Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20 Part XXV

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

If he’s that bad why are the Ducks trading Lindholm for him?

That's my favorite part of the proposal -- lists off the Rangers' players as unneeded pieces of crap -- wants to trade them for the Ducks' top defenseman. Like everyone else, I think he's undervaluing all the Ranger players he listed, but still, what a salesman!

 

[Edge]

Actually, I tend to think a lot of teams are getting more modest production from their bottom six, with a lot of offense concentrated on the top two lines.

There are a number of teams where there is a huge drop outside of the top six --- we're talking guys hovering in the 30 point range on the third line. And not necessarily bottom dwelling teams either.

Offense is up in the league, but it tends to be focused around top line players.

 

[True Blue]

If you think Buch is a 1st liner you’re clueless. He’s played with Mika and Panarin and still hasn’t even cracked 50 in a season. He plays with zero physicality and defensive ability as well

The conversation is regarding 50 point players. Please stick to it.

 

[Lays]

The conversation is regarding 50 point players. Please stick to it.

Which Buch isn’t

 

[FIRE DRURY]

What I’ve learned today at HF school:

• 50 point players are useless.
• Skjei+1st for Danault who has one year left on his contract is a good trade.
  
• Lindholm is 7 feet tall, scores goals by the hundreds, and if he were here today he would consume our opposition with fireballs from his eyes, and bolts of lightning from his arse.

 

[True Blue]

Not anymore, Guy..
Teams are getting more points out of the bottom 6 now..

Go look up the Krieder debates. Don't feel like a rehash. If you do not see top liners as 50 point players, you are simply not paying attention.

 

[True Blue]

Which Buch isn’t

We were discussing 50 point players. Please stick to the conversation.

 

[cheech70]

What I’ve learned today at HF school:

• 50 point players are useless.
• Skjei+1st for Danault who has one year left on his contract is a good trade.
  
• Lindholm is 7 feet tall, scores goals by the hundreds, and if he were here today he would consume our opposition with fireballs from his eyes, and bolts of lightning from his arse.

 

[Lays]

We were discussing 50 point players. Please stick to the conversation.

We were discussing Buch which evolved into 50 point players. And a player like Buch, even if he hits 50 points, isn’t a guy you want on a contender. He’s ideally a third liner but doesn’t even have the all around game to fit there

 

[East Coast Bias]

What do you expect, the poster lists their profession as a Financial Adviser.

Spending all day telling people that high commission, high risk funds are totally better and smarter than low/no cost S&P funds and you'll eventually believe your own shit.

"You have to give to get"

 

[Lays]

Go look up the Krieder debates. Don't feel like a rehash. If you do not see top liners as 50 point players, you are simply not paying attention.

Kreider and Buch are completely different players. Kreider isn’t even a first liner and he has never been

 

[Lays]

What do you expect, the poster lists their profession as a Financial Adviser.

Spending all day telling people that high commission, high risk funds are totally better and smarter than low/no cost S&P funds and you'll eventually believe your own ****.

"You have to give to get"

That’s what I’m going for, not what I currently am. I’m in college

 

[JimmyG89]

What I learned from this thread today:

• Mostly nobody knows what player values are
• This is an open forum
• #1 and #2 lead me to #4
• Friday cannot come here fast enough

 

[Lion Hound]

Kreider and Buch are completely different players. Kreider isn’t even a first liner and he has never been

Just spewing moronic nonsense.

 

[Edge]

Buch's numbers are always a little wonky because his games played totals have been all over the place.

If we go by an 82 game schedule, Buch numbers are:

16 goals, 40 points
16 goals, 48 points
27 goals, 49 points
14 goals, 44 points

So over four seasons, Buch's 82 game average is roughly 18 goals and 45 points. So he's a level just below 20g/50pts.

The question is whether Buch, as he approaches his 25th birthday this spring, is capable of taking that next, permanent step to the 20/50 plateau, or what his value is to a team that thinks he can hit that level, and/or get a boost if paired with the right line-driver.

 

[cheech70]

That’s what I’m going for, not what I currently am. I’m in college

Ah the heat and spring semester....now it makes sense

 

[Leetch3]

Actually, I tend to think a lot of teams are getting more modest production from their bottom six, with a lot of offense concentrated on the top two lines.

There are a number of teams where there is a huge drop outside of the top six --- we're talking guys hovering in the 30 point range on the third line. And not necessarily bottom dwelling teams either.

Offense is up in the league, but it tends to be focused around top line players.

I think this is a cap driven issue more than strategy...you need to pay top guys huge $$. but to stay under the cap you need to save $$ in other areas, so teams are going to look at players on their ELC and cheaper players for the bottom 6 and its the middle of the pack guys that get pushed out...

of course how smart it is to be a top heavy team like that is really dependent on how good your top guys are...if you have legit elite players at the top you can get away with it...if your top guys are getting 60 points like we did in past years than you better have depth.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Buch's numbers are always a little wonky because his games played totals have been all over the place.

If we go by an 82 game schedule, Buch numbers are:

16 goals, 40 points
16 goals, 48 points
27 goals, 49 points
14 goals, 44 points

So over four seasons, Buch's 82 game average is roughly 18 goals and 45 points. So he's a level just below 20g/50pts.

The question is whether Buch, as he approaches his 25th birthday this spring, is capable of taking that next, permanent step to the 20/50 plateau, or what his value is to a team that thinks he can hit that level, and/or get a boost if paired with the right line-driver.

Even if he doesn’t take that next step, he can still be a useful middle 6 winger. As a wise man recently said, you can’t have a team of 1st liners.

 

[NYR]

Go look up the Krieder debates. Don't feel like a rehash. If you do not see top liners as 50 point players, you are simply not paying attention.

No, there's not enough time in a day for me to pay attention to everything.

That said..I just feel like a 50 point player is on the 2nd line today.
There's a huge difference from even 5 years ago in terms of production today.
Teams rely a lot more on production from the bottom 6 and even more so on the backend now.
Insert Panarin..

 

[QJL]

50 point players make you a top line player. How is that useless?

Not on contending team. 45-50 point offensive guys are useless there. That’s why Boston traded Spooner despite him being on pace for 55+ that year. Useless everywhere else. Buch used to be my favorite

I did the research and I’m siding with @eggmcmuffin partially. The only cup team without three 50+ point forwards in the past decade is the 13-14 Kings. A majority have more than four.

Buchnevich is a second line scoring winger. He’s not a top liner and he’s not a 3rd liner as others have mentioned (assuming he continues to produce 45-50 points). He’s definitely more well rounded than Spooner and not near that level of liability.

 

[Lays]

Just spewing moronic nonsense.

You think Kreider is a 1st liner or ever was on a legit team? Cmon now. He was a great 2nd liner who put up 53 points and 29 goals as his max

 

[Lion Hound]

You think Kreider is a 1st liner or ever was on a legit team? Cmon now. He was a great 2nd liner who put up 53 points and 29 goals as his max

100% Bonafide 1st line player.

 

[Tossed Medal]

Buch 101 pts in 179 career games isn’t bad actually . I still am not in love with him as a player but he’s effective .

 

[Leetch3]

I did the research and I’m siding with @eggmcmuffin partially. The only cup team without three 50+ point forwards in the past decade is the 13-14 Kings. A majority have more than four.

Buchnevich is a second line scoring winger. He’s not a top liner and he’s not a 3rd liner as others have mentioned (assuming he continues to produce 45-50 points). He’s definitely more well rounded than Spooner and not near that level of liability.

so all but 1 cup team has 3+ 50 point forwards and your conclusion is to agree with the guy that says 50 point forwards are useless?

 

[JimmyG89]

Moving Buch, with the exception of getting a better player in return that fits our timeline, hurts the teams chances at competing for a cup.

Not only that, we'd need a player that actually fits in our cap plans and meshes well with our team. Obviously you can't know the 2nd part without the player being on the roster, but that player needs to fit into the cap for next season, on top of being someone we could project longer term into a contract with the team for another 4-5 seasons.

That's a very limited player pool. For now, we should be keeping Buch, and in fact opening contract discussions with him for an extension on 7/1.

If they could get in front of this and lock him in to a deal that works cap wise, he could be a big part of a 2nd line that helps drive this team when ready to compete.