Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20 Part XXV

[Avery16]

Probably wouldn't take much for Boston to throw in JFK in any deal, I would think. Quinn coached him for two seasons.

 

[Fitzy]

I'm guessing there would be no two year option for Ryan Strome in an arbitration hearing.

 

[haveandare]

If the return for Kreider is a late, late first and a guy who people don't see as having even middle 6 potential, I'd re-sign him if he'll take something reasonable. You can get a late first for Strome or Buch I'd think.

 

[Edge]

The real value of that Nash trade is a little hard to pin down. It’s complicated by the Rangers taking on Beleskey for 2 full seasons even if the Bruins still retained part of his salary. Essentially, the Rangers sent more than just Nash to them, which makes it hard to judge his ultimate value independently.

And this is also true.

I've also often wondered how a much of a role pedigree played in the perceived value of a "downside of his peak" version of Nash, and how that might be viewed in comparison to a "still in his peak" Kreider.

I think there is some wiggle room for a third component in a Kreider deal, but it's going to be a long-shot/depth piece, if it exists at all.

If the Rangers can maximize the Bruins pick --- either by drafting a player who becomes one of their top 5 prospects or by trading the pick as part of a deal for a core, young piece --- I think a return of a first and Frederic is a good, if unspectacular return for an expiring contract.

It's that last part that we really need to remember.

Yes, Kreider has value.

Yes, Kreider is a unique player.

Yes, Kreider can help a playoff team tremendously.

But, Kreider is still a rental and his service to his acquiring team exists only as long as they continue to play hockey this season. And whether Kreider is a 28 goal, 55 point player, or a 35 goal, 70 point player, there's a limit to how much teams are willing to play --- unless there is unique window which includes an opportunity to extend the player they acquire. However, I do not foresee a circumstance in which a 28/29 year old player, who is months away from achieving unrestricted free agency, waives that right in order to sign a contract.

So we're right back where we started, Kreider is the best rental on the market this year. But he's still very much a rental.

 

[Tawnos]

Is Kreider the best rental? Maybe as a player, but in terms of value... I think Pageau is probably on equal footing and should get a Hayes-like return. Centers get slightly more.

 

[MrPodz]

I still think that kreider gets flipped, we keep the prospect, use the first at draft with maybe tarmo and another player for a star d. Maybe, something like sjkei plus first plus tarmo for someone truly elite. Any ideas?

 

[Zibanejbread]

Is Kreider the best rental? Maybe as a player, but in terms of value... I think Pageau is probably on equal footing and should get a Hayes-like return. Centers get slightly more.

JGP isn't an All-Star though.

 

[Edge]

Is Kreider the best rental? Maybe as a player, but in terms of value... I think Pageau is probably on equal footing and should get a Hayes-like return. Centers get slightly more.

Yeah, barring a team being stacked at the wing, I think most teams would prefer Kreider over Pageau and it's probably not that close.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Is Kreider the best rental? Maybe as a player, but in terms of value... I think Pageau is probably on equal footing and should get a Hayes-like return. Centers get slightly more.

Yeah. Even though somebody likely will, I don't think there's a team out there that's chomping at the bit to hand Kreider a 6-7 year deal. It will effect the return, unfortunately.

 

[Tawnos]

Yeah. Even though somebody likely will, I don't think there's a team out there that's chomping at the bit to hand Kreider a 6-7 year deal. It will effect the return, unfortunately.

No it won’t affect the return. Kreider will get the return a rental in this market should get. This market where there’s one other winger worth anything in Toffoli, as opposed to last years market that had like half a dozen. A first and a prospect is right about where it’ll be. Or a better prospect and a 2nd, which I doubt.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Probably wouldn't take much for Boston to throw in JFK in any deal, I would think. Quinn coached him for two seasons.

I'd prefer him to Frederic TBH.

 

[Avery16]

JGP isn't an All-Star though.

If he had been, he couldn't have had fewer points.

 

[wafflepadsave]

I still think that kreider gets flipped, we keep the prospect, use the first at draft with maybe tarmo and another player for a star d. Maybe, something like sjkei plus first plus tarmo for someone truly elite. Any ideas?

Maybe at the draft, we flip the said 1st and another young player to a rebuilding team.
Anaheim is one possibility.

 

[Edge]

If Quinn is committed to three lines, no matter who he has in the fold, then there's not as much point to either Frederic or a re-signed Fast.

However, if he is willing to deploy a fourth line, if he develops trust and likes the personnel, then I think Frederic would be a component this team could potentially use.

An actual fourth line, filled with players developed for the role and not simply a cast of castaways, has shown it's value to this organization in the past.

 

[RGY]

If Quinn is committed to three lines, no matter who he has in the fold, then there's not as much point to either Frederic or a re-signed Fast.

However, if he is willing to deploy a fourth line, if he develops trust and likes the personnel, then I think Frederic would be a component this team could potentially use.

An actual fourth line, filled with players developed for the role and not simply a cast of castaways, has shown it's value to this organization in the past.

If Quinn is given the competent personnel for a 4th line and still does not use it then he should be fired. This isn’t college hockey. Its a long 82 game season. You need to be able to roll 4 lines.

 

[JimmyG89]

If Quinn is committed to three lines, no matter who he has in the fold, then there's not as much point to either Frederic or a re-signed Fast.

However, if he is willing to deploy a fourth line, if he develops trust and likes the personnel, then I think Frederic would be a component this team could potentially use.

An actual fourth line, filled with players developed for the role and not simply a cast of castaways, has shown it's value to this organization in the past.

I don't think we can ignore the fact that right now we don't really have guys who he trusts on those lines. I'm sure he would love to roll 4 lines and have a 4th line that can matchup against good players or even if it is the other team's good 3rd line.

Right now, with the team being stripped down over the past few years, we don't have that depth yet and we don't have an immediate callups that would drastically improve that line.

When this team develops it's depth, plus has some of these larger deals off the books, and the roster flexibility, I think Quinn will actually roll 4 lines.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I still think that kreider gets flipped, we keep the prospect, use the first at draft with maybe tarmo and another player for a star d. Maybe, something like sjkei plus first plus tarmo for someone truly elite. Any ideas?

My thought is that it will take more than that.

 

[Edge]

I'd prefer him to Frederic TBH.

I think Frederic is getting underrated on here because there's this perception that he's only a fourth line prospect.

And while that's probably true, you could be looking at the difference between a Brian Boyle fourth line career, versus a McGeneric McKegg type fourth career --- and there's a significant difference there.

I also think there's a tendency to downplay Frederic's offensive ability, because he doesn't project as a top six, or maybe even a sure-fire top nine scorer.

But this is a kid who's posted 25 goals and 58 points in the AHL at ages of 20 and 21 years old --- he won't turn 22 for another few weeks.

The works out to about 17 goals and 40 points over a 76 game AHL season --- including a 19 goal pace last season, and a 44 pace this season. So there is some offensive potential there to go along with a north-south, bigger framed center, with an edge.

 

[Edge]

I don't think we can ignore the fact that right now we don't really have guys who he trusts on those lines. I'm sure he would love to roll 4 lines and have a 4th line that can matchup against good players or even if it is the other team's good 3rd line.

Right now, with the team being stripped down over the past few years, we don't have that depth yet and we don't have an immediate callups that would drastically improve that line.

When this team develops it's depth, plus has some of these larger deals off the books, and the roster flexibility, I think Quinn will actually roll 4 lines.

I tend to agree. And if Fast is willing to sign for $3 million or less, and if Frederic is part of the return for Kreider, I think you've got the start of something there.

 

[E-Train]

For Kreider, get me Lauko and fill in from there. I don’t want Heinen, Frederic or JFK as the primary piece.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I think Frederic is getting underrated on here because there's this perception that he's only a fourth line prospect.

And while that's probably true, you could be looking at the difference between a Brian Boyle fourth line career, versus a McGeneric McKegg type fourth career --- and there's a significant difference there.

I also think there's a tendency to downplay Frederic's offensive ability, because he doesn't project as a top six, or maybe even a sure-fire top nine scorer.

But this is a kid who's posted 25 goals and 58 points in the AHL at ages of 20 and 21 years old --- he won't turn 22 for another few weeks.

The works out to about 17 goals and 40 points over a 76 game AHL season --- including a 19 goal pace last season, and a 44 pace this season. So there is some offensive potential there to go along with a north-south, bigger framed center, with an edge.

I don't mind him even if he is a 4th liner, we need help there too and I personally love the idea of him and Lemieux cracking skulls. I don't love him as a center piece of any deal though.

Personally, I like JFK better as a player and think he can play up higher.

 

[NYR]

If Quinn is committed to three lines, no matter who he has in the fold, then there's not as much point to either Frederic or a re-signed Fast.

However, if he is willing to deploy a fourth line, if he develops trust and likes the personnel, then I think Frederic would be a component this team could potentially use.

An actual fourth line, filled with players developed for the role and not simply a cast of castaways, has shown it's value to this organization in the past.

If this clown isn't willing to deploy a 4th line in today's game then he has no business in the NHL..

 

[Edge]

I don't mind him even if he is a 4th liner, we need help there too and I personally love the idea of him and Lemieux cracking skulls. I don't love him as a center piece of any deal though.

Personally, I like JFK better as a player and think he can play up higher.

I don't know if any prospect is going to be the centerpeice of a deal for a rental.

I think a first round pick is probably the "sexiest" option we're looking at. The prospect will be in that Lemieux, Frederic, Lindgren realm.

But that depends on whether Kreider is skewing closer to Nash, or closer to Hayes in the value department.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

If Quinn is committed to three lines, no matter who he has in the fold, then there's not as much point to either Frederic or a re-signed Fast.

However, if he is willing to deploy a fourth line, if he develops trust and likes the personnel, then I think Frederic would be a component this team could potentially use.

An actual fourth line, filled with players developed for the role and not simply a cast of castaways, has shown it's value to this organization in the past.

Betts, Orty, Moore, Boyle - guys who can take a regular shift and play a specific role with effectiveness. That’s ideally where you want Fast, but at a reasonable price.

We could definitely use a 4th line that isn’t, like you mentioned, a bunch of castaways.

 

[Edge]

For Kreider, get me Lauko and fill in from there. I don’t want Heinen, Frederic or JFK as the primary piece.

I think the Rangers would be very happy to have Lauko as a component.

It's Boston's appetite to include him that I'm less certain about.