Speculation: Roster Building Thread DCLXXXVI:

[TheBPA]

Shattenkirk is painted as this PP specialist who can't play defense and it just couldn't be farther from the truth.

Ya, the guy can actually play the position. I'm ok with paying someone to do that.

Just not sure there's room to sign both Smith and Shattenkirk. If I'm choosing one, it's Shattenkirk at 6 mil or less (but less seems like a pipe dream).

 

[SA16]

I think it's ridiculous to be willing to give him 6M a year but not 7M. Your willing to pass up the most elite PP dmen in the league who is extremely good in all situations 5v5 (despite what people may say) over 1M? That's like Shattenkirk at 6M and Puempel or Shattenkirk at 7M and just have a 22man roster.

 

[silverfish]

I think it's ridiculous to be willing to give him 6M a year but not 7M. Your willing to pass up the most elite PP dmen in the league who is extremely good in all situations 5v5 (despite what people may say) over 1M? That's like Shattenkirk at 6M and Puempel or Shattenkirk at 7M and just have a 22man roster.

So eager to give Brendan Smith 4x$4.5m but shudder of the thought of Shattenkirk at 6x$7m.

Makes no sense.

 

[Mrpuck]

Expecting DeAngelo to replace what Shattenkirk would bring to this team, or relatively due to AAV, shows a complete lack of understanding of what Shattenkirk is as a player, and totally ignores his effectiveness in his own zone.

A lot of faith in a will-be 22 year-old who has yet to show he can stick in the NHL as anything more than a PP specialist.

Totally agree. Plus why can't they both be on the team? Last time we had two gifted offensive D men was when we had Leetch / Zubov and that worked out pretty well.

 

[Hockeyplayer99]

With most of the teams in the east especially Metro division improving, the Rangers at this point didn't improve, but probably are worse. This lineup might only be better the the Devils in the Metro division. We are not making the playoffs this year with this lineup.

I still think that the Thornton and Marleau rumors are just posturing through the media in negotiations with the Sharks. At least I'm very hopeful that they are.

Sign Smith. Sign Grigorenko or Burmistrov. Sign Wingels or play Jensen.

Kreider - Zib - Zucc
Nash - Hayes - Miller
Vesey - Grigorenko/Burmistrov - Grabner
Wingels/Jensen - Kid - Fast

McD - Smith
Skjei - Holden
Staal - DeAngelo
Kampfer

See if Bereglazov can crack the team out of camp. If so, move Skjei to the right and bump Staal up a pair.

Play out half the season and see what the team looks like. See if one of Zib, Hayes, or Miller can start to establish themselves as a viable #1C. See if DeAngelo can make a leap forward. See how the guys like Pionk, Bereglazov and Pedrie handle their first full season with the org. Just evaluate what we have.

Nash can be dealt at any time. So can Zucc or Grabner. Teams are always looking for help during the season and when they approach the deadline those prices go up. If Nash is pacing for a big season, what's the going rate for a 30 goal scoring winger who can kill penalties? How about if the Rangers eat 50% and don't care what contract you send back? They could make a killing at the deadline.

 

[silverfish]

Totally agree. Plus why can't they both be on the team? Last time we had two gifted offensive D men was when we had Leetch / Zubov and that worked out pretty well.

I'm gonna let you in on a little secret... they can be!

 

[JayMan82]

Sign Smith. Sign Grigorenko or Burmistrov. Sign Wingels or play Jensen.

Kreider - Zib - Zucc
Nash - Hayes - Miller
Vesey - Grigorenko/Burmistrov - Grabner
Wingels/Jensen - Kid - Fast

McD - Smith
Skjei - Holden
Staal - DeAngelo
Kampfer

I know it's not a sexy lineup, but we gotta see what Zibby/Hayes/Miller are made of. They aren't prospects anymore and they all have reached or surpassed 50 points already. Roll the dice for one season and if it crashes and burns, then at least we can sell off some assets (Nash/McD/Zucc/maybe Lundy) in a year with an outstanding draft class. This is NOT the year to spend big bucks on FAs.

 

[offdacrossbar]

This.

Really hoping DeAngelo becomes something very special. But he still has a lot to prove and is not there yet.

A lot of people definitely do not understand what Shattenkirk is. And anyone who thinks DeAngelo is sufficient is much more than just misguided.

or, people do understand what shatty is and then do the math. im aware of what kevin shattenkirk brings. i wanted him last spring and this summer. but that was last spring. things have changed.

is he worth the 6/7 deal, on this team, he's looking for ?

can denagelo give us enough to justify that huge cap savings ?

is shatty better as 27's partner than 42 would be ?

those are legit questions.

 

[eco's bones]

Expecting DeAngelo to replace what Shattenkirk would bring to this team, or relatively due to AAV, shows a complete lack of understanding of what Shattenkirk is as a player, and totally ignores his effectiveness in his own zone.

A lot of faith in a will-be 22 year-old who has yet to show he can stick in the NHL as anything more than a PP specialist.

I'm not against the Rangers signing Shattenkirk. I am against them signing him for 6-7 years (and I think 5 is really pushing it).

You're pretty much coming along with the same argument that people made for trading for Rick Nash several years ago. Back then we needed a goal scorer--someone who would lead the offense (even when we already had Gaborik) and it didn't quite work out the way we hoped--which is a reality that you should at least consider. Shattenkirk all in all right now is a very good player but he's not an elite player. He's one of the better offensive defenseman but he's very average as a defender. He's not on the level of the best defenseman like Karlsson, Doughty, Subban.

FWIW I have no problem with the Rangers making him an offer but I'd stop short of getting into a bidding war for him. 4 years--$6-6.5. 5 years $5.5-6. No more.

 

[TheBPA]

So eager to give Brendan Smith 4x$4.5m but shudder of the thought of Shattenkirk at 6x$7m.

Makes no sense.

You really have to think hard about 7 mil.

Skjei will be an RFA next year. DeAngelo the year after that, and McD will be a UFA then as well. If the two young guys develop we're gonna have a hard time fitting those salaries in, unless they get short term bridge contracts which would likely burn the team down the road.

 

[Mrpuck]

I'm gonna let you in on a little secret... they can be!

Exactly my point.
I would be giddy just thinking we'd potentially have a Top 10 PP again...

 

[Tawnos]

I'm not against the Rangers signing Shattenkirk. I am against them signing him for 6-7 years (and I think 5 is really pushing it).

You're pretty much coming along with the same argument that people made for trading for Rick Nash several years ago. Back then we needed a goal scorer--someone who would lead the offense (even when we already had Gaborik) and it didn't quite work out the way we hoped--which is a reality that you should at least consider. Shattenkirk all in all right now is a very good player but he's not an elite player. He's one of the better offensive defenseman but he's very average as a defender. He's not on the level of the best defenseman like Karlsson, Doughty, Subban.

FWIW I have no problem with the Rangers making him an offer but I'd stop short of getting into a bidding war for him. 4 years--$6-6.5. 5 years $5.5-6. No more.

You AAVs are a little low. This isn't 2008.

Although, I agree with whoever brought up the idea of the team viewing a Shattenkirk signing as, at worst, a 4 year commitment no matter the length of the actual contract. CBA is up in 4 years and it isn't unrealistic to think that we might have another round of compliance buyouts.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

You AAVs are a little low. This isn't 2008.

Although, I agree with whoever brought up the idea of the team viewing a Shattenkirk signing as, at worst, a 4 year commitment no matter the length of the actual contract. CBA is up in 4 years and it isn't unrealistic to think that we might have another round of compliance buyouts.

I think operating on that assumption would be unwise.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

If only offer sheets were actually used, so many nice targets this summer.
Draisaitl $9.8m x 5 years
Parayko $7.8m/9.8m x 5 years
Kuznetsov $7.8m/9.8m x 5 years
Sheary $3.9m x 5 years.

etc etc...

I hate this "gentlemens agreement" among GMs, it's so boring.

Edit: 5 years because of how the compensation formula works.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

AV is also just weird about offensive defensemen, we all saw how Yandle was used. So unless the team goes down in flames, Shattenkirk's best year or two or even three will coincide with AV still being here.

Sure, we traded for DeAngelo, but in the very short term he shouldn't be much more than a protected third pair guy anyway.

 

[RangerBoy]

 

[bernmeister]

I wonder if the NYR are waiting to put Nash on the market until they get the final answer from Thornton.

Considering their friendship, I'd imagine the odds of JT coming here would be reduced to zero if Nash were to be moved.

All the more reason to go where I suggest here, which is 111% do NOT keep Nash = a win now move. Sell immediately to eliminate risk of injury,
Recover futures, cap space.

No thanks on Thornton, who is 40, for even 1 yr let alone 3!!!!

 

[silverfish]

or, people do understand what shatty is and then do the math. im aware of what kevin shattenkirk brings. i wanted him last spring and this summer. but that was last spring. things have changed.

is he worth the 6/7 deal, on this team, he's looking for ?

Yes.

can denagelo give us enough to justify that huge cap savings ?

Probably not. We're talking about the difference between a definitive 1RD, 1PPQB and a 3RD, 2PPQB at best, and a total bust at worst.

is shatty better as 27's partner than 42 would be ?

The fact that you're even asking this as a "legit question" shows you don't understand what Shattenkirk is.

 

[Tawnos]

If only offer sheets were actually used, so many nice targets this summer.
Draisaitl $9.8m x 5 years
Parayko $7.8m/9.8m x 5 years
Kuznetsov $7.8m/9.8m x 5 years
Sheary $3.9m x 5 years.

etc etc...

I hate this "gentlemens agreement" among GMs, it's so boring.

Edit: 5 years because of how the compensation formula works.

The compensation is too weak for teams not to match. Since the 1995 lockout, nearly every high profile offer sheet has been matched anyway.

Tkachuk
Sakic
Ohlund
Fedorov
Vanek
Backes
Hjalmarsson
Weber
O'Reilly

The only accepted one was Dustin Penner. Shayne Corson and Chris Gratton were accepted then traded back, making the compensation for RFAs essentially part of a trade.

By the way, the Rangers offer sheeted Stu Grimson in 1995. 5 years with a $500k average. Random fact of your day.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Gordie dropped a nugget on us. Bereglazov wife teaches English. Should help him transition to the USA.

 

[RGY]

Thats quite alright.

The Rangers did not have the highest bid when they signed Brad Richards. The organization, personnel, and location were important. Will be the same factors for Shattenkirk who grew up a Rangers fan.

 

[Tawnos]

Gordie dropped a nugget on us. Bereglazov wife teaches English. Should help him transition to the USA.

I also like the little tidbit about Keenan letting Sather know that Bereglazov had made some strides and was worth looking at.

 

[TheTakedown]

It's interesting because Chicago just traded Hjalmersson with 2 years left because they were afraid of his next contract. Same with Panarin. They are regretting the Seabrook deal for sure. Suter is one that has worked out so far but he was UFA at 28, not 30 like McDonagh will be. Giordano was resigned long term and I think thgat's a contract they will regret pretty soon. Unless McDonagh is willing to discuss a 5 year deal, I'd be inclined to consider moving him now.

Obviously the return would need to be exceptional.

I'd probably look at something like:

Honka + Heiskenen + DAL 1st + DAL 2nd

10/10 post

 

[TheTakedown]

I'd rather load up on multiple pieces as I don't see a center remotely available worth McDonagh.

Tyler Seguin says hi

 

[Savant]

Tyler Seguin says hi

Seguin is available?