Speculation: Roster Building Thread DCLXXVIII: Down to the wire!

[ManUtdTobbe]

Don't get me wrong, I rather have a pick than Crouse... But jas was suggesting Crouse/DeAngelo and if I have to pick one of those 2, it will be Crouse.

If you have to pick one of those 2, you pick Wood ;P Or Fischer or Garland, want no part of Crouse and DeAngelo is a head case so don't want him either.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I know Greeley is no longer on the Rangers website. His Linkedin account has not changed. The Rangers are still listed as his employer. He was right below Gordie Clark on the page. Someone put Jed Ortmeyer right below Clark.

I think my LinkedIn account still has my employer from 2009 as my current employer.

If you have to pick one of those 2, you pick Wood ;P

Oh yeah! Grab Wood

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Yeah, i'd trust the NYR page over Greeleys personal LinkedIn, but to each their own.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think you guys are crazy if you think you are getting Dvorak. That's Tippett's favorite player and a homegrown gem. You've collectively been sold a narrative that AZ is in a rush. The Coyotes are not. You've been told they'll give up prime bluechips. They won't. You've been told they're frustrated by losing. Perhaps a bit, but that's what happens when you rebuild. The Coyotes just traded away a steady goaltender for peanuts because they want to get younger with more upside. Trading multiple youngsters goes against that. Stepan doesn't make the Coyotes a playoff team.

Look at the trash roster the team was willing to ice last year. That isn't going to change next year, as there is more youth to integrate. Chayka has said they are more than willing to struggle if it means young players get experience. They have not, to date, traded away any of the core young players despite the temptation to do so and the fans fear that Dave Tippett will lose patience. To his credit, he hasn't. He isn't about to now, and his power within the organization is at an all time low thanks to a change in ownership.

To be honest, I don't blame you guys for expecting the moon here. Stepan is a pretty solidly valuable guy in trade, and the Rangers are in no rush to dump him. I have no idea why you guys would move him. But I think it's a real big stretch to think you'll get anything from the Domi/Strome/Dvorak/Keller tier.

I'm okay with something near 7 straight up for Stepan. I think there's some pieces the Coyotes can afford to lose like 23, Murphy, Hickey's rights, Merkley, Wood etc... that might interest the Rangers. But why trade Stepan at all? Aren't you going for it? Doesn't really make any sense to me. Stepan will get you closer than Kevin effing Shattenkirk...

Stepan's more valuable than the 7th pick. So unless its something like 7th+Fischer, I don't think we should even consider it.

 

[DutchShamrock]

So uh, I've been scouting both our roster building thread and Arizona's. Conclusion: We want too much and they want to give away too little. If a Stepan trade happens, one side of fans will probably inevitably be disappointed.

They refuse to believe 1) we don't have to trade Stepan, 2) they dont need to add a vet presence to their youth, 3) they will have no problem reaching the cap floor.

Sure, they can just over pay their free agents. And then have an issue when everyone on their team is $1m or 2 over paid or made that the 3rd line wing is making more than the top center. Chayka has to be smarter than that.

 

[XX]

Stepan's more valuable than the 7th pick. So unless its something like 7th+Fischer, I don't think we should even consider it.

Fischer is probably off the table simply due to dire organizational need. I could see the price creeping up to where someone like Perlini is included. Or instead of a Perlini/Fischer tier guy, a ton of useful other stuff that the Rangers want. The Coyotes can afford to give up a ton of pure value but not some key bluechips.

I don't know why Gorton would trade Stepan for 7 to begin with. Doesn't help the team in the near future.

They refuse to believe 1) we don't have to trade Stepan, 2) they dont need to add a vet presence to their youth, 3) they will have no problem reaching the cap floor.
.

The Coyotes don't have to trade for Stepan either. It's really a sniff around for a good price type deal. Reaching the floor has never been a problem. The vet presence thing is way oversold.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Reaching the floor won't be an issue, i'm sure older UFAs like Vrbata are fine signing short term for big money, which fits well for Yotes.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Fischer is probably off the table simply due to dire organizational need. I could see the price creeping up to where someone like Perlini is included. Or instead of a Perlini/Fischer tier guy, a ton of useful other stuff that the Rangers want. The Coyotes can afford to give up a ton of pure value but not some key bluechips.

I don't know why Gorton would trade Stepan for 7 to begin with. Doesn't help the team in the near future.

Which is why we won't trade Stepan for just 7OA. Add Dvorak and a prospect to the deal and it gets closer to what the Rangers probably want.

The Coyotes don't have to trade for Stepan either. It's really a sniff around for a good price type deal. Reaching the floor has never been a problem. The vet presence thing is way oversold.

On the contrary. Around here, people think prospects have way more value than is realistically true. Stepan is a 7-year veteran who is only 27, played in the Olympics, captained his team to gold at the World Juniors, played in a Cup final, 2 conference finals and has been part of one of the most successful teams in the NHL since joining the league.

Reaching the floor won't be an issue, i'm sure older UFAs like Vrbata are fine signing short term for big money, which fits well for Yotes.

Chayka needs to do something because as you said, overpaying some middle-6 free agents will create problems in the lockerroom

 

[XX]

Which is why we won't trade Stepan for just 7OA. Add Dvorak and a prospect to the deal and it gets closer to what the Rangers probably want.

7+Dvorak+Prospect is not reasonable.

Chayka needs to do something because as you said, overpaying some middle-6 free agents will create problems in the lockerroom

I don't know where you guys get this.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Chayka needs to do something because as you said, overpaying some middle-6 free agents will create problems in the lockerroom

I didn't say that, i said reaching the floor isn't a problem for Yotes, i don't think that's a good argument at all...

I do think Stepan would be a nice add for Yotes and that he makes sense for so many reasons though, reaching the floor isn't one of those reasons.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

7+Dvorak+Prospect is not reasonable.

But we aren't talking about a trade for reasonable returns. We are talking about Arizona wanting a player the Rangers do not HAVE to get rid of. This isn't a cap dump.

And Stepan is a 27-year old first line center, signed for another 4 years, at 6.5m, who puts up 55 points a season and plays all 3 situations, is a top-10 player in GF% since entering the league and brings a lot of experience.

I don't know where you guys get this.

Arizona can't just go on the way they have now. Look at Edmonton. You can't have top-5 picks for 5 straight years, add some free agents for 4m a year and expect it to go well. And if you are going to sign players for relatively big contracts while they play a middle-six role is probably not going to go over well with the team. Arizona isn't in a position where free agents are eager to sign with them if they have other teams to choose from

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I didn't say that, i said reaching the floor isn't a problem for Yotes, i don't think that's a good argument at all...

I do think Stepan would be a nice add for Yotes and that he makes sense for so many reasons though, reaching the floor isn't one of those reasons.

Ah, I misunderstood you there, but I feel that isn't a good way to go at it anyway.

 

[DutchShamrock]

The Coyotes don't have to trade for Stepan either. It's really a sniff around for a good price type deal. Reaching the floor has never been a problem. The vet presence thing is way oversold.

Sniff around is a euphemism for going to the press and saying I want a right hand shot center in a trade, right?

Ok, so let's assume the vet thing is overblown. What about the OEL factor, going ufa in 2 years? A thought was management wanted to start bringing in pieces now to show him they are committed to winning.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Ah, I misunderstood you there, but I feel that isn't a good way to go at it anyway.

I mean, if they're content with continuing the rebuild for another year or two then it is a good way.

I don't think they should be content with that though, they should imo start building now so they can contend while their top prospects are cheap, that's my opinion.

We'll see in a few weeks which direction Chayka and Tippett wants to go.

Ok, so let's assume the vet thing is overblown. What about the OEL factor, going ufa in 2 years? A thought was management wanted to start bringing in pieces now to show him they are committed to winning.

This is another good point as to why Yotes really should be starting to build instead of keep rebuilding.

 

[XX]

But we aren't talking about a trade for reasonable returns. We are talking about Arizona wanting a player the Rangers do not HAVE to get rid of. This isn't a cap dump.

I didn't say it was. And I totally buy that it's a player the Rangers aren't "dumping" but at the same time, they're obviously listening. I'm just asking you to buy that the Coyotes are always kicking tires, but they're not going to do something extremely stupid for the sake of optics, the arena, the kids, or whatever narrative you want to go with. AZ is not desperate. Chayka was not hired to make desperate trades. Just look at his resume to date.

Arizona can't just go on the way they have now. Look at Edmonton. You can't have top-5 picks for 5 straight years, add some free agents for 4m a year and expect it to go well.

The problem has been with the vets over the last few years, actually. They've traded Smith and Hanzal, bought out Vermette, will let Michalek walk etc... and all of that is likely to encourage Doan to retire. They want OEL and Domi to be the leaders going forward and for the kids to take ownership of the team.

There will always be mercenary UFAs, dead money contracts, and overpaid players out there for little to no acquisition cost to hit the floor. If the Coyotes are going to pull out of the basement, it's going to be with ELC talent, not trading youngsters for older players. There is no immediate pressure to win next year. Fans are expecting the team to be bottom five again, but so long as the kids are improving, nobody really minds.

I think you guys are expecting to bend AZ over and I just don't see it. Maloney isn't there anymore.

Ok, so let's assume the vet thing is overblown. What about the OEL factor, going ufa in 2 years? A thought was management wanted to start bringing in pieces now to show him they are committed to winning.

OEL has shown no desire to leave and signed a team friendly deal without any pain last time. He's in line to be a franchise player and get whatever he wants contractually from the Coyotes. He idolizes Nick Lidstrom. I don't think he's going anywhere. This isn't the NBA where you "bring in pieces" over one summer and pray it works.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Sniff around is a euphemism for going to the press and saying I want a right hand shot center in a trade, right?

Ok, so let's assume the vet thing is overblown. What about the OEL factor, going ufa in 2 years? A thought was management wanted to start bringing in pieces now to show him they are committed to winning.

When they traded Yandle for futures, I could understand because OEL was 23, and had 4 years left on his contract. Now, they are in a position where OEL is basically Yandle in March. 1 year left on his contract, and no RFA status. Are they going to re-sign OEL, or trade him at the deadline to go full rebuild? This off-season will show Chayka's intention. If they do go after Raanta and Stepan, it's safe to say they will do whatever they can to extend OEL.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

There will always be mercenary UFAs, dead money contracts, and overpaid players out there for little to no acquisition cost to hit the floor. If the Coyotes are going to pull out of the basement, it's going to be with ELC talent, not trading youngsters for older players. There is no immediate pressure to win next year. Fans are expecting the team to be bottom five again, but so long as the kids are improving, nobody really minds.

I think you guys are expecting to bend AZ over and I just don't see it. Maloney isn't there anymore.

If this is really the case, Stepan won't be traded then

 

[XX]

If this is really the case, Stepan won't be traded then

Why would the Rangers entertain a futures trade for Stepan at all?

 

[Ghost of jas]

Sniff around is a euphemism for going to the press and saying I want a right hand shot center in a trade, right?

Ok, so let's assume the vet thing is overblown. What about the OEL factor, going ufa in 2 years? A thought was management wanted to start bringing in pieces now to show him they are committed to winning.

Again, just remember how we were lectured by CBJ fans that if the Rangers wanted Nash, Stepan and Kreider were going to have to be in the deal, and there was no way Dubinsky and Anisimov were going to cut it.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Why would the Rangers entertain a futures trade for Stepan at all?

I think we went over this twice already. Dvorak + 7OA would be a deal good enough to accept. It gives us a young center and a top-10 pick to be competitive in a few years. If Chayka doesn't want to give that up, the Rangers will just go with the center depth they have now and improve defense by signing Shattenkirk.

 

[DutchShamrock]

When they traded Yandle for futures, I could understand because OEL was 23, and had 4 years left on his contract. Now, they are in a position where OEL is basically Yandle in March. 1 year left on his contract, and no RFA status. Are they going to re-sign OEL, or trade him at the deadline to go full rebuild? This off-season will show Chayka's intention. If they do go after Raanta and Stepan, it's safe to say they will do whatever they can to extend OEL.

Full rebuild? What have I been seeing out there?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Again, just remember how we were lectured by CBJ fans that if the Rangers wanted Nash, Stepan and Kreider were going to have to be in the deal, and there was no way Dubinsky and Anisimov were going to cut it.

Technically, they were right. They got D-stud Timmy Erixon and a 1st

 

[Ghost of jas]

Why would the Rangers entertain a futures trade for Stepan at all?

Why would the Rangers trade Derrick Brassard for Mika Zibanejad? It's called re-tooling. The Rangers won't rebuild, but they will integrate younger players into the lineup to replace "aging" players. Stepan likely has max value right now. After years of "going for it", they also need to replenish the farm system. They can trade Stepan and add younger assets, while still competing.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Full rebuild? What have I been seeing out there?

Their trades the last few years screamed rebuild, but now they are linked to actual top-6 players to add to the prospects they have. It just feels like a now-or-never scenario for them, considering OEL and his contract situation. If they add some quality players now, they can extend OEL. Otherwise, I don't see it happening.

And will Doan ever retire?

 

[DutchShamrock]

OEL has shown no desire to leave and signed a team friendly deal without any pain last time. He's in line to be a franchise player and get whatever he wants contractually from the Coyotes. He idolizes Nick Lidstrom. I don't think he's going anywhere. This isn't the NBA where you "bring in pieces" over one summer and pray it works.

I'm sorry, that's not a plan. That's just hoping for the best and your franchise player just completely acts in your favor. Lidstrom is his idol? So he does or doesn't value playing in the post season and winning cups?

We didn't invent the vet presense talk or the OEL storyline. We didn't go to the press and say the coyotes want a right hand center. That's all taking points starting out there. But whatever, we can debate until we're blue in the face, it won't influence their decisions in the least.