Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20: Part XXIX

[bobbop]

I'm not doubting that they know. He's the player every outlet is talking about, but if teams sense nyr may be considering keeping him and the top rental may come off the market a team or teams may up their offer to land CK rather than hope Hoffman is available or move on to a 3rd tier type rental.

I mean we've heard the "possible resigning" thing before prior to the deadline before a player is moved. I say this while also acknowledging that him resigning is a possiblity.

They already have a good idea what the possible return would be. Teams often exchange names before a player is made available. It’s come down to will there be a deal or not. Any trade is a result of the negotiation failing, not of the trade competing with the negotiation.

 

[mas0764]

The results at 7x7 are more decisive than I would’ve guessed (at least so far).

The geek in me is curious how that changes at 7x6.5, 7x6, 6x7, so and so forth. And no I am necessarily suggesting everyone be subjected to that ringer. Although, if there is a willingness...

You could probably do one poll saying “What’s the highest you’d go on Kreider?” And then have the options of all those you listed above.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

If our front has office decided ADA is being moved for whatever reason, who would you move him for In a 1-for-1 hockey trade...? (Or close to that).

No, “try him at LD crap”, or “trade someone else”.

You •have• to trade ADA for another player.

It’ll hurt. It’ll suck. Just curious to hear some responses. (McDavid offers, please GTFO, be kinda realistic).

Tkachuk
Nylander
Domi+

In that order.


This isn’t a “trade ADA” post. I’m not the anti-Jova. He’s one of my favorite players on the team and I realize how rare of a player he is.

I can just, see our front office moving him for a good young player and wanted to hear some suggestions from some of y’all jive ass turkeys who’d you be copacetic with if this scenario happened.

 

[RGY]

If our front has office decided ADA is being moved for whatever reason, who would you move him for In a 1-for-1 hockey trade...? (Or close to that).

No, “try him at LD crap”, or “trade someone else”.

You •have• to trade ADA for another player.

It’ll hurt. It’ll suck. Just curious to hear some responses. (McDavid offers, please GTFO, be kinda realistic).

Tkachuk
Nylander
Domi+

In that order.


This isn’t a “trade ADA” post. I’m not the anti-Jova. He’s one of my favorite players on the team and I realize how rare of a player he is.

I can just, see our front office moving him for a good young player and wanted to hear some suggestions from some of y’all jive ass turkeys who’d you be copacetic with if this scenario happened.

I would love one of the Tkachuk brothers. Exactly the player type this team needs. Like to a T. But I just dont see us being able get that level of player for just DeAngelo. I would love for it to be the case but I dont see either team moving one of them for one breakout year of ADA. Yes he had been trending upwards in the previous year or so but nothing like this.

Nylander is probably more realistic, but I am meh on him. I wouldn’t be upset if he was what we ended up with but to me he is more of the same on our wings. More perimeter and less of an edge to go north-south. Again wouldnt be upset, could be worse. He has a good contract moving forward so long as his production keeps up away from the Toronto offense. I also dont think this is a deal that happens now. Would be after the season.

Not a fan of Domi. Would not be ok with him as the return. I know you had a + there but the + would have to be pretty good. I think DeAngelo’s value outweighs Domi.

I mean are we looking at teams that are going the wrong direction moving forward? Such as Detroit, Anaheim, LA, SJ? Could it be 1-for-1 or package for Larkin? Meier? I dont think Rakell fits with his age and contract status. Nashville? I think the Rangers would prefer moving him West

 

[BBKers]

Jive ass turkey eh? Give me Kaprizov then

 

[JimmyG89]

Anders Lee was headed to the Blackhawks. While the Islanders toyed with Panarin, he was ready to move. He’s a Notre Dame alum. When the Panarin deal fell apart, the Islanders had to go back with a bigger offer to keep him from getting away. The Blackhawks already had a press release ready to go.

I can believe it, probably came back to the Islanders to match or go an extra year and they had to. Couldn't lose their captain 2 years in a row AND miss Panarin. That fanbase would have lost their shit.

 

[Maximus]

Resign Kreider for 7 and 7 and let Strome and ADA as much as I love him go and we move on.

Kreider is not replaceable...ADA and Strome are.

Gorton if your reading this thread which I know you are as you know we know our shit here...get it done hoss!

Oh and while your at it Jeff...don't f*** around with Lemieux and play BS games with him. He wants to be here and so be fair and get him signed as well.

Sincerely,

Rangers fan base...

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Resign Kreider for 7 and 7 and let Strome and ADA as much as I love him go and we move on.

Kreider is not replaceable...ADA and Strome are.

Gorton if your reading this thread which I know you are as you know we know our **** here...get it done hoss!

Oh and while your at it Jeff...don't **** around with Lemieux and play BS games with him. He wants to be here and so be fair and get him signed as well.

Sincerely,

Rangers fan base...

It’s A LOT easier replacing a 28/29 year old 50PT~ winger who’s about to get his payday over a 24 year old 60pt~ RHD under 25.

WTF did I honestly just read....?

 

[Maximus]

It’s A LOT easier replacing a 28/29 year old 50PT~ winger who’s about to get his payday over a 24 year old 60pt~ RHD under 25.

WTF did I honestly just read....?

I love ADA Kupo...I do but the intangibles the Kreider provides to the team including things like leadership for the kiddies we got are immeasurable. That said, I'd love to keep ADA and Kreider if possible.

If push came to shove tho considering there is absolutely no one who can even come close to replacing what Kreider does for us on the horizon and when I look at all the uber prospects we have on the defensive side of things just about ready to pop, yeah I'd choose Kreider over ADA who is likely going to command pretty damn close to what Kreider is going to want.

Hopefully it doesn't come to that and we can keep both but bottom line is I don't want to let Kreider go...that's where I'm coming from!!.

 

[egelband]

The results at 7x7 are more decisive than I would’ve guessed (at least so far).

The geek in me is curious how that changes at 7x6.5, 7x6, 6x7, so and so forth. And no I am necessarily suggesting everyone be subjected to that ringer. Although, if there is a willingness...

Years is my concern. 4 year deal, I’m happy for the Rangers (easy for me to say ) to pay above market even. 5, ok. But can’t go over that. Btw I understand he’s ‘giving up’ x dollars on a shorter deal but it’s also reasonable to suggest he might do better on a shorter deal with a higher cap in 4 or 5 years from now. Or at least not lose so much and be able to stay for a few great runs with the good guys!

 

[bobbop]

It’s A LOT easier replacing a 28/29 year old 50PT~ winger who’s about to get his payday over a 24 year old 60pt~ RHD under 25.

WTF did I honestly just read....?

Nobody is letting Tony D go. IF he is moved (big IF) it will only be if the Rangers can bring back a front line forward. That's it. I've got a few ideas but whenever I post a name, it takes the conversation off on a tangent.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

This is not going to happen due to LTIR, but it would be brutal for Nashville if it did.View attachment 319787

4m cap penalty for 6 years if he would retire this summer. Ai

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Brassard had 3 years left on his deal, its a really different situation.

Kreider, as a rental, will go to a contending team and those teams don't give up prime young assets for rentals. He'll get us a late first and an okay but not great prospect I'd bet. Boston wouldn't move someone like DeBrusk for him I don't think. They'd want to add him to DeBrusk to win the cup this year.

This really needs to be said time and time again. I saw the same after the Zucker trade, how it would be in indicator for a Kreider trade....

 

[Ola]

At this point it wouldn't shock me if they already made an offer and his camp said no.

Yeah, and I also think it’s important to keep one distinction in mind, all parties are aware that talk is talk but an Offer is the real thing, ie it’s binding.

And, an offer is not something that you just fire from the hip. Bonuses has become a big thing lately. I mean there is a significant value to get a years salary up front instead of spread out over the year, you can get interest on it. No moment clauses aren’t just boxes you check.

My point is just, if there is a report that “no offer was made” it doesn’t tell me much at all. Everyone knows what the market is like, all you need to know is if a player is interested in signing for the perceived market value or discuss a significant discount.

 

[Ola]

This really needs to be said time and time again. I saw the same after the Zucker trade, how it would be in indicator for a Kreider trade....

Exactly, and it’s also the same with the McD and Miller trades, they weren’t rentals either.

 

[EdJovanovski]

If our front has office decided ADA is being moved for whatever reason, who would you move him for In a 1-for-1 hockey trade...? (Or close to that).

No, “try him at LD crap”, or “trade someone else”.

You •have• to trade ADA for another player.

It’ll hurt. It’ll suck. Just curious to hear some responses. (McDavid offers, please GTFO, be kinda realistic).

Tkachuk
Nylander
Domi+

In that order.


This isn’t a “trade ADA” post. I’m not the anti-Jova. He’s one of my favorite players on the team and I realize how rare of a player he is.

I can just, see our front office moving him for a good young player and wanted to hear some suggestions from some of y’all jive ass turkeys who’d you be copacetic with if this scenario happened.

Tkachuk
Laine
Svechnikov
Boeser
Nylander
Aho
Gaudreau
Virtanen + Podkolzin

don’t even want to discuss it though because I feel I’m speaking it into existence

 

[gravey9]

BOLD STATEMENT. We're witnessing in real time, THE turning point of this rebuild. And its name is Igor Shesterkin.

I was lying awake in bed because I couldn't stop thinking about how if the Rangers just let Shesty play every game the rest of this season AND kept Kreider, they could theoretically make the playoffs.

I know it sounds crazy given where they're at in the standings and how many teams they have to jump but if you just extrapolate Shesty's win percentage as a pro over the next 27 games, Rangers could go roughly 21-6 or 20-7. Either way, they'd finish with 100 or more pts.

BUT... then I realized I was missing the bigger picture. If Shesty is officially THE GUY now, we need to reassess the timetable for team building.

Igor Shesterkin will very likely be the biggest accelerator of the rebuild. Bigger than Panarin, bigger than Trouba. Just like Lundqvist 14 years ago. Once Hank took over, we had 40+ wins EVERY SEASON except the 09-10 season. Hank led a very mediocre squad to 14 more wins than they had the previous year in just his rookie season.

Point is, elite goaltending is likely to make us a playoff team (not nec. a contender). It will mask A LOT of our issues.

As a result, we shouldn't be stocking up on draft picks and players that'll take 3-4 years to make the team and 5 or 6 to hit their prime. That would just put us in a cycle of mediocrity. And given many factors, we should make sure our contention window is definitely open by 21-22.

And we need to understand the Kreider, Strome, Buch, Skjei, DeAngelo situations within the context of this timing. And JG and JD need to have a plan for how to flip futures we'd get in any trades for players who can have a more near-term impact. So, if the Rangers get what turns out to be a 30th OA draft pick and a B level prospect in a Kreider trade -- is that really the right move? Like don't we need to get an asset that can be more impactful sooner? Or an asset we're confident can help us land an asset that can make a more immediate impact? And if that's the case, are we just trading CK because of the cap? And is that the smartest way to build a team?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

BOLD STATEMENT. We're witnessing in real time, THE turning point of this rebuild. And its name is Igor Shesterkin.

I was lying awake in bed because I couldn't stop thinking about how if the Rangers just let Shesty play every game the rest of this season AND kept Kreider, they could theoretically make the playoffs.

I know it sounds crazy given where they're at in the standings and how many teams they have to jump but if you just extrapolate Shesty's win percentage as a pro over the next 27 games, Rangers could go roughly 21-6 or 20-7. Either way, they'd finish with 100 or more pts.

BUT... then I realized I was missing the bigger picture. If Shesty is officially THE GUY now, we need to reassess the timetable for team building.

Igor Shesterkin will very likely be the biggest accelerator of the rebuild. Bigger than Panarin, bigger than Trouba. Just like Lundqvist 14 years ago. Once Hank took over, we had 40+ wins EVERY SEASON except the 09-10 season. Hank led a very mediocre squad to 14 more wins than they had the previous year in just his rookie season.

Point is, elite goaltending is likely to make us a playoff team (not nec. a contender). It will mask A LOT of our issues.

As a result, we shouldn't be stocking up on draft picks and players that'll take 3-4 years to make the team and 5 or 6 to hit their prime. That would just put us in a cycle of mediocrity. And given many factors, we should make sure our contention window is definitely open by 21-22.

And we need to understand the Kreider, Strome, Buch, Skjei, DeAngelo situations within the context of this timing. And JG and JD need to have a plan for how to flip futures we'd get in any trades for players who can have a more near-term impact. So, if the Rangers get what turns out to be a 30th OA draft pick and a B level prospect in a Kreider trade -- is that really the right move? Like don't we need to get an asset that can be more impactful sooner? Or an asset we're confident can help us land an asset that can make a more immediate impact? And if that's the case, are we just trading CK because of the cap? And is that the smartest way to build a team?

You can trade players for young players who don't take 5-6 years to hit their prime. It's better to trade Kreider than let him walk is it not? Getting another draft pick in the first can be used to further move up in the 1st round or to trade for another young player.

 

[gravey9]

Who said you need to only get draft picks? You can trade players for young players who don't take 5-6 years to hit their prime..

You're talking about acquiring a B+/A prospect. It's possible Kreider could return that. But I can't think of a single pure rental that has returned that in this era.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

You're talking about acquiring a B+/A prospect. It's possible Kreider could return that. But I can't think of a single pure rental that has returned that in this era.

Kreider's stock is pretty high right now and he is the prize of the deadline with a lot of teams possibly trying to make a splash. He may get a better haul than previous deadlines.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Nobody is letting Tony D go. IF he is moved (big IF) it will only be if the Rangers can bring back a front line forward. That's it. I've got a few ideas but whenever I post a name, it takes the conversation off on a tangent.

What?

I never suggested we’re just, letting ADA go.

I responded to Decimus Meridus’s post saying Kreider isn’t replaceable and ADA is.

And a few posts before that, I even asked what would people be happy with if we did trade ADA straight up for another player.

C’mon man....

 

[gravey9]

You're talking about acquiring a B+/A prospect. It's possible Kreider could return that. But I can't think of a single pure rental that has returned that in this era.

Continuing: Take all of our previous rental trades as an example.

Nash returned a draft pick that eventually turned into K'Andre Miller -- this year 2 since he's been drafted. He's likely to spend another year in college or the AHL. He may make the Rangers in his D+4 season.

McDonagh trade. Howden, Hajek. A draft pick that turned into Nils Lundkvist and Karl Henriksson. Lundkvist will be in his D+3 next season and again, may only be in the A or SHL.

Point is, these late 1st round picks for rentals take years. And the best prospect we got in any of our recent rental trades is Ryan Lindgren.

Maybe they can get more for Kreider given the market. But again, Mark Stone last season only got Brannstrom because VGK was able to extend Stone immediately.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Kreider's stock is pretty high right now and he is the prize of the deadline with a lot of teams possibly trying to make a splash. He may get a better haul than previous deadlines.

With Vancouver’s injury issues and Benning knowing his career depends on them making the playoffs, I wonder if we could pry Virtanen out of Vancouver in a Kreider deal. Pretty much a younger version of Kreider, I think Jake has worse IQ but more grit & a better shot.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

I love ADA Kupo...I do but the intangibles the Kreider provides to the team including things like leadership for the kiddies we got are immeasurable. That said, I'd love to keep ADA and Kreider if possible.

Hopefully it doesn't come to that and we can keep both but bottom line is I don't want to let Kreider go...that's where I'm coming from!!.

Sadly, it will come to that. We can’t afford to give ADA + CK the contracts they’re worth this summer unless Gorton does some major shuffling. But the difference is, we’ll be paying ADA during his prime versus paying Kreider a similar amount during the latter stage of his career.

The fact that ADA, as a 24 year old dmen is going to surpass CK’s career highs makes this an incredibly easy decision for us if we had to choose.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Sadly, it will come to that. We can’t afford to give ADA + CK the contracts they’re worth this summer unless Gorton does some major shuffling. But the difference is, we’ll be paying ADA during his prime versus paying Kreider a similar amount during the latter stage of his career.

The fact that ADA, as a 24 year old dmen is going to surpass CK’s career highs makes this an incredibly easy decision for us if we had to choose.

I like Kreider but I feel he is overrated by our fanbase due to him being our homegrown 1st rounder in a time where we basically traded every pick we had