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Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20: Part XXVI

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Oscar Lindberg said:
There’s no way the Blues actually offer a first and Kyrou but if they did, not immediately trading Kreider would be idiotic
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LeBrun is not the best at creating these trade scenarios - I feel like his value is always off a bit. Like you said, if that offer is on the table, the deal would be done already. It's always possible that offers get better as we get closer to the deadline as pressure ramps up.
 
Ola said:
I am sorry but it only seems like this to you because you obviously don't have insight into how these things work. You are lost after your first mistaken assumption that it has a big impact what Tony D's ask was. In reality Tony D's ask could have been 16m per for 1 year or 2.5m per for 8 years, there was one document presented to him and he could choose between inking that document or go to the KHL almost his entire 20's. His "ask" was completely irrelevant.

Negotiations with players can be divided into two categories post the ELC:
1. When we talk about "leverage" in negotiations this is what is referred to. A player coming of his ELC has very limited leverage. He can only hold out or go and play in Europe or ink whatever offer he gets from his NHL team. There is no other option available. TDA was in that situation. That is not speculation, it is a fact.

2. Once a player gets arbitration rights, he can request arbitration and get what a 3rd party deem is fair for 1-2 years and he can do it until the becomes a UFA at the age of 25 or 27. In this instance, the team has very little leverage. The team cannot force the players hand in any way. It can accept the award, or walk away. But it cannot prevent the player for getting paid fair market value until the player becomes a UFA at the age of 25-27. That is also not speculation, it is a fact.

TDA de facto sorted under the first. It is this opportunity that a GM must take advantage of. And Gorton takes advantage of it for sure, but only to strong arm kids into getting paid nothing for 1-2 years. After that the player gets all the leverage and we are screwed and forced to always trade high value assets for cents on the dollar.

I hope this explains it!

I can also answer all your other arguments, but everyone always complain on that I write so long posts so I try to keep it short. 1. Marner used the little leverage he had, and because he is so good that was enough. He held out, and threatened to hold out the entire season, just like Nylander. Do you think TDA would have forced Gorton's hand and held out for an entire season if Gorton only presented him with a fair 5-6 year deal (say around 4m per)? TDAs wasn't proven, Marner was. 2. What is your point with Ziba, I don't follow? A big advantage for us from Day 1 with Ziba is that he really really really wants to be here, play in NY. It has motivated him off the ice to be devoted enough. It has led to him firing his agent and negotiating his new deal directly with Gorton himself (along with his brother). And just to answer a question nobody have made yet but is sure to come "But oLLa you are lost nobody goes to arbitration why do you talka bout that???" The reason there are so few actual arbitration awards is that it is a very transparent proceeding and everyone knows what the result will be with a marginal margin of error, and hence everyone settle just before it. Fact, not speculation.
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Your facts aren't facts. You seem to forget about two options which throw your premise completely off base. Qualifying offers and offer sheets. A player doesn't just get presented with a single option and its take it or head to the KHL.
 
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Oscar Lindberg said:
Even if Tony wants to go the arbitration route until he’s a UFA, who cares?

Give him one or two year deals and then trade him the year before he goes UFA.

Winnipeg did it with Trouba
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I agree!!!

this arbitration card is ignored so often here. Sign him long term or trade aren’t the only two options.
 
Kovalev27 said:
I don’t know reputation veteran presence no risk on a one year deal could be a stabilizing guy for a rookie you really like or a young guy like DeAngelo. Might be possible to move him this summer. Wouldn’t surprise me let’s put it that way.

we give him a lot of crap but I can count on one hand how many 5 on 5 goals against Staal has been on the ice for in the last 2 months or so.
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He’s been bailed out a ton.

If a dumb GM wants him, great
 
The Red Wings are going to have a mass exodus of defensemen at the end of this season. Darren Helm is a UFA at the end of next season. Brendan Smith for Darren Helm. Make the salaries the same. The Rangers get a 4th line forward in exchange for Smith
 
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RangerBoy said:
LeBrun was saying Kreider would not get a #1 for the Rangers about one month. Three more weeks to the trading deadline.
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I’ve mentioned Kyrou before and it was met with a lot of resistance.

maybe it doesn’t happen but a tomorrow player isn’t as valuable when you can land a guy to help you wi. (Again) today
 
There's a small chance a contender may be interested in Staal next year at the deadline with money retained, but I think those chances are slim. Everyone in the league knows he's cooked so the list of suitors would be very small

The most likely outcome on Staal is he's kept around next year for veteran leadership and to rotate in with some of the younger LD. Just let the contract fizzle out. Or maybe a buyout, but I wouldn't buy him out unless the team absolutely needed the space
 
RangerBoy said:
LeBrun was saying Kreider would not get a #1 for the Rangers about one month. Three more weeks to the trading deadline.
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I love when LeBrun's statements over a multi-week period make little sense:

The Rangers will not a get first rounder for Kreider...

Oh and 8 teams have told the Rangers Kreider is their top priority.

Sweet, sweet Pierre, if indeed 8 teams have expressed the latter, you can rest assured the Rangers are capable of landing the former.

Bonne nuit, Pierre. Get some sleep.
 
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RangerBoy said:
LeBrun was saying Kreider would not get a #1 for the Rangers about one month. Three more weeks to the trading deadline.
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I noticed that as well

Seems like a major course correction to go from "he may not even bring back a first" to "he is worth a first plus a team's best prospect"
 
Thirty One said:
Proud of you.

Does that mean no Kreider in the morning skate though?
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good question I guess we’ll find out shortly if he participates. But the fact he isn’t in his bedroom with the lights out and the shades drawn is very good news.
 
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