Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20 Part XXV

[rangers1314]

Well, San Jose has been a team more actively engaging the Rangers in the last week or so.

Hey @Avery16 - ask and you shall receive.

 

[Edge]

Pay him like a third liner, hope you have the depth to play him on the fourth line, know you can play him on the second in a pinch.

IMO, Fast is a guy who has a definite place on this team and could be an underrated component. As others have said, it's all about the cost.

I would love to see a three year deal, and would be willing to go to four years, it's the salary that I'm a little more hard-line about.

I tend to view his ideal role on this team as being on the fourth line --- especially if you have a guy like Kapanen or Labanc on the third line. But recognizing Fast is capable of plugging into slots on the top three lines, in a pinch, I am willing to give him a slight premium over a typical fourth liner. With that in mind, I really don't have a desire to go beyond $3 million.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

IMO, Fast is a guy who has a definite place on this team and could be an underrated component. As others have said, it's all about the cost.

I would love to see a three year deal, and would be willing to go to four years, it's the salary that I'm a little more hard-line about.

I tend to view his ideal role on this team as being on the fourth line --- especially if you have a guy like Kapanen or Labanc on the third line. But recognizing Fast is capable of plugging into slots on the top three lines, in a pinch, I am willing to give him a slight premium over a typical fourth liner. With that in mind, I really don't have a desire to go beyond $3 million.

4 x 3 would definitely be my max offer but I can live with it.

 

[LaffyTaffy]

Well, San Jose has been a team more actively engaging the Rangers in the last week or so.

Is Labanc a target of ours or are we discussing smaller names? I consider Meier untouchable on the Sharks.

 

[Tawnos]

I think he would make our bottom 6 deeper. Just like Kapanen would. He signed the 1 year deal taking a chance on himself. He is having a down year, which could be partly due to the state of SJ in general. He is on pace for 35 points. Averaging 16 minutes per night. Middle 6 player. Best suited for the 3rd line but could fill in on the 2nd line. I think Kapanen has more talent.

Kapanen’s numbers are very very similar. 7 months younger. 3 more points on a better Toronto team.

I dont know. I could go either way on these guys.

Might be able to get Labanc on a good deal because of the down year.

Labanc is on pace for 41 points. 25 in 50 so far. It’s looking more likely that last year was an up year and this year is his standard.

I like Kapanen more because I think he’s better defensively, but both would be good additions to the middle 6.

 

[Edge]

Is Labanc a target of ours or are we discussing smaller names? I consider Meier untouchable on the Sharks.

I do not have verified enough intell on who they are discussing from the Sharks side. Just know they've stepped up their game on asking about Georgiev.

 

[Fitzy]

I don't like the idea of giving him $4 million, but 2.5 years is reasonable term.

 

[Tawnos]

I think it's understandable that we all want the best package possible in a trade, but rentals carry a certain price point because of the unknown length of their tenure.

If you're getting a late first, your goal is to find a Miller, a Lundkvist, a Chytil, a Kreider. Hell, even a Pastrnak. So I'm not someone who views that as just some pittance for the guy we're trading.

If you can also get a guy like Frederic in that deal, who looks like he has a shot to be a solid fourth liner, I think we're probably pretty close.

The thing I'm not sure about is whether there's a third component and how nice of a piece it might be. That's the unknown for me. I'm not sure Kreider has a market value that is as close to Nash we hope. He could, but something tells me he's probably a bit below that return.

The real value of that Nash trade is a little hard to pin down. It’s complicated by the Rangers taking on Beleskey for 2 full seasons even if the Bruins still retained part of his salary. Essentially, the Rangers sent more than just Nash to them, which makes it hard to judge his ultimate value independently.

 

[Avery16]

FWIW, Frederic has played four seasons with JD Greenway, Jordan Greenway's brother, at U of Wisconsin and USNDT. For another USNDT season, Frederic was on the roster with Jordan. They'd likely be familiar with each other to some degree.

 

[Fitzy]

The real value of that Nash trade is a little hard to pin down. It’s complicated by the Rangers taking on Beleskey for 2 full seasons even if the Bruins still retained part of his salary. Essentially, the Rangers sent more than just Nash to them, which makes it hard to judge his ultimate value independently.

I tend to see the small negative value of Beleskey as cancelled by the positive value for Spooner (At the time)

If we see a third component, I would think it would be conditional on Kreider's re-signing with the acquiring team.

 

[LORDE]

I would value Kreider MUCH higher than Nash at this point in their careers.

Nash looked all but done and proved to be that.

Kreider is the fastest guy in the league and after a slow start is going to where he goes scoring wise.

I’ll admit I wasn’t the biggest Nash fan but Kreider is in his prime not taking one skate off

Not to mention their respective playoff contributions

 

[Avery16]

Kreider return will not be greater than the Nash return. Boston got suckered badly on that one. Kreider has more value, but once bitten twice shy.

 

[Tawnos]

I tend to see the small negative value of Beleskey as cancelled by the positive value for Spooner (At the time)

If we see a third component, I would think it would be conditional on Kreider's re-signing with the acquiring team.

Well, if those cancel out then the Nash trade was just Nash for 1 + decent prospect + 7th. Today’s equivalent would be 1 + Frederic + 7th.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Kreider return will not be greater than the Nash return. Boston got suckered badly on that one. Kreider has more value, but once bitten twice shy.

Not how it works.

Market will always dictate the value.

 

[mas0764]

There's a nugget of truth in here, but it's buried beneath some pretty big assumptions. None of Kakko, Kravtsov or Chytil have surpassed Buchnevich, Kreider or Strome yet. Chytil has made progress and will hopefully be a top 6 center. Kakko should improve to be a top 6 wing. It might take a couple more years for Kravtsov to start realizing his potential as a top 6 wing.

So to say that we can't give out contracts to Buch, Kreider or Strome is a fallacy. Kreider is more of a risk due to his age and the term he will likely want, but both Buch and Strome can be re-signed to reasonable contracts. If and when younger players actually make them expendable, then they can be traded.

You are putting the cart before the horse. Let the young players prove it before we worry about who they are going to replace.

True, but I think you have to be wary about 5 year deals and lots of money especially if they come attached with no movement clauses.

If you decide you cannot trade these guys (and I'd probably trade most of them for the right price) because you need them around, then I'd also really try to ensure that the terms are moveable.

 

[Avery16]

Not how it works.

Market will always dictate the value.

In the vacuum of dealing with Boston, I think it will work that way. They will be wary of getting ripped so badly again. In the context of the market, other teams will likely be willing to pay more for Kreider than Boston.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

In the vacuum of dealing with Boston, I think it will work that way. They will be wary of getting ripped so badly again. In the context of the market, other teams will likely be willing to pay more for Kreider than Boston.

I don’t think it will have any impact on what they’re willing to give up.

The fact that they came so close to winning last year should benefit us.

 

[noupf]

In the vacuum of dealing with Boston, I think it will work that way. They will be wary of getting ripped so badly again. In the context of the market, other teams will likely be willing to pay more for Kreider than Boston.

i kind of feel the same way. Boston may offer up something decent for CK, but i doubt its a great offer bc of the Nash deals for a couple years ago.

However, if you feel like you have a shot at the prize.......you have to give to get.

 

[Tawnos]

The Bruins didn’t get ripped off in the Nash deal

 

[LaffyTaffy]

The return for Nash was a first plus Lindgren, we were paid Spooner in return for taking on Beleskey.
The return for Kreider will be a first plus prospect.

 

[Thirty One]

FWIW, Frederic has played four seasons with JD Greenway, Jordan Greenway's brother, at U of Wisconsin and USNDT. For another USNDT season, Frederic was on the roster with Jordan. They'd likely be familiar with each other to some degree.

RangerBoy is pissed you scooped him on this one.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

IMO, Fast is a guy who has a definite place on this team and could be an underrated component. As others have said, it's all about the cost.

I would love to see a three year deal, and would be willing to go to four years, it's the salary that I'm a little more hard-line about.

I tend to view his ideal role on this team as being on the fourth line --- especially if you have a guy like Kapanen or Labanc on the third line. But recognizing Fast is capable of plugging into slots on the top three lines, in a pinch, I am willing to give him a slight premium over a typical fourth liner. With that in mind, I really don't have a desire to go beyond $3 million.

I think Fast is the most underrated player on the roster. For a team that doesn't have many bottom 6 forwards, he is not only a very versatile one, but he also takes pride in playing the grinding type of game that goes along with that assignment.

Would it bother me that we're paying a 3rd/4th liner $3M per year? Yeah, probably. But considering the Rangers have all sorts of problems developing these types of players, I don't want to lose the one we have.

 

[Fitzy]

Well, if those cancel out then the Nash trade was just Nash for 1 + decent prospect + 7th. Today’s equivalent would be 1 + Frederic + 7th.

That's a return that I'd actually be thrilled with.

That's getting up close to Hossa level

 

[GAGLine]

True, but I think you have to be wary about 5 year deals and lots of money especially if they come attached with no movement clauses.

If you decide you cannot trade these guys (and I'd probably trade most of them for the right price) because you need them around, then I'd also really try to ensure that the terms are moveable.

Well, yeah, that's the trick. I don't think either Buchnevich or Strome are looking at long term deals right now. We've got another year before we need to worry about Buchnevich though. Strome, with 1 year of RFA status left, and his track record, isn't likely to get more than 3 years. The Rangers aren't going to give him a long term deal, I don't think, and if we traded him, other teams are going to be reluctant to give him term until they see what he can do away from Panarin.

From Strome's perspective, he is probably better off taking a 1 or 2 year deal and trying to prove his value so he can get a bigger contract later.

 

[Avery16]

RangerBoy is pissed you scooped him on this one.

don't discount synergy