definitely hyper aggressive and sometimes doesn't know when to pick his spots but the idea that he constantly loses battles and gets out-muscled is hogwash IMO.

I felt he got overfocused on positioning at times and ceded the blueline too easily as a result, as well as giving guys a bit too much space in the defensive zone. It's definitely a new thing for him as he has tended to be overagressive in the past. Hopefully he can find a good balance in the future - he had remarkable overall impacts in 2019 so he mostly needs to keep that up.

 

[Leetch3]

I'm a big fan of ADA, love his upside potential and I think that financially we will regret not locking him up long term...that said though given his history, the off the ice stuff, history of being in quinn's doghouse etc I'm not sure the rangers want to commit to him long term at this point even if the cap allowed it...I think this is a scenario with factors beyond talent & upside.

in a way I think the cap crunch actually works in our favor a bit here, because now they can sit him down and be like look we love the progress you made last year and see you as a huge part of the future of the team. the cap is tight right now but we are looking for big things from you this year and want you hear long term...

then this year you see how he handles things. does he show the maturity you want, is he in and out of the 'quinn bin' also get to see the progress of fox...and depending on how things go then lock him up long term or move him.

 

[Zats Muccarello]

ADA was arguably our best d-man last year. That may not be saying much given the state of our defense but to think he will accept anything close to his QO is really wishful thinking.

 

[Irishguy42]

Like who ? DeAngelo? He’s likely the 3rd RD and lost in expansion ... Lundkvist should be ready then and Trouba / Fox Are staying . Staal and Smith are Gone in 2 years So they likely protect a Hajek who goes w Skjei , Miller who should be Ready and ideally a guy like Rykov /Lindgren

Imagine having this bad of an opinion.

 

[will1066]

ADA has raw skills that can only be described as sexy. And a competitive fire, to boot. I agree with those who think that he will start racking up points.

 

[will1066]

This whole Shattenkirk Mad, Shattenkirk Smash thing has become meme worthy.

 

[nyr2k2]

ADA was arguably our best d-man last year. That may not be saying much given the state of our defense but to think he will accept anything close to his QO is really wishful thinking.

I think he'll come in somewhere close to his QO. He doesn't really have much in the way of leverage.

 

[Fitzy]

We have to protect 3 out of Trouba, DeAngelo, Skjei and Hajek - Fox is exempt as is Lundkvist. I put the likelihood of DeAngelo being exposed at less than 1% as he would be traded even if they feel he is the one to go.

Frankly, if Skjei doesn't rebound and start playing like a real top pairing player with Trouba, and the two kids play really well, I could see him as the one exposed out of that group. Just from a value perspective.

He's be 27, entering paid UFA years, and there's no certainty a new franchise would take him.