Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20 Part XXV

[TheBPA]

When Yandle gets on a roll like DeAngelo has been on for a year, please let me know. Also when a 23 year old Yandle starts producing as such for a rebuilding Rangers team instead of not puttering along on what is supposed to be a strong playoff contender, let me know that one as well.

I mean he said different circumstances. Also, Yandle put up 59 points as a 24 year old for an ok at best Phoenix team, and was 5th in Norris voting.

I do agree, however, that for whatever reason Yandle just wasn't the right "fit" with that Rangers team.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Yandle was used incorrectly from the moment he arrived because of our dunce of a head coach

 

[True Blue]

I mean he said different circumstances. Also, Yandle put up 59 points as a 24 year old for an ok at best Phoenix team, and was 5th in Norris voting.

I do agree, however, that for whatever reason Yandle just wasn't the right "fit" with that Rangers team.

It was not just different circumstances, it was different timing and the age of the player matters a lot.

Maybe it was just me, but I never got that feeling that Yandle can change the game the way that I have been seeing with DeAngelo since last January. Which is why you live to learn with the defensive warts and all. Concentrate on finding him the right partner, not praying that you can find another defenseman who can do offensively something that a lot of us have not seen done from that position since someone named Leetch was skating here.

 

[SA16]

Yandle was used incorrectly from the moment he arrived because of our dunce of a head coach

The same head coach who, predictably, has done the exact same thing with Shayne Gositsbehere this year.

 

[TheBPA]

It was not just different circumstances, it was different timing and the age of the player matters a lot.

Maybe it was just me, but I never got that feeling that Yandle can change the game the way that I have been seeing with DeAngelo since last January. Which is why you live to learn with the defensive warts and all. Concentrate on finding him the right partner, not praying that you can find another defenseman who can do offensively something that a lot of us have not seen done from that position since someone named Leetch was skating here.

Oh I 100% agree that I wouldn't trade DeAngelo unless you get blown away by an offer.

The same head coach who, predictably, has done the exact same thing with Shayne Gositsbehere this year.

Basically totally ruined Gostisbehere's value by not using him on the power play.

 

[Edge]

1/3 of the players taken in the 2nd round make the NHL. The Rangers are going to trade Georgiev within their own division for a 2nd round pick. Can we trade him to the western conference if the return will be a 2nd round pick?

I think it depends on who is interested, where the pick falls, when it is, what else they might offer, etc.

You could be talking about the 37th pick in 2020 vs. the 55th pick in 2021.

 

[nyr2k2]

Thats a very interesting stat, I wonder if the odds of Robertson and Henriksson making it are 33%. Certainly seemed higher than that on draft day.

There are lots of stats about this and they all vary significantly. Some define "becoming an NHLer" as playing 200 or more games, others use far less rigid standards. Either way I've seen it measured as anywhere from about 16% to usually around 25% for second round picks. I haven't seen anything saying 33%--doesn't mean it doesn't exist, I've just never seen it. It obviously of course makes a huge difference whether we're talking about the 34 pick or the 60th pick.

 

[Edge]

You'd think after the Mike Hoffman fiasco that people would get over not trading a player within the division if that division rival is offering the best trade package.

This is true way more often than not. And yet, here we are with Adam Fox and Rykov possibly making the NHL soon. That means 1/3 of our starting defenseman could theoretically have come from a Division rival.

So sometimes the offer transcends the concern, but we'll see.

 

[Edge]

Entirely feasible, logical, and even intelligent detective work - but I don’t want it.

Important to note I am neither advocating for or against trading with Carolina. Just that I would not rule them out right now.

 

[TheBPA]

This is true way more often than not. And yet, here we are with Adam Fox and Rykov possibly making the NHL soon. That means 1/3 of our starting defenseman could theoretically have come from a Division rival.

So sometimes the offer transcends the concern, but we'll see.

Agreed. What many haven't fully grasped is that player movement happens much more freely that it used to 30 years ago. If you traded a significant player to a division rival in the 80's, there's a good chance you might be lining up against them for the next 10 years, so you'd better be sure that you received good assets in return or you'd never be able to live the trade down.

Now? You trade a player to a division rival, and depending on their contract status, the team's needs, the player might not even be there in 2 years.

Anyways, despite the Hoffman situation it seems that the cracks in this old philosophy are starting to show more and more. Heck, even the Oilers and Flames were able to trade their problems to one another.

 

[Edge]

Kreider is gone. DeAngelo hasnt scored 20/60 yet, he is on pace for that but Hayes was on pace for 80 at one point last year too, it didnt make him an 80 point player. This would be a career high for DeAngelo, I'd guess it was the new norm but there is no guarantee,so I'd be nervous dumping money into a position we are deepest in if the dollar and term weren't on a discount for a "60 point" guy when there are holes up front everywhere. If it's a bridge deal I'm ok with it but I'm not comfortable giving a long term deal for 1 year of offensive production from a defenseman who is average in his own end.

Well, like I said, we've been trending this way over two seasons now, so it's been a steady path to get here. Over the last 82 games he's essentially just under a 60 point defenseman, right now he's just over. So it's not just projecting out a small sample size.

Yes, ADA is average in his own zone, but man does the offense more than make up for the defensive shortcomings.

But let's even say he slides, he's not sliding to a 30 point season. Dan Boyle hit 60 and 70 points on four different occassions, but that doesn't mean there weren't some seasons inbetween where he posted 40 or 50. So we have to have some wiggle room here for a defenseman.

And BTW, bridging him runs just as much risk as giving him the contract now. Because if he keeps producing like this, you are not signing him to his next deal for $5-$6 million. So either way it's a calculated risk.

 

[Leetch3]

You'd think after the Mike Hoffman fiasco that people would get over not trading a player within the division if that division rival is offering the best trade package.

this is especially true when you are a rebuilding team not ready to compete yet...if we were contending now maybe you'd look at it differently but right now just get the best return

 

[Kovalev27]

Make no mistake, I’d love to nab a 24 year old, 70 point LW. But a 60 point point defenseman in that age range is like finding a black diamond.

It’s exactly that rarity that makes me hesitant to expect that Fox picking up some points and bringing back a rookie will off-set that.

I just think there are other ways to improve this roster, without losing a guy who has a chance to put up the kind of in numbers we haven’t seen from a defenseman since before some of the posters on here were even born.

But yes, if you’re moving ADA, you have to aim for the kind of return you’re suggesting.

no team in our situation middle of a rebuild would even remotely entertain the idea of trading away a 24 year old right shot 60 pt dman. Just never would happen. And it won’t.

 

[Zibanejbread]

 

[DutchShamrock]

So Carolina has an extra 1st coming either this year or next. Top 10 protected from Toronto. That could pit their own 1st this season in play. They also have our 2nd and an extra 3rd. Carolina only has about $2m in cap space. They have too many NHL ready defensemen.

There is a lot of factors that make us good trading partners. Just Georgiev or a larger package.

I think Toronto has cold feet on a Georgiev trade. That leaked report that they view him as mediocre with bad stats and comparable trades suggest he's worth a 2nd... I know it's posturing but they are barely speaking the same language. Dubas walked into the Jeep dealership and pointed at a photo of a WWII Jeep and cited the price of a Civic as a comp. They won't get it done and it's probably why we always seem to be circling each other for years without getting any deals done.

 

[Good Intentions]

Important to note I am neither advocating for or against trading with Carolina. Just that I would not rule them out right now.

With the assumption being Toronto, I think your ‘sharp’ take with Carolina as a fit is spot on. Completely plausible - and a good fit.

I’ll stick with JD keeping Georgie. 70% confident he’s still in blue (not Leaf blue) on Feb 25.

 

[Kovalev27]

I’ve always thought Gorton was nuts thinking he’d get a player like kapanen plus for Georgiev. Just doesn’t happen. Not for a back up goalie. I’d love for it to happen but I feel if that were possible it would have been done by now

Getting our high second round pick back and maybe a prospect would be a good trade for us. As long as we don’t waste another 2nd round pick on a guy like Olaf lindbom when guys like Jack Drury are sitting there. Jesus

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I’ve always thought Gorton was nuts thinking he’d get a player like kapanen plus for Georgiev. Just doesn’t happen. Not for a back up goalie. I’d love for it to happen but I feel if that were possible it would have been done by now

Getting our high second round pick back and maybe a prospect would be a good trade for us. As long as we don’t waste another 2nd round pick on a guy like Olaf lindbom when guys like Jack Drury are sitting there. Jesus

That would have been so much fun! Even more nepotism debates

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I’ve always thought Gorton was nuts thinking he’d get a player like kapanen plus for Georgiev. Just doesn’t happen. Not for a back up goalie. I’d love for it to happen but I feel if that were possible it would have been done by now

Getting our high second round pick back and maybe a prospect would be a good trade for us. As long as we don’t waste another 2nd round pick on a guy like Olaf lindbom when guys like Jack Drury are sitting there. Jesus

Their 2nd round from last year kicked ass

 

[Kocur Dill]

Remember, Carolina is going to have some familiarity with the Rangers personnel in the aftermath of the Fox trade.

I know everyone has visions of Kapanen or Labanc dancing in their heads, but I can’t help but feel the market might still be a second round pick. And the Canes own the Rangers second round pick...

Sending (2x) 2nds to Carolina for Fox, in retrospect, was a no brainer. I'd be less thrilled if the chain of events in less than one year netted us Fox for Georgiev and (1x) 2nd. That's more of a push than a win, and a bitter push at that.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Ryan Graves

 

[Thirty One]

When Yandle gets on a roll like DeAngelo has been on for a year, please let me know.

Gee golly, I wonder how far I'll have to go back.
Last calendar year:
Yandle: 7 goals, 56 assists, 63 points
DeAngelo: 12 goals, 43 assists, 55 points

Also when a 23 year old Yandle starts producing as such for a rebuilding Rangers team instead of not puttering along on what is supposed to be a strong playoff contender, let me know that one as well.

This one requires time travel and reconfiguring of rosters which I do not have the authority to do. And for that reason, I'm out.

Again, if you want to say you prefer DeAngelo as a player to Yandle for this reason or that reason, that's a reasonable stance that I'd likely agree with. But if you're this star -struck with DeAngelo, you should have had a lot more time for Yandle. This is my only point.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I think it depends on who is interested, where the pick falls, when it is, what else they might offer, etc.

You could be talking about the 37th pick in 2020 vs. the 55th pick in 2021.

Would that be all that we're looking at in return for Geo, or is that pick just a component of a deal? I always figured expecting someone like Kapanen or Labanc for Geo was insane, but I'd be surprised if he simply only gets a 2nd round pick back.

 

[RGY]

Important to note I am neither advocating for or against trading with Carolina. Just that I would not rule them out right now.

There was just an extensive discussion on Siriusxm Laughlin/Johnson about the Rangers goaltending situation. Johnson was citing Valiquette’s work about the shots faced and how the advanced stats show that Georgiev would be giving up 11-12 less goals than Mrazek if they had the same sample size to compare. Basically advocating Carolina trading for Georgiev. Then Johnson dove into Henrik and Gorton needing to sit him down now to know his plan. All the same stuff we have been discussing.

 

[Gardner McKay]

Sending (2x) 2nds to Carolina for Fox, in retrospect, was a no brainer. I'd be less thrilled if the chain of events in less than one year netted us Fox for Georgiev and (1x) 2nd. That's more of a push than a win, and a bitter push at that.

That is still a huge win in my opinion.