Speculation: Roster Building Thread DCLXXVII: Derek Stepan Trade-A-Palooza

[mike14]

Is that considered an intangible?

Unknown, but it is considered a dirigible....

 

[JCrusher*]

There's nothing at all wrong with exploring a Stepan trade..

Shattenkirk wants to be here, if the Rangers even come close (and they want him) he's coming here.

I don't think its a given that Shattenkirk is guaranteed to come here. I know they say that in all these reports but who knows really

 

[NickyFotiu]

So a 3 way?:
NYR gets Parayko
STL gets McDavid
EDM gets Stepan and a 2019 2nd

How many 2nd round draft picks can we give up? Id do it but really prefer to the Blues to give up the draft pick instead.

 

[Levitate]

With the right other moves I'm fine with Shattenkirk, I think he got a bit of a raw deal for his playoff performance and I think it's also always very tough to fully integrate into a new team after a trade deadline.

I think I'd generally be more comfortable with acquiring him if the Rangers also made another move for a good RD so it wouldn't be all Shattenkirk top pairing or bust, but instead the Rangers could move players around a bit when necessary

 

[Ail]

I have stated here 10010 times CK is not a office favorite and they will 100% listen to the right offer for him

You are also no longer vetted, so there's that.

 

[DanielBrassard]

There are no guarantees of getting Shattenkirk. If you put your eggs in that basket, what do you do if he goes elsewhere? There's an opportunity here to maximize the value of a player who I wonder what management really thinks about.

If he goes elsewhere, he goes elsewhere.

Don't thinks it's worth trading Stepan for a D that probably won't even be a top pairing D, just because Shattenkirk might not sign here. Like I said, we could trade a winger for a D too, a position we are strong at.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

With the right other moves I'm fine with Shattenkirk, I think he got a bit of a raw deal for his playoff performance and I think it's also always very tough to fully integrate into a new team after a trade deadline.

I think I'd generally be more comfortable with acquiring him if the Rangers also made another move for a good RD so it wouldn't be all Shattenkirk top pairing or bust, but instead the Rangers could move players around a bit when necessary

I think they want 2 RHD instead of re signing Smith since we already have Mcdonagh and Skjei on the left side (and Staal ).

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

There is no guarantee that Shattenkirk comes here, but the Rangers (again if they want him) are the odds on LEAGUE WIDE favorite.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

With the right other moves I'm fine with Shattenkirk, I think he got a bit of a raw deal for his playoff performance and I think it's also always very tough to fully integrate into a new team after a trade deadline.

I think I'd generally be more comfortable with acquiring him if the Rangers also made another move for a good RD so it wouldn't be all Shattenkirk top pairing or bust, but instead the Rangers could move players around a bit when necessary

That is true (plus playing with Orpik will make no one look good), but honestly thats been the case for most of his playoff runs (with the exception of the 2016 one, that one was pretty good.) That worries me a lot.

But like you said, if the Rangers can bring someone else in along with KS, it should be done.

 

[Tawnos]

If he goes elsewhere, he goes elsewhere.

Don't thinks it's worth trading Stepan for a D that probably won't even be a top pairing D, just because Shattenkirk might not sign here. Like I said, we could trade a winger for a D too, a position we are strong at.

Wingers are the lowest value position in trade. I have a hard time seeing a winger trade for a D that results in a net positive for the team.

 

[Ail]

Wingers are the lowest value position in trade. I have a hard time seeing a winger trade for a D that results in a net positive for the team.

What about the trade Tampa just made 24 hours ago?

 

[Tawnos]

What about the trade Tampa just made 24 hours ago?

Montreal didn't give up a single NHL asset in that deal.

 

[Griffinbw]

What about the trade Tampa just made 24 hours ago?

Read on SN that they're hoping Drouin can play center

 

[Mac n Gs]

Has anything been rumored today other than Vatanen, Hamonic, and Brodin's names being rumored?

Montreal didn't give up a single NHL asset in that deal.

Sergachev played 4 games with the Habs this year

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Montreal didn't give up a single NHL asset in that deal.

Thats true, but they did give up arguably the best D prospect in the game who isn't playing in the league right now and does have NHL game experience (even if it is a paltry 4 games.)

Thats a pretty fantastic return for an asset that you've been looking to move for over a year now. If the Rangers were open to moving Zuccarello or Miller, I'm confident that they'd be able to land a pretty good defenseman.

 

[bernmeister]

Would need someone exempt from expansion. Maybe a deal centered around vesey? Minnesota has enough depth at center that they could take a winger

No, including because....

Vesey is going nowhere. They would never land a college UFA again. Hayes, Gorts and Drury went all out to get him. Hayes would be livid. Wouldn't look good for the NYR plus I like Vesey a lot and think he showed signs of a 50+PT wing this year.

... of this^.

Fitzy Proposal-
Derek Stepan
Rick Nash (50%)
for
Tomas Tatar
Dylan Larkin

Seems light on our end, but food for thought. I've always wanted Tatar on this team.

Would add seriously to Stepan for Larkin, but he is local Detroit fave, 111% not going anywhere

 

[JT Kreider]

There's so much wrong with this, holy ****... I'm too tired to break it down, i just think you're very very wrong.

The teams in the East and their 1c:

PIT: Crosby
WSH: Backstrom
CBJ: Wennberg as a 22 year old in his 2nd season outscored Stepan's career best point total
NYI: Tavares
NJD: Stepan is better than their 1C._ for now
CAR: Stepan is better than Rask
PHI: Giroux

BOS: Bergeron
BUF: Eichel
DET: Stepan is better than Larkin.. for now
FLA: Barkov
MTL: Galchenyuk break out is coming and it seems most non-NYR fans take him over Stepan
OTT: Turris
TBL: Stamkos
TOR: Matthews

There, I broke it down for you myself. There is one team in the entire East that I take Stepan over their 1c.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Thats true, but they did give up arguably the best D prospect in the game who isn't playing in the league right now and does have NHL game experience (even if it is a paltry 4 games.)

Thats a pretty fantastic return for an asset that you've been looking to move for over a year now. If the Rangers were open to moving Zuccarello or Miller, I'm confident that they'd be able to land a pretty good defenseman.

I'd move Miller before Stepan for a top defenseman, unless we can adequately replaced Stepan at center somehow as well.. but I wouldn't move him for say Vatanen.

Miller is gonna get relatively expensive soon too..

 

[bernmeister]

Assuming Zibanejad comes close to hitting his ceiling, Zib-Stepan 1-2 down the middle is good enough to win. The problem with the team isn't the forwards. Trading Stepan opens up an enormous hole, and although theoretically he could bring a top-pairing RHD back, now who plays in the top six? Hayes?

And from there, the Rangers lose their 1C. Who plays the big minutes against the top opponents at even strength and on the PK? Now the Rangers don't have a 1C, and they need an elite one to contend, so what assets are available to trade in a creative hockey trade to get that 1C? Your answer: Kreider, Zucc, extended Zib, the RHD we theoretically traded Stepan for, McDonagh, Skjei and Miller. Miller and secondary assets won't get back an elite C. You create one problem by fixing another, it's a giant step sideways.

The Rangers need to play to their strengths. Stepan isn't elite, but Stepan-Zibanejad-Hayes-Lindberg down the middle 1-4 is one of the NHL's best foursomes. Assuming Lindberg isn't poached by Vegas, it exists for one more season. Miller can also play C in a pinch. What they should be doing more is not thinking about moving Stepan, as much as fixing the cap situation through other means. This means attaching assets (first-round pick and prospects) with Staal to move his contract. That means looking at Phil Kessel/Maple Leafs situation with Rick Nash. Our wing depth is really good. Kreider, Zucc are good top-six players. Vesey will hopefully take a step forward, as will Buchnevich with minutes. Maybe Miller takes another.

For anybody who watched the games, it was evident the forwards are good enough to win. It came down to our defensemen being deployed incorrectly. For a group to be consistently in the top five in GF each season, to have the bad Corsi/Shot Differential #s they did, it means this was strictly a coach/D issue. With Girardi gone, give that money to Smith. From there, figure out the best course to open up the cap space needed to sign Shattenkirk. I think the rest of our depth is still a huge strength. Moving Stepan doesn't fix anything, even if you like to believe opening up his cap space is important. Zibanejad and Hayes is not good enough to win a Stanley Cup, and now you have no open resources available to go out and get a 1C. Organizations should always play to their strengths.

We do not have enough horses.
We are NOT good enough.
We need to win each trade if possible, notwithstanding the odd deal here or there for flexibility either as to roster or cap/

Make each deal for the best return possible.
If you have too much surplus/imbalance, deal afterwards some more from position of strength.

 

[Ola]

I really don't understand trading Stepan for a D. It creates a huge hole at C. Fix one hole, but create another.

Create a hole, fix a hole, rob peter to pay Paul, in the end -- we can twist and turn things to try to make it fit -- it won't. I don't think anyone even think it will. Nobody is claiming that we -- will -- win a Cup next season. Or really the year after that.

What are the arguments for keeping Stepan? 1. It's not his fault. 2. We can't match up against Crosby. 3. He won't fall of a cliff. 4. We might fix a problem but would create a new one.

The legitimate question is -- will we win with this group? If not -- what is the best alternative to build 2-3 years down the line? Shake things up and regain ground so that we can go for it again. We have a lot of assets on the roster.

Stepan will probably -- not even remotely -- ever be as valuable as he is today. Next time he can be moved he will be 29, 15 teams are off the list.

I think the argument you make to keep him actually is a much better argument for moving Stepan. You are right, no matter what Gorton does his summer -- there will be holes some place or another on the roster. There is no fix. Make the best value moves. We have an asset that we can move now for a good value, a move that certainly would put us in a better position in coming years, while it probably only really will cost us a bit next season when we still aren't winning anything.

Without Stepan, out center position is still 15x as strong as our RD position is right now. Trade him for one of those young RDs we need.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

Create a hole, fix a hole, rob peter to pay Paul, in the end -- we can twist and turn things to try to make it fit -- it won't. I don't think anyone even think it will. Nobody is claiming that we -- will -- win a Cup next season. Or really the year after that.

What are the arguments for keeping Stepan? 1. It's not his fault. 2. We can't match up against Crosby. 3. He won't fall of a cliff. 4. We might fix a problem but would create a new one.

The legitimate question is -- will we win with this group? If not -- what is the best alternative to build 2-3 years down the line? Shake things up and regain ground so that we can go for it again. We have a lot of assets on the roster.

Stepan will probably -- not even remotely -- ever be as valuable as he is today. Next time he can be moved he will be 29, 15 teams are off the list.

I think the argument you make to keep him actually is a much better argument for moving Stepan. You are right, no matter what Gorton does his summer -- there will be holes some place or another on the roster. There is no fix. Make the best value moves. We have an asset that we can move now for a good value, a move that certainly would put us in a better position in coming years, while it probably only really will cost us a bit next season when we still aren't winning anything.

Without Stepan, out center position is still 15x as strong as our RD position is right now. Trade him for one of those young RDs we need.

Do they have enough cap room to keep all the Fs they had last year (4th in the league in scoring) re sign Smith and bring in Shattenkirk? say if they move Holden?.. I think its close to doable with the cap expected to rise a bit too.

There wouldn't be any "holes" (other than a top line 1C but that's not coming anyway) the question would then become are they good enough?

 

[Griffinbw]

Do they have enough cap room to keep all the Fs they had last year (4th in the league in scoring) re sign Smith and bring in Shattenkirk? say if they move Holden?.. I think its close to doable with the cap expected to rise a bit too.

If Klein retires, yes.
18 million in space
4.5 to smith
5 to Zibanejad
7 to Shattenkirk
1.5 to whichever of Lindberg/Fast is not selected by Vegas

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The teams in the East and their 1c:

PIT: Crosby
WSH: Backstrom
CBJ: Wennberg as a 22 year old in his 2nd season outscored Stepan's career best point total
NYI: Tavares
NJD: Stepan is better than their 1C._ for now
CAR: Stepan is better than Rask
PHI: Giroux

BOS: Bergeron
BUF: Eichel
DET: Stepan is better than Larkin.. for now
FLA: Barkov
MTL: Galchenyuk break out is coming and it seems most non-NYR fans take him over Stepan
OTT: Turris
TBL: Stamkos
TOR: Matthews

There, I broke it down for you myself. There is one team in the entire East that I take Stepan over their 1c.

You just listed 3 teams and then say that you'd only take him over 1 center in the East?

I'd take him over all of the bolded. Stamkos never plays and Galchenyuk might be better soon, but we'll wait and see.

I guess defense doesn't matter at all to you though.

 

[LaffyTaffyNYR]

If Klein retires, yes.
18 million in space
4.5 to smith
5 to Zibanejad
7 to Shattenkirk
1.5 to whichever of Lindberg/Fast is not selected by Vegas

5M might be a lot for Zibanejad unless he's willing to sign something like a Brassard like deal of 5 years.

Think we can get Smith for 4M

Think we can get Shattenkirk for 6M. (only us tho).

 

[JT Kreider]

You just listed 3 teams and then say that you'd only take him over 1 center in the East?

I'd take him over all of the bolded. Stamkos never plays and Galchenyuk might be better soon, but we'll wait and see.

I guess defense doesn't matter at all to you though.

Defense does matter, that is why there are 2nd, 3rd and 4th line centers.