So what's your offer for Stepan ?
A 1st and crouse for example is not enough . He's a 1a/b C . Not every team has a star
Speculation: Roster Building Thread DCLXXVIII: Down to the wire!
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So what's your offer for Stepan ?
A 1st and crouse for example is not enough . He's a 1a/b C . Not every team has a star
Amazing Kreiderman
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Personally, if we get anything less than Dvorak + 7 OA, I'd be disappointed. This is more a buyer's deal from Arizona's POV rather than a seller's deal for us.
DutchShamrock
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TheBloodyNine
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Amazing Kreiderman
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The thing with Stepan is that it's difficult to find comparable trades to look at. Most centers either had fewer years left, or a NTC (Kesler, Spezza etc)
I Eat Crow
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When I look at what Stepan's trade value, I look at what Jordan Staal yielded from Carolina. Brandon Sutter, Brian Dumolin, and the 8th overall pick.
A young center with top 9 potential, a defensive prospect with top 4 potential, and the 8th overall pick.
Dvorak, DeAngelo, and 7th overall would be equivalent and more than fair. If the Rangers can't get that from Phoenix, I'd rather keep Stepan.
A young center with top 9 potential, a defensive prospect with top 4 potential, and the 8th overall pick.
Dvorak, DeAngelo, and 7th overall would be equivalent and more than fair. If the Rangers can't get that from Phoenix, I'd rather keep Stepan.
DutchShamrock
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If Raanta isn't taken by Vegas, it's Stepan and Raanta for dvorak, a high prospect, 23 OA and depending on our Vegas loss either Holland or duclair (Lindberg or fast respectively). I would forego the prospect and pick for domi.
Amazing Kreiderman
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ROR and Staal are decent comparables, i'd say we should expect a bit less though because Stepan is older then both ROR and Staal was at the time, they still had perceived upside.
So remove like the value of one asset i'd say and we're close to ball park.
So remove like the value of one asset i'd say and we're close to ball park.
UAGoalieGuy
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UAGoalieGuy
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Well yeah, that can be done... Also can't compare asset for asset like that, i'd argue Dvorak > Sutter at that time so that probably means #7 becomes #23 etc etc...
But those are both pretty decent comparables is applied correctly and with some objectivity.
But as a base, 1 young NHL ready asset, and another good asset, be it a pick or a prospect.
Amazing Kreiderman
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Jordan Staal had 1 year left on a 4m contract, was going to be UFA
Ryan O'Reilly had 1 year left on a 6m contract was going to be UFA
Derek Stepan has 4 years left at 6.5m
To me, that makes Stepan more valuable
Fairly sure both Sabres (ROR) and Canes (Staal) got to discuss contract extensions before they made the trades, which imo nullifies that part.
So no, i don't think Stepan is more valuable, i think he's less valuable but both those deals are good comparables if we take off our NYR tinted glasses
UAGoalieGuy
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Former #11 pick with a 30+ and 40+ point season under his belt. Compared to a late second round pick with one decent season under his belt.
Think it's debatable as to comparing the values at the time of the trade.
I'd rather Wood then DeAngelo because of DeAngelo being an *******, and depends on the something...
I'd think Gorton would like the main piece to rather be the NHL ready asset and will push for that, but we'll see who breaks first i guess
A deal around #7 could definitely work, but yeah, Gorton would likely push for an NHL ready young asset as the main piece over that if possible.
Amazing Kreiderman
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Fairly sure both Sabres (ROR) and Canes (Staal) got to discuss contract extensions before they made the trades, which imo nullifies that part.
So no, i don't think Stepan is more valuable, i think he's less valuable but both those deals are good comparables if we take off our NYR tinted glasses
Well, then there's the case of O'Reilly who was in a different situation compared to Stepan. O'Reilly wanted out, Stepan doesn't HAVE to go.
DutchShamrock
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Carolina had a stronger footing in my opinion. Pittsburgh had more of a need to move Staal (top 6 center behind arguably 2 top 10 centers all time). Not a strong, pressing need mind you, just more than us. Carolina had guys that won still there, they seem to land free agents easier than AZ. The cap was lower and pitt simply couldn't afford going long term with those 3 centers so they jumped on a deal early.
AZ is trying to acquire our #1, not #3. Stepan is proven whereas Staal still had more to show, prove he could handle more.
That's fair, i'd still say you'd atleast have to remove one asset even if Dvorak = Sutter. Because Staal > Stepan in trade value at that time IMO.
I'd rather Wood then DeAngelo because of DeAngelo being an *******, and depends on the something...
I'd think Gorton would like the main piece to rather be the NHL ready asset and will push for that, but we'll see who breaks first i guess
A deal around #7 could definitely work, but yeah, Gorton would likely push for an NHL ready young asset as the main piece over that if possible.
DeAngelo is an NHLer now, especially if you can have him on the 3rd pairing and PP behind Smith and Shatty. You don't want Murphy because he's signed. Chychrun isn't available. Wood has yet to play an NHL game, he's a wildcard. I don't see Gorton taking the risk in the deal with Wood, I think he'd vastly prefer DeAngelo in such a scenario.
Are Hickey's rights of interest?
UAGoalieGuy
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Wait what?! Stepan has never had less then 40 points in a season and has had 50 give Times including the last 4 straight seasons.
Staals best season was 40 points 1 time prior to being dealt.
You guys can disagree if you want to, but i'd say that both ROR and Staal were more valuable when moved then Stepan is now.
I think both trades are good comparables though and it's a good base when discussing out potential return.
BUT, i think we need to tone down expectations a bit, not to the level that Yotes fans want us but i'd be EXTREMELY surprised if we even get close to something like Dvorak/Strome + #7 + Wood/DeAngelo/Fischer.
More likely something looking like Dvorak/Strome + #23/prospect + MAYBE minor add or #7 + prospect + maybe another prospect or pick.
I think both trades are good comparables though and it's a good base when discussing out potential return.
BUT, i think we need to tone down expectations a bit, not to the level that Yotes fans want us but i'd be EXTREMELY surprised if we even get close to something like Dvorak/Strome + #7 + Wood/DeAngelo/Fischer.
More likely something looking like Dvorak/Strome + #23/prospect + MAYBE minor add or #7 + prospect + maybe another prospect or pick.
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