Speculation: Roster Building Thread 2019-20: Part XXIX

[mas0764]

resign #20 for 7 more years at 7 mil

or

trade him for a 1st and a prospect ( standard fair for a rental) PLUS the cap space to resign YOUNGER players who will have a greater impact both short term and long term. we can also reallocate that $$ for adding an impact FA who can fill a hole.

the numbers support this decision. players drop off dramatically after 27 yrs of age and the dreaded long term contract with NTC is usually to be avoided at all costs.

if its really 7/7 then its a no brainer.

7/5 and a LNTC OR 5/7 and im listening

Trading him and then bringing him back over the summer on a contract like that would be worth it.

I don't understand why that is assumed to not be possible (coming back after being traded I mean, not necessarily the terms of the contract).

 

[mas0764]

Ah yes the typical empty reply from another clueless poster.

Put me on ignore if you don't like what I have to say.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Not really, we don't.

I'd say we need two more young top 6 pieces.... with one being fine as a longer term project than the other. One replaces Kreider/Buch in the top 6 relatively soon, the other to eventually replace someone like Panarin or Zibanejad, could be a plus third liner till that time comes.

Lol, he just signed a 7 year deal. That young forward gonna be 30 by the time he replaces Panarin.

 

[mas0764]

Kreider continues to be hard for me to evaluate without knowing what else is out there. When it's Kreider or "no Kreider and desperately hunting for a replacement" that kind of skews things. But if losing Kreider frees up the assets and space to bring in a younger power winger, or they have their eyes on a really good prospect of a similar mold, then it changes the landscape in a significant way. Kreider is a unique player, but I don't believe he's the only option on the table to fill the hole he would be leaving.

Kreider absolutely frees up resources. We have our own first rounder in a draft with 6-8 top talent forwards in it. Trading Kreider will increase the (non-lottery winning) value of that pick (and also increase our odds of actually winning the lottery). The first round pick we get back is strong ammunition to target and trade up to acquire one of those players.

Are they guaranteed to be better than Kreider? No, of course not, but most of them project to be real first line players at this point. Will they take a couple years to develop, of course they will, but again, we are aiming for 2-3 years out anyway, not next year.

Trading Kreider is the right move no matter what way you slice it, because it's the best long-term move.

And if the objective isn't building the best team long term, well, it should be.

 

[RGY]

Kreider continues to be hard for me to evaluate without knowing what else is out there. When it's Kreider or "no Kreider and desperately hunting for a replacement" that kind of skews things. But if losing Kreider frees up the assets and space to bring in a younger power winger, or they have their eyes on a really good prospect of a similar mold, then it changes the landscape in a significant way. Kreider is a unique player, but I don't believe he's the only option on the table to fill the hole he would be leaving.

My concern with that position from the trade Kreider camp is that you are assuming the right player will come along to trade said assets for to replace Kreider’s presence in the top 6. Or that a player will come along at all. Otherwise were left with a hole that isn’t filled next year, the year after next, or even the year after that one. What likely happens then is we force feed minutes to Kakko and/or someone else, which includes more responsibility and the team does not progress. And i just dont see the Front Office being ok with that. Its great to assume a young talent will become available that we can move our multitude of assets for but those are just hypotheticals, hopes and dreams, until they actually happen. Which also btw when that player does become available you are making a trade...do we also just assume were the only ones at the table? So then to get that asset to finally fill the void left by Kreider we are giving up an extra asset or two to make that deal happen, subtracting from our pool of depth that would help manage the cap with young players on ELCs. OR to move the assets for another piece.

Its just not that simple to move Kreider imo.

 

[mas0764]

Lol, he just signed a 7 year deal. That young forward gonna be 30 by the time he replaces Panarin.

I mean, you get an 18 year old this year or next year, then he takes 2-3 years to develop, we are looking at a guy ready to break into the NHL in 3-4 years, so at a time when Panarin is 31 or 32. I'm optimistic Panarin can play at a top-line level till 35, but, if not, or if we lose someone else to free agency, that kid is well timed to be getting into the NHL at a time we will need him. Or who knows, maybe Zibanejad needs replacing in the top 6 before then.

 

[Edge]

I've only seen 3 say yes.

I think I've got 5, with some concern over the NMC.

I think I have a few more who want 7x6. Push comes to shove, without answering for them, I don't think they be too upset if the 7th year has to be included. I think there might be quite a few in that category. I think there are probably quite a few who don't like 7x7, aren't necessarily going to state a strong opposition to it.

My guess is that the number is probably higher than if I asked 2 months ago, or than if I asked 5 months ago.

 

[RGY]

I think I've got 5, with some concern over the NMC.

I think I have a few more who want 7x6. Push comes to shove, without answering for them, I don't think they be too upset if the 7th year has to be included. I think there might be quite a few in that category.

My guess is that the number is probably higher than if I asked 2 months ago, or than if I asked 5 months ago.

I know this is not the exercise but $6.75 aav is my max. So i am not voting at all

 

[Trxjw]

My concern with that position from the trade Kreider camp is that you are assuming the right player will come along to trade said assets for to replace Kreider’s presence in the top 6. Or that a player will come along at all. Otherwise were left with a hole that isn’t filled next year, the year after next, or even the year after that one. What likely happens then is we force feed minutes to Kakko and/or someone else, which includes more responsibility and the team does not progress. And i just dont see the Front Office being ok with that. Its great to assume a young talent will become available that we can move our multitude of assets for but those are just hypotheticals, hopes and dreams, until they actually happen. Which also btw when that player does become available you are making a trade...do we also just assume were the only ones at the table? So then to get that asset to finally fill the void left by Kreider we are giving up an extra asset or two to make that deal happen, subtracting from our pool of depth that would help manage the cap with young players on ELCs. OR to move the assets for another piece.

Its just not that simple to move Kreider imo.

Well that's kind of what I'm saying in my post. I'm saying that knowing the right player is already available would change things drastically. Is there a player out there who is 23/24 and ready to take a big step forward with a new team and a better role? Is there a prospect out there banging on the door of the NHL who could step in and make an impact right away? Is there a more established young power-forward on a team who needs to split one great asset into two very good ones? Those conversations are happening right now, and since we aren't privy to them, it's hard to judge the landscape. I don't think the Rangers are going to trade Kreider and then go into next season without making a serious attempt to replace what they lost.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Kreider absolutely frees up resources. We have our own first rounder in a draft with 6-8 top talent forwards in it. Trading Kreider will increase the (non-lottery winning) value of that pick (and also increase our odds of actually winning the lottery). The first round pick we get back is strong ammunition to target and trade up to acquire one of those players.

and if the Rangers move Kreider and end up outside a top 6-8 talent in the draft means the existing parts were interchangeable (or they were very unlucky in the lottery)

it’s tough for fans to replace the closest thing we had to Norris trophy winner when Captain McD was moved only years after we couldn’t possibly move another Captain and “heart of the team” Callahan. Then we couldn’t move our next heart in Zuccarello and there is a sentimental value to keeping Hank as long as he likes. Now we’re onto Kreider.

I’m thankful for a rebuild rather an all out desperation mode to “win one Cup for Hank”

One more deadline sell off

 

[NYRangers16]

Can we get a kreider contract poll?

 

[Ola]

@Fitzy I think Tkachev has more potential, but I think that Barabanov is much easier to fit into a lineup and would be a safer option that still has potential to play in any line form 1 to 4 (but never as a goto guy).

I also think Barabanov would fit in really well with the players we have.

But I would love Tkachev too.

 

[Blue Blooded]

Wings fans apparently don't know what they have in Patrik NEMETH and would gladly trade him for a 3rd.

Signed for one more year at $3M and is one of the best defencemen in the league at limiting chances around the net. Great way to put Staal out to pasture and could even allow us to trade Skjei without gutting our LD corps.

Get on it Gorts.

 

[pld459666]

I'm not asking people what they think.

We have a thousand pages on what people think, suspect, feel, see, smell, hear, etc. And many of those are opinions are steered by personal feelings or what "we" want the situation to be.

I am trying to give us a tangible to react.

The deal on the table is 7x7.

Pass.

Trade the player, get the assets and what ever else we can use his current base salary on be that resigning ADA, or shoring up the 3rd and 4th lines

 

[pld459666]

My guess is that there are maybe 2 or 3 people on this board who would, and everyone else who will say no. If we want to include people who believe Kreider will sign at a lower price point, then the numbers will be more balanced, I'd wager.

The interesting thing for me is, what will be the reaction if we do end up re-signing him?

I'll be happy to have the player.

I'll be sad to have the cap hit.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Brassard scored 7 more points than Mika the season before they were traded, and Mika is 5 years younger. If we could move Kreider for another LW who is 5 years younger and scored just slightly less than him, I think everyone would be in favor of that. But as a rental he won't return that.

The player doesnt have to score similar points this year, he just has to do it at some point, we arent in a huge hurry here, year 2 of the build. If he returned Kostin as someone suggested that would be something that could work the same way. If you looked at a graph of Brassard vs Zibanajad and their point totals it would have made an X a long time ago. Same could be possible for the player we get back for Kreider.

 

[duhmetreE]

Kreider will be a stud throughout his contract.
That late draftpick will turn out to be a stud.

What has a better chance of happening? Some people are convinced that Kreider will be washed up, but sound confident we will find a stud.

 

[BBKers]

If we were to get one (Kreider), or even 2 (Skjei to Carolina?), additional later first rounders in 2020 (along with a couple of developing players a la Lemieux), they can either be used to upgrade our own #1 pick (hopefully Top 8) - or they can be swapped, maybe with other organisational pieces, under the hyped feeding frenzy that always takes place at the draft, to get more ready NHL products. Plus over 12,5 M in cap space allotted to fill those 2 holes/resign other players on their upward projected traction curve of their development. Why is this so hard to get?

 

[B17 Apricots]

resign #20 for 7 more years at 7 mil

or

trade him for a 1st and a prospect ( standard fair for a rental) PLUS the cap space to resign YOUNGER players who will have a greater impact both short term and long term. we can also reallocate that $$ for adding an impact FA who can fill a hole.

the numbers support this decision. players drop off dramatically after 27 yrs of age and the dreaded long term contract with NTC is usually to be avoided at all costs.

if its really 7/7 then its a no brainer.

7/5 and a LNTC OR 5/7 and im listening

That's the thing I don't think should be understated here, whether it's Strome, Kreider, etc, their replacement doesn't have to immediately come through trade. You can insulate your young guys with some FAs if nothing else. It's a situation where you can keep from throwing your young guys to the wolves and add someone who may compliment the core or just be a future trade chip. Theres a few different tiers of FAs this year. Obviously some of these guys will be re-signed, some will make it to FA. There's a higher tier of guys like Hall, Pietrangelo, Krug, etc. A tier below with guys like Pageau, Barrie, Granlund, etc. And another couple tiers below that. I'd be looking at a guy like Haula. Hasn't played much the past couple years so I doubt anyone will commit long term to him. Svechnikov is gonna get +8 million, Hamilton is gonna get a raise, so for Erik I do wonder what the interest will be on both sides. He's the prime candidate for me, a year or 2 at 5 million, maybe a fellow countryman to play with Kakko... anyway my point is there's a number of realistic FAs that can be solid stapgaps if our guys get moved

 

[Lion Hound]

Wings fans apparently don't know what they have in Patrik NEMETH and would gladly trade him for a 3rd.

Signed for one more year at $3M and is one of the best defencemen in the league at limiting chances around the net. Great way to put Staal out to pasture and could even allow us to trade Skjei without gutting our LD corps.

Get on it Gorts.

I wonder what Nikita Zadorov's chart looks like?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Kreider will be a stud throughout his contract.
That late draftpick will turn out to be a stud.

What has a better chance of happening? Some people are convinced that Kreider will be washed up, but sound confident we will find a stud.

Who is saying we will get a stud with the late 1st?

It's a very strong draft, if we end up with a 2nd liner that from that pick that would be the jackpot(along with the good prospect we acquire who hopefully turns the same).

Or we use that late pick to move up in the draft. Nobody is saying we will get the next Wayne Gretzky with that late 1st.

What good is a Kreider tied up for 7 years when he is declining during our peak years? How fast people forget how inconsistent this guy has been his entire career with us aside from the last 2 months during his contact year

 

[DutchShamrock]

Kreider will be a stud throughout his contract.
That late draftpick will turn out to be a stud.

What has a better chance of happening? Some people are convinced that Kreider will be washed up, but sound confident we will find a stud.

Those aren't the only options. What about that late 1st plus Buchnevich for a Trouba level forward? Maybe Arizona has to shed a young wing to fit Hall's new cap hit? Maybe Calgary wants a shake up and that package is enticing? Does Mike Hoffman have trouble finding a team?

 

[Thirty One]

Kreider will be a stud throughout his contract.
That late draftpick will turn out to be a stud.

What has a better chance of happening? Some people are convinced that Kreider will be washed up, but sound confident we will find a stud.

We would get the draft pick for 3 years on an ELC, four more 4 RFA years and first shot at negotiating the UFA years. We would get Kreider at stud money for a period of time that he may or may not be a stud.

 

[Tossed Medal]

With the Jay Bo tragedy I hope JG is on the phone with the Blues selling Skjei . Skjei would fit very well in their structure and look very good I get .

 

[TheBloodyNine]

Kreider will be a stud throughout his contract.
That late draftpick will turn out to be a stud.

What has a better chance of happening? Some people are convinced that Kreider will be washed up, but sound confident we will find a stud.

Option 2 by a mile