Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20: Part XXVI

[Lion Hound]

My favorite line in the movie.

I was part of the real story that inspired Slapshot. I only wish I had hung around for another year in a Syracuse so I could have been part of the movie.

I grew up in walking distance of the LI Arena. The Ducks played there. Their player coach (John Brophy) was where they modeled Reggie Dunlop’s character.

That movie is a damn Masterpiece! So much of it is based on actual events.
The whole “Making the bus look mean” scene. The Johnstown Jets came to Long Island to play the ducks. Heated game. Fans responded by literally flipping and trashing the bus over in the parking lot. It was empty at the time.

Hockey was certainly different back then.

 

[Ola]

1. I am in favor of dealing Strome as much as anyone else, but if there is a sell-off this season — I think we initially next season would pay if we have to build a new line around Panarin. If Strome is kept, much of the core will be the same even if Kreider is dealt. Think there will be a bit of an urgency to get into the POs and there is probably a good reason for that.

2. Everyone likes Kreider and I wouldn’t be super worried about him long-term.

Definitely think he should be dealt. BUT, dealing him now and then resigning him in July would be a pill a lot less tough to swallow than resigning him immediately.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I feel more comfortable paying Kreider for his next contract than I do paying Brady Skjei his current contract and whatever the cost for either Ryan Strome or Pavel Buchnevich will be.

 

[Vitto79]

So w 3 scouts who from the Flames are they watching ? Dube , Bennett ?

 

[GAGLine]

Has anyone done the math for 2021 - 2022?
We currently have 14 million allocated...doesn't that leave close to 76 million in cap space?
i am good at math but not cap space math

We have a little under 35 mil committed to 6 players in 2021-22, but there are so many moves that will happen between now and October that will affect that number. Any of Kreider, Strome, Fast, ADA, Lemieux and Georgiev could be re-sign or traded. Skjei or Buchnvich could get traded. Some of those trades could bring back players with significant AAV/term. We could sign free agents.

It's just too hard to predict that far out, given how many unknowns there are right now.

 

[howztheglass]

Does keeping Kreider mean losing ADA ?

I'm trying to figure out away to keep both without losing other players. I believe we have approx 16 million in cap space next year which most would be used for both of them--lets say 13.5-14 million

CK approx 7
ADA approx 6

Maybe a few less coin but close enough.

Staal buyout is a possibility. Shattenkirk's 6.5 cap hit hurts only next year but then drops down to 1.4 the next 2 years

Signing Kreider and ADA would most likely mean Strome and Fast are gone.

Are we trading Buch and or Skjei to upgrade our center position? Yes we also have Georgiev

For all the talk of multiple players being traded signing CK would change the whole deadline and the in flucs of possible additional players.

It can be done but in the end the bigger question is it worth it.

On the fence but out of the 2 me personally I would rather keep ADA and I'm hoping Kreider gets more then we all think.

If Georgiev can bring back Kapenen he could replace CK on the second line and then Kreider gets dealt to the highest bidder.

Money will be there for ADA and Strome. Still believe we deal Fast.

While I like it I don't believe Strome will bring back Greenway plus from Minnesota.

Just some random thoughts this morning.

 

[Fitzy]

The trade a player at the deadline then sign then in July is extremely, extremely rare. You can count the significant instances in the cap era on one hand.

 

[NYSPORTS]

I think the Rangers should send both ADA and Strome through arbitration for one year deals. Flash forward a year and we can see:

- has anybody developed to replace them?
- are either worth signing long term.
- trade them as rentals

unless a great offer is out there, I send them through arbitration b/c we don’t have prospects to replace them yet (more so Strome)

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

The trade a player at the deadline then sign then in July is extremely, extremely rare. You can count the significant instances in the cap era on one hand.

I can see it with fast if they do move him

 

[doomscroll]

Phew

Kreider has well-toned temple muscles, what an animal.

 

[pld459666]

These are what this team needs moving forward

I hated those thing . Both colors.

 

[Minmonster]

At a bare minimum this is what needs to happen before July 1st:

• Kreider dealt before the deadline if they cannot agree on an extension that is less than 7 years and less than $7MM AAV.
• Fast traded before the deadline if they cannot agree on an extension that is less than 5 years and less than $3MM AAV.
• Staal bought out ($2.2MM savings).
• Smith bought out ($1.6MM savings).
• Either Georgiev traded OR Lundqvist:
  • Retires
  • Gets bought out
  • Waives his NTC and gets traded.

Those will determine what happens with ADA, Strome, Buch et al. Probably add into the above trade Skjei but that is more an opinion on my part then a need.

I believe krieder and Fast are going to be traded and the return will be better than anticipated. Bostons window is starting to close and I believe they will be the team willing to overpay. Something like Beecher, a 1st and a bottom 6 NHL player. Fast brings back a late 2nd and he's worth it to a contender that needs a defensive specialist
I would hold on to everyone else until the draft. Buch and stromes values will increase at the end of this year. Strome will be a 70 point player and buch hopefully will finish the year like he did last year
I'd keep Georgie until the draft too for clarity sake. I wonder if there will be any takers for staal or smith 1/2 retained this summer.
As far as Deangelo is concerned I don't trade him unless I get something like Cody glass and a first, Farabee and frost or a petterson type of return.
One thing is clear though, this summer around the draft is going to be very interesting and will tell us a lot about where we are in the rebuild.

 

[Ola]

I feel more comfortable paying Kreider for his next contract than I do paying Brady Skjei his current contract and whatever the cost for either Ryan Strome or Pavel Buchnevich will be.

You definitely should NOT from my POV.

Even if we don’t love how a player plays, if that player is a kid around 24-25 y/o, a handful of years is only a positive for their trade value no matter what the cost, almost.

I have no doubt that Skjei is immensely more valuable today than if he had 1 year left to his last RFA eligible season. And it’s definitely the same with Buch. It is tremendously unlikely that there won’t be a market for him if we lock him up, while it of course would be 10x as good if we locked him up last season.

Just lock around the league. On one side, has there been a single mid-20s guy that couldn’t be traded due to his cap-hit since 05’? Zaitsev could be dealt. Bjugstad could be traded.

On the other side, literary 2/3 of all +31 contracts in the NHL has negative value and can’t be traded.

I know Gorton obviously shares your views. And much rather give long-term deals to guys like Smith, Shatty and co instead of Miller, TDA and the likes. But I just don’t think that approach is justified.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

Noah Hanifin sounds like he's having a brutal year. Buy low candidate?

 

[Trxjw]

Idk if they’re gonna want Hanafin after this game.

What happened there? I remember Hanafin had a ton of hype.

Well that sort of game is why he might be gettable. Great tools but really took a nose dive this year. Flames have some guys knocking on the door.

I see some Skjei there. Bad fit but not a bad player.

 

[Synergy27]

What’s the point of trading Fast? Is he really going to demand too much money? He’s an absolutely perfect depth player and exactly the kind of guy you see on the third line of contending teams.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I believe krieder and Fast are going to be traded and the return will be better than anticipated. Bostons window is starting to close and I believe they will be the team willing to overpay. Something like Beecher, a 1st and a bottom 6 NHL player. Fast brings back a late 2nd and he's worth it to a contender that needs a defensive specialist
I would hold on to everyone else until the draft. Buch and stromes values will increase at the end of this year. Strome will be a 70 point player and buch hopefully will finish the year like he did last year
I'd keep Georgie until the draft too for clarity sake. I wonder if there will be any takers for staal or smith 1/2 retained this summer.
As far as Deangelo is concerned I don't trade him unless I get something like Cody glass and a first, Farabee and frost or a petterson type of return.
One thing is clear though, this summer around the draft is going to be very interesting and will tell us a lot about where we are in the rebuild.

I agree with much of this, but no way is Petterson available for ADA or anyone else on this team not named maybe Panarin. I mean, shit, if we could move Tony straight up, or even with an asset added for a PPG+ 21-y-o center, even @EdJovanovski would have a hard time arguing against the move.

(Though I have no doubt he'd make a valiant effort, just to keep up appearances.)

 

[Minmonster]

I agree with much of this, but no way is Petterson available for ADA or anyone else on this team not named maybe Panarin. I mean, ****, if we could move Tony straight up, or even with an asset added for a PPG+ 21-y-o center, even @EdJovanovski would have a hard time arguing against the move.

(Though I have no doubt he'd make a valiant effort, just to keep up appearances.)

Probably a stretch there with petterson but ADA is very valuable. Replace petterson with necas and a small add and I'd do it.

 

[Fireonk]

Probably a stretch there with petterson but ADA is very valuable. Replace petterson with necas and a small add and I'd do it.

Haha those are wildly different values. Petterson >>>> Necas and a small add. I agree with your premise that ADA requires a huge return to make the trade make sense though.

 

[kovazub94]

Nothing from the improved performance perspective (same as Hayes and Zuke last year) from Kreider, individual players or the team as whole makes me change my mind about moving him if the price tag is more than $6m for 5 years with no NTC in the last two years.

 

[JMan74]

Toronto seems to be the most motivated to trade for Georgiev. Pierre engvall would be my target. Young, cost controlled loves to shoot and has size. All things the rangers need more of especially if Kreider is moved.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I’d be very surprised if the team was looking to commit more dollars to the left side at this point in time

Unless of course a legitimate top pairing guy becomes available. But even then I would have to imagine Skjei would be on the way out at that point

 

[RangersFan1994]

What’s the point of trading Fast? Is he really going to demand too much money? He’s an absolutely perfect depth player and exactly the kind of guy you see on the third line of contending teams.

First time as an UFA why wouldn't he test the market?? The usual type that gets overpaid in the summer. No thanks. I would not give him a Jay Beagle type of contract at 4.0. Maybe some crazy GM would offer a 1st round for Fast and Buchnevich package

 

[JimmyG89]

Toronto seems to be the most motivated to trade for Georgiev. Pierre engvall would be my target. Young, cost controlled loves to shoot and has size. All things the rangers need more of especially if Kreider is moved.

Not saying he's untouchable, but they're probably going to get him cheaper than Johnsson, Kerfoot, or Kapanen for next season and that's what they need. With their higher salaries, they need either ELCs or cheap 2nd deals and Engvall is one of thos those candidates.

Same goes for Timashov, but he hasn't been as good.

Honestly if they got any of those 5, I'd be pretty happy. The better the player the less likely a pick is involved, but we could use one of these guys to push out the guys that aren't that good AND as potential replacements for guys like Kreider and Fast.

 

[kovazub94]

You definitely should NOT from my POV.

Even if we don’t love how a player plays, if that player is a kid around 24-25 y/o, a handful of years is only a positive for their trade value no matter what the cost, almost.

I have no doubt that Skjei is immensely more valuable today than if he had 1 year left to his last RFA eligible season. And it’s definitely the same with Buch. It is tremendously unlikely that there won’t be a market for him if we lock him up, while it of course would be 10x as good if we locked him up last season.

Just lock around the league. On one side, has there been a single mid-20s guy that couldn’t be traded due to his cap-hit since 05’? Zaitsev could be dealt. Bjugstad could be traded.

On the other side, literary 2/3 of all +31 contracts in the NHL has negative value and can’t be traded.

I know Gorton obviously shares your views. And much rather give long-term deals to guys like Smith, Shatty and co instead of Miller, TDA and the likes. But I just don’t think that approach is justified.

I think a good relatively recent player to use as a reference point as a skilled forward is Anisimov (he’s a center but he had played a lot of wing around the same age while the Ranger). Do you remember him back then and what his career turned out to be with Columbus and Chicago? I’d try to compare their games at the same respective points, right now Buchnevich generates significantly higher scoring chances than Anisimov at the same age. On the other hand Buchnevich is also NOT worse than Anisimov away from the puck.

Just trying to put some context on where Buchnevich could be expected to be going in his development.