Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20 Part XXV

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no team in our situation middle of a rebuild would even remotely entertain the idea of trading away a 24 year old right shot 60 pt dman. Just never would happen. And it won’t.

I hear the proposals, and I do follow the logic they're basing the opinion, even if I don't necessarily agree with it. But I just really can't see ADA going anywhere --- not unless there is some landscape altering deal that reverberates around the league.

Let's hop in a DeLorean and time travel back to June 1, 2017 for a moment.

What if someone came on here and said, "Okay guys we have a chance to acquire a soon to be 22 year old RHD. He's on the smaller side, but he plays with an edge. He has some baggage from his past, he's going to need to be steered in the right direction, and his defense will be average at best. However, over the second half of his age 23 season he's going to produce at a 50 point pace, and he's going to produce at over a 60 point pace through the first half of his age 24 season. What do you think, and are you potentially ready to give this guy a $5-6 million contract after his age 24 season?"

Personally, I think this board would've been over the moon and talking about how we never get guys like this, how this is exactly what we've been waiting for, how great it would've been to have Dan Boyle in his prime and not the end of his career, and how those are the types of players you roll the dice on with contracts.

Power up the time circuits and return to good ol' 2020, and I don't know why that would change for us.

Fox is awesome. He's great. But he's not motivating me to move ADA.

Lundkvist is awesome, he's a hell of a prospect. But he's exactly that --- a prospect. And I don't think he's a replacement for ADA --- they are very different players.

We need left wings, I get it. I'd love to add a young stud on the left side. But I think we can do that without having to move ADA.

There's a lot of maybe's out there --- and that includes ADA's future production. But where he is now is a result of continual progress, not a sudden surge out of left field. In a word of question marks and maybes, I feel a lot more comfortable holding onto actual progress and dynamic results at the NHL level, over optimism that somehow we can replicate that same progress and success again. The odds say we can't. Even if we produce results that are very good, it still would be hard to trump what we have right now.

At some point, when we're fortunate, there's not much ceiling left to aim for. At some point, you reach the top floor, and outside of a generational talent, you're just about getting production that's as good as you're going to find from all but the top 1 or 2 percent of players in the game. So if ADA's offensive potential puts him in that 96th or 97th percentile, I'm not banking on the guys behind him somehow hitting 98 or 99. Nor is my first choice to move someone in the 97th percentile, for someone who is in the 90th percentile --- with the full understanding that even a guy in the 90th percentile is special and rare.
 
Depending on where the Rangers finish I think their 2nd round pick for Georgiev is a decent start. Maybe add some conditional stuff based on what Geo does for them these playoffs, or maybe based on if he plays enough games to be their "starter" next year. Keeping the pipeline going is going to be valuable too. Maybe see if they'd like to do something around their forward prospects for the Rangers D prospects Hajek/Lindgren/Rykov/Keane Kuokkanen/Gauthier/Drury/Geekie/Luostarinen. There could be some options there.
 
There was just an extensive discussion on Siriusxm Laughlin/Johnson about the Rangers goaltending situation. Johnson was citing Valiquette’s work about the shots faced and how the advanced stats show that Georgiev would be giving up 11-12 less goals than Mrazek if they had the same sample size to compare. Basically advocating Carolina trading for Georgiev. Then Johnson dove into Henrik and Gorton needing to sit him down now to know his plan. All the same stuff we have been discussing.

Again, this board continues to be ahead of the curve on this stuff by a pretty amusing margin.
 
The DeAngelo trade proposals are dumb.

I have yet to see a good reason to move him other than "hey, he may bring back a really, really good young forward."

That forward better be a f***ing G like Necas who is still on an ELC. If not, F that. I'll extend him and move out other more expendable pieces and get creative to drop the dead weight.
 
Gee golly, I wonder how far I'll have to go back.
Last calendar year:
Yandle: 7 goals, 56 assists, 63 points
DeAngelo: 12 goals, 43 assists, 55 points
Again, I am comparing them WITH the Rangers and why I feel like X for one and Y for another.
Again, if you want to say you prefer DeAngelo as a player to Yandle for this reason or that reason, that's a reasonable stance that I'd likely agree with. But if you're this star -struck with DeAngelo, you should have had a lot more time for Yandle. This is my only point.
I get it. Let's just chalk it up to me liking him more for multiple reasons. One of the being that Yandle did not show "it" when he was here.
 
Sending (2x) 2nds to Carolina for Fox, in retrospect, was a no brainer. I'd be less thrilled if the chain of events in less than one year netted us Fox for Georgiev and (1x) 2nd. That's more of a push than a win, and a bitter push at that.

I'm...fairly okay with it, when push comes to shove.

Especially if you consider that our second round pick could end up being in the 37-40 range.

Obviously I wouldn't take it if indeed a Labanc or Kapanen is on the table --- but I'm just not entirely convinced they are.
 
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The DeAngelo trade proposals are dumb.

I have yet to see a good reason to move him other than "hey, he may bring back a really, really good young forward."

That forward better be a ****ing G like Necas who is still on an ELC. If not, F that. I'll extend him and move out other more expendable pieces and get creative to drop the dead weight.
Right, and a Necas-level player is about the only reason they'd ever consider moving Tony. There are worse problems to have than trying to figure out how to slot an RHD corps of Trouba-DeAngelo-Fox. Worst case scenario, they do what STL is doing and move one of them to LD. WPG did the same thing with Trouba-Byfuglien.
 
Would that be all that we're looking at in return for Geo, or is that pick just a component of a deal? I always figured expecting someone like Kapanen or Labanc for Geo was insane, but I'd be surprised if he simply only gets a 2nd round pick back.

In my head, I've always had the expectation you're looking at a second round pick if he goes solo, or a more intriguing return if he goes in a package. For the latter, I've said a few times that I could envision him being packaged with Strome in a similar manner to Stepan/Raanta.
 
Right, and a Necas-level player is about the only reason they'd ever consider moving Tony. There are worse problems to have than trying to figure out how to slot an RHD corps of Trouba-DeAngelo-Fox. Worst case scenario, they do what STL is doing and move one of them to LD. WPG did the same thing with Trouba-Byfuglien.

Yup, especially considering that he, playing on the left side with Fox have murdered their competition this year (SSS I know, but it's worked.)

SO yeah its Necas level guy, as a component to a McDavid Trade or GTFO.
 
Any chance Buffalo goes all in and gets in the mix for Georgiev now that their guy is out?

I can't imagine ownership is looking at 9 straight years missing the playoffs and pissing off a highly competitive Eichel.

Maybe they are the team to meet the "make it worth it to us" price NYR is seeking.
 


Do we expand the deal to take on Backes at 40-50% retained with Boston attaching an asset?

Gives us a body for next year, especially if we want to cash in on Strome’s production.

Kreider and a 3rd round pick ‘20

for

Backes 50%, 1st ‘20, Frederic, Studnicka or JFK, conditional 2nd round pick that becomes ‘21 1st if BOS reaches the SCF.
 
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Do we expand the deal to take on Backes at 40-50% retained with Boston attaching an asset?

Gives us a body for next year, especially if we want to cash in on Strome’s production.

Kreider and a 3rd round pick ‘20

for

Backes 50%, 1st ‘20, Frederic, Studnicka or JFK, conditional 2nd round pick that becomes ‘21 1st if BOS reaches the SCF.


I wish we could do this with Staal.
 


Do we expand the deal to take on Backes at 40-50% retained with Boston attaching an asset?

Gives us a body for next year, especially if we want to cash in on Strome’s production.

Kreider and a 3rd round pick ‘20

for

Backes 50%, 1st ‘20, Frederic, Studnicka or JFK, conditional 2nd round pick that becomes ‘21 1st if BOS reaches the SCF.


Nash deal all over again.
 
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Gee golly, I wonder how far I'll have to go back.
Last calendar year:
Yandle: 7 goals, 56 assists, 63 points
DeAngelo: 12 goals, 43 assists, 55 points


This one requires time travel and reconfiguring of rosters which I do not have the authority to do. And for that reason, I'm out.

Again, if you want to say you prefer DeAngelo as a player to Yandle for this reason or that reason, that's a reasonable stance that I'd likely agree with. But if you're this star -struck with DeAngelo, you should have had a lot more time for Yandle. This is my only point.



"Yandle wasn't good at defense, and isn't nearly good enough offensively to make up for it"

to

"Tony is so good offensively he doesn't need to play defense"



(I wish we had both honestly)
 
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Do we expand the deal to take on Backes at 40-50% retained with Boston attaching an asset?

Gives us a body for next year, especially if we want to cash in on Strome’s production.

Kreider and a 3rd round pick ‘20

for

Backes 50%, 1st ‘20, Frederic, Studnicka or JFK, conditional 2nd round pick that becomes ‘21 1st if BOS reaches the SCF.

I don't think we can count on Backes being "a body". They aren't playing him because he is refusing to limit himself and is facing a future of post-concussion issues. The statement from the coach said it all, cares too much for Backes's wife and kids to put him out there. He's done but he isnt ready to accept it.
 
I wish we could do this with Staal.
I dont think anyone is coming to help us with Staal. Plus I dont see a team taking Staal at 50% with say only a 3rd or 4th round pick attached. And I don’t feel like paying more than that to have someone take Staal for the 1 year he has left.

But Boston might be willing to. They are in win now mode. In fact they are in win a cup now mode. They are farther along. Their window is this year and could still be next. And the $2.47 in savings could be valuable to them. Gives them more flexibility for this deadline and also to re-sign some of their own moving forward. Krug is due a new contract but they may let him walk. You saw Toronto, a contender, attach a conditional 1st to Marleau.
 
I dont think anyone is coming to help us with Staal. Plus I dont see a team taking Staal at 50% with say only a 3rd or 4th round pick attached. And I don’t feel like paying more than that to have someone take Staal for the 1 year he has left.

But Boston might be willing to. They are in win now mode. In fact they are in win a cup now mode. They are farther along. Their window is this year and could still be next. And the $2.47 in savings could be valuable to them. Gives them more flexibility for this deadline and also to re-sign some of their own moving forward. Krug is due a new contract but they may let him walk. You saw Toronto, a contender, attach a conditional 1st to Marleau.

I mean just not playing him.
 
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I don't think we can count on Backes being "a body". They aren't playing him because he is refusing to limit himself and is facing a future of post-concussion issues. The statement from the coach said it all, cares too much for Backes's wife and kids to put him out there. He's done but he isnt ready to accept it.
And thats ok too. We can eat the money for next year until Backes retires or goes in LTIR. It frees up some flexibility for BOS that they could absolutely use with their window being right now. If it means getting Studnicka back then there’s your body anyway and exactly what you are looking for.
 
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