Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20: Part XXVI

[kinger8998]

If I'm the Rangers and a 1st + roster player (similar to Hayes trade) is on the table for Kreider, I'm taking it. The market is trending towards 1st round picks being traded for players with another year remaining.

I know the value Kreider has to us is a lot. But teams have been reluctant in recent history to move 1sts (see: Zuccarello, Mats).

Best to hope for is a bidding war that makes the 1st + prospect / roster player possible, but I think theres a certain point where you don't trade Kreider.

If recent reports are true, and he would be willing to consider something like 5 @ $6.75M or 6 @ $6.5M, that is a contract that I think is workable. Next season would be difficult, but then $$$ comes off the books and makes it more plausible.

Kreider is a unique player that I'm not sure can be replaced by anyone. If teams are only offering conditional 1sts if he re-signs (likely won't), which means you're only getting a 2nd + a 3rd, if you can have him at the deal above I think you sign it.

Might be in the minority here though.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Personally, what I'd "like" to see:

There's no way I'm trading ADA
Staal + 2nd to a contender for a box of Frosted Flakes
Skjei needs to go. He's not putting it together here.
Sign Kreider, ADA, Lemieux, Fast, Strome, etc... with freed up cap $
Georgiev traded for a 2nd + prospect. Shesterkin is the real deal and you get your 2nd back that you traded with Staal for a ziplock bag full of air.
Keep Buchnevich. I know he's 24, but he's figuring it out. He's having a much better season than his numbers suggest.

highway to cap to hell.

 

[Tawnos]

If I'm the Rangers and a 1st + roster player (similar to Hayes trade) is on the table for Kreider, I'm taking it. The market is trending towards 1st round picks being traded for players with another year remaining.

I know the value Kreider has to us is a lot. But teams have been reluctant in recent history to move 1sts (see: Zuccarello, Mats).

Best to hope for is a bidding war that makes the 1st + prospect / roster player possible, but I think theres a certain point where you don't trade Kreider.

If recent reports are true, and he would be willing to consider something like 5 @ $6.75M or 6 @ $6.5M, that is a contract that I think is workable. Next season would be difficult, but then $$$ comes off the books and makes it more plausible.

Kreider is a unique player that I'm not sure can be replaced by anyone. If teams are only offering conditional 1sts if he re-signs (likely won't), which means you're only getting a 2nd + a 3rd, if you can have him at the deal above I think you sign it.

Might be in the minority here though.

Regarding the low return for Zuccarello last year... you have to remember that last years deadline was an anomaly. There were 10 top-6 forwards traded around deadline time last season (Stone, Duchene, Dzingel, Hayes, Zuccarello, Nyquist, Johansson, Simmonds, Coyle, Granlund). 8 of them were on expiring contracts. The only ones who got 1st round picks were Stone and Duchene, who were a class above, and Hayes, who was the only center among the other 8. Of the 7 wingers, Zuccarello was the only one with conditions that could’ve landed the trading team a 1st. Coyle and Granlund both were 2-playoff rentals. Also, more 1st rounders were moved last year (4) than most other years, though 2 of those were for D.

So, 8 top-6 UFAs last year. 3 this year (Kreider, Toffoli, Pageau). Kreider arguably is the most valuable rental on the market, though Vatanen is also available. I’d be shocked to see him traded in a deal that didn’t net a first, unless there’s a prospect coming back that’s stronger than your Lindgren/Lemieux types. Each year’s individual market matters

 

[haohmaru]

highway to cap to hell.

All competitive teams are in "cap hell". Part of the equation.

 

[Ola]

Outside of San Jose, I don't think there is a franchise that is as ****ed long term as Minnesota.b

The thing is, I think big parts of their roster is much better than the standings show, but I don’t think you can overstate how much of a handicap you get in today’s game with two big bodies that can’t skate at center ice.

Then they have disguised big parts of those shortages by tactically focusing on getting up ice and into those set situations these guys still can function in.

Minny has had a real nightmare run in this regard. First they trapped for soooo long with Lemiere and co after the redline was removed and now they have been caught in this game built around the slowest centers swamp.

 

[kinger8998]

I wonder if theres a deal to be had with Edmonton. Something like Skjei + Buch + Geo this summer.

Edmonton needs wingers. Edmonton hasn't liked what they've seen from Nurse, and DQ has said said he is trying Lindgren with Trouba for a more legitimate shutdown pair.

Thinking maybe Edmonton gets Skjei, Buch and Geo and coming back to us is Nurse, Puljujarvi and 2021 1st?

While we aren't getting necessarily getting better per say in this deal, we are getting a different look. Allows Nurse to pair with Trouba in a real physical pairing. Lets Lindgren slide back down into a more suited role with Fox on second pairing. DeAngelo plays with Staal on 3rd pairing. If Rykov makes team he will need ice so Staal come out, Lindgren plays with Tony and Rykov would slide in with Fox in those cases.

We actually gain Cap space in this, letting us potentially keep Kreider (re-sign him in offseason, althought that rarely happens. We could attempt to get a deal for him at TDL then re-sign or just re-sign if return is underwhelming and deal is right). Sign Nurse long term @ 6 x $4.75M. Sign Tony long term @ 6 x $5.5M. Sign Kreider to5 x $6.75. Trade Fast for 3rd rounder to any contender. Hajek can be traded or placed in minors.

Panarin ($11.6M) - Chytil ($892K) - Strome ($4.75M)
Kreider ($6.75M) - Zibanejad ($5.3M) - Kakko ($925K)
Kravtsov ($925K) - Howden ($892K) - Puljujarvi ($1.75M)
Lemieux ($1.5M) - ??? - ???
???

Nurse ($4.75M) - Trouba ($8.0M)
Lindgren ($900K) - Fox ($925K)
Staal ($5.7M) - DeAngelo ($5.5M)
Rykov ($925K)

Lundqvvist ($8.5M) / Shesterkin ($925K)

Buyouts: Girardi + Shattenkirk ($5.1M)
Minors: Smith ($3.25M)

Cap Ceiling: ~$83.000M
Cap Hit: $79.759M
Cap Space: $3.241M

Leaves ample space to fill out final 3 roster spots with cheap free agent signings similar to Greg McKegg. Staal, Smith, Hank come off books after this, freeing up cap space. Strome would likely be dealt due to Puljujarvi/Kakko/Kravtsov. Assuming Lindgren/Howden taken in exp. Draft to Seattle.

Thoughts on deal? I don't know how fair the trade is? I'm half decent at gauging players values when alone but admittedly not very good when combining players

 

[Ola]

I keep seeing chatter here about Buchnevich being dealt, and it makes me frustrated that people want him gone. Pavel has produced at a pretty high-end second-line rate since he entered the league, and the fact that his production has been so consistent despite facing harder competition these last two season should be viewed as a point of optimism. His checking has improved immensely during his tenure with the Rangers, yet weird expectations about his production fuels trade-talk. The idea of being a perennial 45-point player seems fairly modest, but it’s essentially only achieved by first-liners and some second-liners.

Obviously points don’t tell the whole story, but Buchnevich is far from one-dimensional, and he has solidified himself as a genuine top-six winger since Quinn’s arrival.

The “shoooooot” crowd hates his guts but that is what it is.

I like Buch and if anything think that he could have a lot more in him than he has shown so far. He obviously seem like a kid that wants to do the right things. He is just starting to catch up physically.

Just by comparison, Ziba didn’t perform better than Zucc at the same age, right?

But confidence is obvious a bit of a factor.

 

[haveandare]

In the unlikely event that Kreider stays, Strome (And likely Fast) go. That's just numbers.

So there's your tradeoff. Kreider is older and a riskier signing, and likely gets more at the deadline than Strome gets in the offseason.

That said, despite Strome's minutes, Kreider is the better player and it's looking increasingly like Chytil is going to be ready to take on a 2nd line role sooner than later.

Strome is way riskier to sign imo. Kreider is consistent year to year, it’s game to game that people complain about. Strome is a total unknown year to year

 

[Mac n Gs]

It’s not that I don’t like Buch. I just see Kravtsov as a similar player but one that will be better.

I do not see anyone maybe in the league like Kreider and it’s why teams are drooling to get him. He’s a guy that’s even better come playoff time.

so for me I gladly trade fast and Buchnevich to keep Kreider.

Since you’re one of the more vocal proponents of keeping Kreider, what deal are you willing to give him? Do you go 7x$7M?

 

[Fitzy]

Strome is way riskier to sign imo. Kreider is consistent year to year, it’s game to game that people complain about. Strome is a total unknown year to year

The reason I see Strome as less risky is his youth combined with a willingness to take a shorter deal.

7 years for Kreider takes him to 35.

 

[Avery16]

 

[Ola]

Insider Trading: Kreider in high-demand; Leafs, Muzzin to talk extension

The return for Kreider will be at least as high as for Hayes and 8 teams are in on him according to Dreger.

Which 8 teams are in on Kreider?

Pittsburgh, Boston, STL, Colorado and?

Previous reports had Kreider nixing all Canadian teams with his NTC. Which are the other 4? Philly? Tampa? Carolina? Nashville? Washington? Dallas? Vegas? Arizona?

Any of the Canadian teams having hopes of convincing him? EDM? Tor?

 

[Ola]

“In my eyes, he’s still a young player in this league,” Zibanejad told The Post in speaking of the 24-year-old who is in his third full NHL season. “He’s figuring it out and figuring himself out. He’s getting it more and more and is improving all the time.

“I think he has all the upside in the world.”

Not sure I am so super confident in the front-office’s ability to get this one right...

 

[cheech70]

NY Rangers' Henrik Lundqvist braces for first start in three weeks, trade deadline

Depending on how you read it ...maybe Hank is open to leaving?

 

[NYR Viper]

I suppose, but that leaves us substantively weaker next season.

At what point do we start to "build?"

Right after they’re dealt. I’d probably use the pieces received to target a specific young player who may be available elsewhere. Say, someone like Timo Meier or Clayton Keller or William Nylander.

 

[Lion Hound]

All competitive teams are in "cap hell". Part of the equation.

Thats why the front office gets paid the big bucks!

 

[Crease]

NY Rangers' Henrik Lundqvist braces for first start in three weeks, trade deadline

Depending on how you read it ...maybe Hank is open to leaving?

Creative headlining. The article clarifies that Lundqvist is bracing for another sell-off which would kill playoff hopes.

 

[Lion Hound]

Insider Trading: Kreider in high-demand; Leafs, Muzzin to talk extension

The return for Kreider will be at least as high as for Hayes and 8 teams are in on him according to Dreger.

Which 8 teams are in on Kreider?

Pittsburgh, Boston, STL, Colorado and?

Previous reports had Kreider nixing all Canadian teams with his NTC. Which are the other 4? Philly? Tampa? Carolina? Nashville? Washington? Dallas? Vegas? Arizona?

Any of the Canadian teams having hopes of convincing him? EDM? Tor?

I would think Carolina and Philly both have interest.

 

[NYR Viper]

Strome is way riskier to sign imo. Kreider is consistent year to year, it’s game to game that people complain about. Strome is a total unknown year to year

In fairness, Strome’s career year will be higher than Kreider’s. And it will be by a substantial amount by the time this season is complete more than likely. Strome can also play center or wing as needed.

Not saying I’d sign Stroke for 7 years but if the options are:

Kreider for 7 years at $7m
Or
Strome for 4 years at $5m

I’m going Strome due to cap hit, versatility, age and contract length.

 

[AKA Chief]

Kreider always teases because he has speed and can be physical but he always winds up underwhelming. Should've been moved last season. Trade him.

The only players on expiring contracts that I want to keep are ADA and Lemieux (if still a cheap deal).

 

[Good Intentions]

Kreider is going to net nothing short of an absolute ransom.

I’m a huge Kreider fan (and have been through the scoring droughts) so I’m trying to come to terms with this impending trade.

We are going to get a top-flight prospect and the first round pick. not either. Both.

 

[SA16]

In fairness, Strome’s career year will be higher than Kreider’s. And it will be by a substantial amount by the time this season is complete more than likely. Strome can also play center or wing as needed.

Not saying I’d sign Stroke for 7 years but if the options are:

Kreider for 7 years at $7m
Or
Strome for 4 years at $5m

I’m going Strome due to cap hit, versatility, age and contract length.

In terms of points it will be higher. Kreider is better than him at everything else. And I wouldn't sign either of them regardless.

 

[NYRangers0723]

In terms of points it will be higher. Kreider is better than him at everything else. And I wouldn't sign either of them regardless.

Agreed. Look I like a Strome but lets be honest Panarin is playing a major part of his career year. Panarin is a point machine so of course a Strome will benefit

 

[Mac n Gs]

Not sure I am so super confident in the front-office’s ability to get this one right...

Keeping Buch long-term is such an easy decision. At worst, you have a guy that’s a cost-controlled 45 point second winger. At best, you have a complementary piece that has chemistry with your 1C with 60+ point potential. He’s been such a better all-around player this season that’s had some horrible puck luck.

It’s a good thing that Quinn is well aware of how well he’s played lately and is sticking with him on the top line. They even mentioned how he’s had 30 scoring chances over this last stretch despite only having 2 goals.

 

[haveandare]

In fairness, Strome’s career year will be higher than Kreider’s. And it will be by a substantial amount by the time this season is complete more than likely. Strome can also play center or wing as needed.

Not saying I’d sign Stroke for 7 years but if the options are:

Kreider for 7 years at $7m
Or
Strome for 4 years at $5m

I’m going Strome due to cap hit, versatility, age and contract length.

If those are the options I’d do neither. Strome for 4 years is way too much, he’s a huge wild card eith scoring and if he’s not scoring he’s useless.