Speculation: Roster Building Thread II (2019/2020) - DeAngelo and Lemieux Left

[n8]

no shatty 5v5. win

no overplaying pionk, win

thats addition by subtraction right there.

add in trouba and fox.

77 will have a breakout season with pionk gone and him getting a reg shift and PP time. this kid will approach 50 points this season.

the unknowns are hajek and rykov

I find it strange if the Rangers are really sticking to giving ADA only a QO. Get him signed for like 5 years @ $2M. I think that will be a great contract.

 

[bbny]

I find it strange if the Rangers are really sticking to giving ADA only a QO. Get him signed for like 5 years @ $2M. I think that will be a great contract.

I'm undecided until I see what the buyout numbers would look like after 2 years.

 

[bobbop]

What is “living on past accomplishments”?

Thanks for playing and drive home safely. Here’s a copy of our home game.

 

[Anzi]

I find it strange if the Rangers are really sticking to giving ADA only a QO. Get him signed for like 5 years @ $2M. I think that will be a great contract.

5 years @ $2M is pretty unrealistic. No way ADA accepts that.

 

[will1066]

5 years @ $2M is pretty unrealistic. No way ADA accepts that.

I was going to say the same

 

[RangerLifer]

Go read Whyno's Twitter thread on this:


Shattenkirk was pissed at HIMSELF, disappointed HE didn't play better and allowed the buyout to become an option, doesn't regret signing here, etc., etc. He's not blaming the Rangers or mad at the Rangers and the chip he has on his shoulder is from how he played the last two years. This has all been covered earlier in the Around the NHL thread, among other places.

Oh, okay. I stand corrected. I guess I read into it wrong.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

I find it strange if the Rangers are really sticking to giving ADA only a QO. Get him signed for like 5 years @ $2M. I think that will be a great contract.

He’d have to want to sign that, and I can’t see his agent ever letting him sign something like that

 

[Avery16]

I find it strange if the Rangers are really sticking to giving ADA only a QO. Get him signed for like 5 years @ $2M. I think that will be a great contract.

Zero chance he would sign that

 

[QJL]

I was going to say the same

DeAngelo might take $2m for one year. After the Pionk contract, he’s not going to be very happy with that. I want to see a one year deal, and then assuming his trajectory continues, something like $4m x 4 years.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

You gotta expect Trouba to get PP1 time, the lions share of it. He's a prized acquisition. And you gotta expect the PP to be 4 forwards and 1 D. ADA will be on the second unit. Fox is going to have to do some amazing things to earn PP time, even if his reputation on offense precedes him.

PP 1 will probably be Trouba/Panarin/Zib/Kreider/Buch
PP 2 will probably be Fox or TDA/Strome/Kravstov/Kakko/Chytil

That's my best guess to start the year. Kakko may move up at times, Lemeiux might get some time if he's hot. Ditto for Anderson. I can see Skjei or even Hajek being rewarded with PP time but those are the main guys.

 

[eco's bones]

You gotta expect Trouba to get PP1 time, the lions share of it. He's a prized acquisition. And you gotta expect the PP to be 4 forwards and 1 D. ADA will be on the second unit. Fox is going to have to do some amazing things to earn PP time, even if his reputation on offense precedes him.

I know a lot of people don't care about it but let's get off the power play and onto the penalty kill--which IMO is just as important--maybe even more so if like last year your team is being penalized more than it's getting power plays. Because a bad penalty kill can pretty much negate a pretty good power play.

So the Rangers are going to need at least 2 RD's regularly killing penalties and the third one doing some because Trouba can't be relied to stay out and kill off entire penalty kills just on his own--he's going to need help from someone else on the right side and keep in mind as well he took 58 penalty minutes of his own last year. So IMO if Tony is going to be our 2nd RD this year he is going to step up. Fox is a first year pro who has never played an NHL game and I wouldn't be happy just feeding Tony power play time and throwing Fox to the wolves with all the penalty kill time. To me there will have to be some kind of balance after Trouba between DeAngelo and whoever else is playing RD.

 

[Ola]

DeAngelo might take $2m for one year. After the Pionk contract, he’s not going to be very happy with that. I want to see a one year deal, and then assuming his trajectory continues, something like $4m x 4 years.

I would do like 3.5m per for 4-5 years easily for TDA. Probably add a bit short of a million to that too. The Zaitsev deal.

Nashville didn't give Fiala a long term deal. Fiala has a reputation of being a bit of a diva/spoiled kid. They lock up the players they believe in. I don't know about TDA -- maybe he is like Fiala and someone we shouldn't invest in. But Gorton should be able to make that call, we should know him well enough for sure by now after two years. IF he is worth investing in, his price will go through the roof once he get any kind of leverage. 6-7m per is downright low in that scenario.

Look back at all the discussions we have had. You know the "is Hayes really worth 4.5m per on a 5-6 year deal"? In hindsight like every single question we have asked ourselves in regards to these guys are ridiculously easy to answer. Even if you took the highest number posed, its a very easy question to answer.

The market value of 4-5m of cap space per season is basically a 1st round pick.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Truth to be told, I wonder if Drury is GM material. He just don’t seem that...I don’t want to say bright, but like very creative.

Even if Gorton doesn’t exactly sound like a professor when talking and uses the same quantity of cliches as everyone else, it always shines through that he has a clear picture of what he wants and so forth. I would never underestimate him. But with Drury, nothing shines through. I am sure he can be someone’s right hand, errand boy. But the architect?

What are you basing this on?

 

[Ola]

The biggest challenge this team has is signing players to good contracts. Players on a good team gets paid a lot. A team that renegotiates a lot of its contracts when its good will have a very short window. Its very simple and the examples are numerous. Even a team like Winnipeg that has its core signed to great contracts, get big problems so fast. You must be able to manage the majority of players on your roster from this perspective, not just the core.

Signing our players to good contracts over time is essential if we want to become a true contender. Its easily much more important than getting (another?) great young player. That is not even up for debate. What is best for a fairly good say top 8 team, cap-hell + a great kid or a good cap-situation for the coming 4-5 years without that great kid? Its easily the later option. Look at Chicago with Panarin.

So how will we accomplish this? I think Gorton made the biggest blunder of his tenure here in NY not buying out both Staal and Smith this summer to make sure he could lock up the RFAs -- worth investing in -- right now. And keep going down that route the coming seasons. I am honestly shocked that Brooks and co. aren't calling for him to be fired right now. Its such an enormous blunder. Wait 3-4 years and see.

 

[Ola]

What are you basing this on?

I think the best example is the Dreger Café interview Drury made.

Is it possible to say that its totally ridiculous to base a conclusion like the one I made on a handful of shorter interviews? Of course, I could of course be totally wrong lol. But its just an impression I have. I just see a guy who more than having a message of his own repeats a message. Gorton and everyone else in management is like that too, but only like to say like 97.5%. You still see like Gorton agonizing when discussing these topics with media. He has something he want to say, and want to get there as good as its possible to do within the framwork of these shorter interviews and today's media society quite frankly. Without stepping on any toes or saying something that can be misinterpreted or whatever.

 

[Vitto79]

The biggest challenge this team has is signing players to good contracts. Players on a good team gets paid a lot. A team that renegotiates a lot of its contracts when its good will have a very short window. Its very simple and the examples are numerous. Even a team like Winnipeg that has its core signed to great contracts, get big problems so fast. You must be able to manage the majority of players on your roster from this perspective, not just the core.

Signing our players to good contracts over time is essential if we want to become a true contender. Its easily much more important than getting (another?) great young player. That is not even up for debate. What is best for a fairly good say top 8 team, cap-hell + a great kid or a good cap-situation for the coming 4-5 years without that great kid? Its easily the later option. Look at Chicago with Panarin.

So how will we accomplish this? I think Gorton made the biggest blunder of his tenure here in NY not buying out both Staal and Smith this summer to make sure he could lock up the RFAs -- worth investing in -- right now. And keep going down that route the coming seasons. I am honestly shocked that Brooks and co. aren't calling for him to be fired right now. Its such an enormous blunder. Wait 3-4 years and see.

Like who ? DeAngelo? He’s likely the 3rd RD and lost in expansion ... Lundkvist should be ready then and Trouba / Fox Are staying . Staal and Smith are Gone in 2 years So they likely protect a Hajek who goes w Skjei , Miller who should be Ready and ideally a guy like Rykov /Lindgren

 

[RangerBoy]

$874,125 per for both ADA and Lemieux. Take it or leave it. The Rangers don't have a pot to piss in. One year QO offer. One way. The Rangers don't have room for much more right now unless there is some pending trade for Kreider where the Rangers free up most of the $4.625M. Montreal traded Pacioretty a few days before trading camp started last year. The Rangers retain some money or take back a smaller contract to make the money work.

The season begins in 55 days. Training camp begins five weeks from today. I think it opens on September 12.

 

[RangerBoy]

Not sure if this has been covered already, but Fanduel has the Rangers points over/under at 88.5 points.

I guess those experts projecting 73 - 77 points should be betting their life savings on the under.

The Fanduel people are professional gamblers.

Take the under.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Actually Trouba had 50 points for Winnipeg last year--playing second fiddle behind Byfuglien on the right side for the half season that Dustin wasn't injured. Trouba had 18 power play points and 3 shorthanded. I wouldn't be surprised if Jacob got the most power play time of the Rangers defensemen and if Fox is around he will get some too. That's not to say that I don't think DeAngelo will get power play time but this coming season might be a lot like last season for him as far as those kind of minutes. Tony did average 19 minutes of ice time for the Rangers--though he was scratched numerous times. But 19 minutes is pretty much top 4 minutes when he played. Very little of that ice time was shorthanded--his defense and physical strength have been weaknesses in his overall game and physical strength and fighting ability are two different things by the way. He's not really a physical player but he fights very very well for his size.

Unless Fox has a great training camp though I would think DeAngelo is going to slot onto the 2nd pair on RD behind Trouba. What would be very helpful would be improved defensive play and more regular time penalty killing. A defenseman is much more valuable if he can play in all situations.

Trouba's PP scoring (which was good) was more a product of a great unit than him being an elite QB, the unit performed better with Byfuglien at the helm. He's not a bad option, but he is clearly (IMO) not as good as DeAngelo there. I'm sure they will both QB the PP1 at different points (and Fox will likely get a shot as well), but I expect DeAngelo to run with it.

Regarding his physicality my impression was that he was uncharacteristically passive defensively this past season, which I chalked up to the scratches and him being afraid to make mistakes and being out of position. He's been an agressive defender and physical for his size in the past. The coaches should have him watch a lot of tape on how EK65 plays defence considering they have almost identical skillsets and statures.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Trouba is more the triggerman type than the slick QB and he’s also very good at stepping up into the slot to receive a pass and shoot from in close; I can see configurations where he plays the PP with another D more in the passing role. (Though they could also rely on Panarin, Buch, or even Kravtsov to distribute.)

Re: @eco's bones point on the PK, I share hs concern as to ADA on defense. He’s simply too easy to move off the puck/too ineffective at protecting the front of the net. That flaw (combined with the fact that he’s still a regular at Chateau Bowwow this many years into his development) are why I continue to have doubts about his long term future with the team, despite the flashes of offensive brilliance. I can see him getting 2nd PK time to begin the season (mostly by default), getting burned repeatedly, and then being replaced by Fox somewhere in the game 20-40 range.

 

[Ola]

Like who ? DeAngelo? He’s likely the 3rd RD and lost in expansion ... Lundkvist should be ready then and Trouba / Fox Are staying . Staal and Smith are Gone in 2 years So they likely protect a Hajek who goes w Skjei , Miller who should be Ready and ideally a guy like Rykov /Lindgren

I know, but haven't the same thing has been said about all our RFAs the last decade? Then it hindsight more or less extreme blunders were made in every single case? With Vesey and Namestnikov maybe being the exceptions...

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I like DeAngelo but we seriously have to hope he has figured it out this year, I mean he spent a lot of time being disciplined by the coach last year, if that continues into this year we have Trouba and Fox as our anchors on the right side. He looked a lot better late last year, hopefully he is ready this year.

 

[eco's bones]

Trouba is more the triggerman type than the slick QB and he’s also very good at stepping up into the slot to receive a pass and shoot from in close; I can see configurations where he plays the PP with another D more in the passing role. (Though they could also rely on Panarin, Buch, or even Kravtsov to distribute.)

Re: @eco's bones point on the PK, I share hs concern as to ADA on defense. He’s simply too easy to move off the puck/too ineffective at protecting the front of the net. That flaw (combined with the fact that he’s still a regular at Chateau Bowwow this many years into his development) are why I continue to have doubts about his long term future with the team, despite the flashes of offensive brilliance. I can see him getting 2nd PK time to begin the season (mostly by default), getting burned repeatedly, and then being replaced by Fox somewhere in the game 20-40 range.

Mainly I see DeAngelo as a work in progress and either his defending will get better or he'll eventually be moved on. He has to learn to close the gap better and positioning is going to be key for him because size and strength are issues. He is not very physical as I said and he's not much of a hitter--more of a pusher and shover. He does fight very well.

 

[Vitto79]

As usual, Drury is under-appreciated and underrated.

On a separate note why didn’t they draft his kid 2nd round and not the G?

 

[Calad]

Mainly I see DeAngelo as a work in progress and either his defending will get better or he'll eventually be moved on. He has to learn to close the gap better and positioning is going to be key for him because size and strength are issues. He is not very physical as I said and he's not much of a hitter--more of a pusher and shover. He does fight very well.

Hitting and being physical are not the same. I've always seen him as a physical player that is willing to muck it up, he just doesn't have the size to throw big hits. He's also a pest, talks a good amount of trash on the ice