Speculation: Roster Building LX: The Return of Cap(tain) Crunch aka LB Bus Stop Theme

[TheBloodyNine]

they need to make 2 moves whether its 2 trades, a trade and a buyout whatever and dealing buch would be 1 of the moves. if you were gonna sign buch for $3 mil then trading buch would be the same as trading strome as it would 'remove' $3 mil, and then you need to clear 3 mil less from the original goal to get the other 2 signed.

Which is pretty much what I've said all along. Trading just him doesn't help us.

 

[Kovalev27]

For me it’s shattenkirk namestnikov now and Strome and probably Fast next season.

Bye bye

Then the big bucks come off Staal hank smith etc the following year.

But I’m not sacrificing actual talent in CK and Buchy to keep any of The guys mentioned above here. No way.

 

[BBKers]

I'm as much of a Kreider fan as anyone but his value is never going to be higher. I think we know what he is, and the idea that he will be healthy and continue to play at this rate for 7 years is borderline crazy. He hasnt exactly been the picture of health, played injured when it wasnt necessary for stretches and for guys of his style of play their careers arent normally lengthy. I like him but I'd be guessing there would be 2 mill per and about 3 years between him and Gorton. If he is 5 mill for 4 or 5 years he will be here...i seriously doubt he does that.

It will be higher at the TDL.

 

[charliemurphy]

I'm as much of a Kreider fan as anyone but his value is never going to be higher. I think we know what he is, and the idea that he will be healthy and continue to play at this rate for 7 years is borderline crazy. He hasnt exactly been the picture of health, played injured when it wasnt necessary for stretches and for guys of his style of play their careers arent normally lengthy. I like him but I'd be guessing there would be 2 mill per and about 3 years between him and Gorton. If he is 5 mill for 4 or 5 years he will be here...i seriously doubt he does that.

This.
Gotta get on the phone with Colorado, LA, Anaheim, Vancouver, SJ and Montreal.

 

[Mac n Gs]

MaxPac. I think he and Pacioretty are similar except one is a legitimate 30 goal scorer.

I'd say they're similar size and speed-wise, but Patches always had the better shot and higher skill level to attack defenses through seams.

Even using him as a comparable should be a bit worrisome since he had the really bad year in MTL before the trade, and while he rebounded last year, he still posted numbers that were below his career average. Luckily they got Stone because he really helped turn around Patches game from the deadline forward. If that can continue, he should be fine, but not ideal, for the duration of that 4 x $7M that just kicked in this summer.

I still think you'll get some good years from Chris, one of which will be this upcoming season. After that, I'd peg him for another 2-3 years before starts falling off, which would leave him with 4 years and ~$7M aav left assuming he signs a 7x$7M extension. Like I said, I like him a lot, but I really don't want to be on the hook for the tail-end of that deal.

Could he prove me wrong? Absolutely, and I hope he does because I want to see him cash in on a big payday. I just don't think we can take the risk of another long-term contract when we have improved wing depth in the system and will need future space for post-ELC contracts and a Mika extension (to be determined on his health status).

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

That would be great. I'd love for Conor Timmins to come back in any deal with the Avalanche (assuming he's healthy).

Something like Timmins, Shane Bowers and a first for an extended Kreider?

 

[Leetch3]

Which is pretty much what I've said all along. Trading just him doesn't help us.

but it does help...it doesn't solve the issue but it still helps as part of the solution

 

[Shesterkybomb]

It will be higher at the TDL.

It wont if he is injured. I mean we need some cap space and i would rather do this now instead of having to move someone like Buchnevich or lose someone like Lemieux who should both be part of our future going forward atleast for the next few years.

 

[Leetch3]

For me it’s shattenkirk namestnikov now and Strome and probably Fast next season.

Bye bye

Then the big bucks come off Staal hank smith etc the following year.

But I’m not sacrificing actual talent in CK and Buchy to keep any of The guys mentioned above here. No way.

they aren't sacrificing them to keep anyone...if they are moved its because we decided that we don't want to commit to them long term and are going to deal them anyway. if you are going to trade kreider anyone than dealing him now vs the deadline isn't being done to keep someone else

 

[TheDirtyH]

Based on the data, it doesn't seem that play-driving metrics and scoring rate metrics decline equally. It doesn't agree with common perception, but Kreider's main value comes in his defensive impact at 5v5 and his scoring at 5v4. Kreider is an elite winger because of his ability to drive transition, puck possession, and raise scoring rates on the powerplay. If he's not scoring at 34, there's reason to believe he'll still be very effective in these areas which are, after all, his greatest strengths as a player.

With Panarin and Kreider, the Rangers have arguably 2 of the top 10-15 LWs in the league on their roster. Especially since after Zibanejad we're looking at near-teenagers with very thin resumes in being impact NHL players as our centers (not to mention having our hopes at RW tied up in younger, if more promising, players who have yet to play a game), having two first line wingers who are elite at driving play and getting their linemates the puck in all three zones would be invaluable not just to competing now, but to aiding these kids in their development and putting them in positions to succeed.

I agree with @Machinehead that Kreider gets seriously underrated. If the Rangers are serious about icing a competent team this year, losing Kreider without a clear replacement in the system could be disastrous. As much as you have to worry about what years 5-7 of his next contract could look like, you have to consider how those first 1-4 years might go without him and what it will mean for years 5-7 if those first ones are terrible.

 

[bobbop]

MaxPac. I think he and Pacioretty are similar except one is a legitimate 30 goal scorer.

If you look at Max's performance over the last two years, that's exactly what the Rangers are trying to avoid. Max got a four year (4X$7MM) contract starting at 29. That's exactly what Kreider is worth.

 

[Leetch3]

If you look at Max's performance over the last two years, that's exactly what the Rangers are trying to avoid. Max got a four year (4X$7MM) contract starting at 29. That's exactly what Kreider is worth.

I think the rangers would sign kreider today for 4 years...don't think he'd take it though

 

[Rangerfan4life90]

I think the rangers would sign kreider today for 4 years...don't think he'd take it though

Yeah, I like to think if both sides wanted a 4-year deal, it would have happened already.

 

[Ken Lund]

ive said this before but the rosters people are running out are pretty light on grit, jam, pugnacity, and truculence.

as constituted they're gonna get bodied pretty hard, it may not happen before the season for structural reasons but there's probably a trade or two in the works this year to add some McGrits at the expense of skill this year. id be shocked if Quinn was good with the lineup as is

They may be low on grit and truculence. Maybe even pugnacity. But we've got jam baby! Oh boy we've got jam!

 

[JC704]

For me it’s shattenkirk namestnikov now and Strome and probably Fast next season.

Bye bye

Then the big bucks come off Staal hank smith etc the following year.

But I’m not sacrificing actual talent in CK and Buchy to keep any of The guys mentioned above here. No way.

I agree with this. If you can't move Shatty, I have no problem with him competing for minutes with Deangelo/Fox. If he surprises everybody this season, chances are he's playing much better than we all think.

They have ways to get under the cap without moving Kreider ($1) for two quarters.

 

[Wind Waker]

Based on the data, it doesn't seem that play-driving metrics and scoring rate metrics decline equally. It doesn't agree with common perception, but Kreider's main value comes in his defensive impact at 5v5 and his scoring at 5v4. Kreider is an elite winger because of his ability to drive transition, puck possession, and raise scoring rates on the powerplay. If he's not scoring at 34, there's reason to believe he'll still be very effective in these areas which are, after all, his greatest strengths as a player.

With Panarin and Kreider, the Rangers have arguably 2 of the top 10-15 LWs in the league on their roster. Especially since after Zibanejad we're looking at near-teenagers with very thin resumes in being impact NHL players as our centers (not to mention having our hopes at RW tied up in younger, if more promising, players who have yet to play a game), having two first line wingers who are elite at driving play and getting their linemates the puck in all three zones would be invaluable not just to competing now, but to aiding these kids in their development and putting them in positions to succeed.

I agree with @Machinehead that Kreider gets seriously underrated. If the Rangers are serious about icing a competent team this year, losing Kreider without a clear replacement in the system could be disastrous. As much as you have to worry about what years 5-7 of his next contract could look like, you have to consider how those first 1-4 years might go without him and what it will mean for years 5-7 if those first ones are terrible.

Kreider isn't a Top-15 LW lol

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Based on the data, it doesn't seem that play-driving metrics and scoring rate metrics decline equally. It doesn't agree with common perception, but Kreider's main value comes in his defensive impact at 5v5 and his scoring at 5v4. Kreider is an elite winger because of his ability to drive transition, puck possession, and raise scoring rates on the powerplay. If he's not scoring at 34, there's reason to believe he'll still be very effective in these areas which are, after all, his greatest strengths as a player.

With Panarin and Kreider, the Rangers have arguably 2 of the top 10-15 LWs in the league on their roster. Especially since after Zibanejad we're looking at near-teenagers with very thin resumes in being impact NHL players as our centers (not to mention having our hopes at RW tied up in younger, if more promising, players who have yet to play a game), having two first line wingers who are elite at driving play and getting their linemates the puck in all three zones would be invaluable not just to competing now, but to aiding these kids in their development and putting them in positions to succeed.

I agree with @Machinehead that Kreider gets seriously underrated. If the Rangers are serious about icing a competent team this year, losing Kreider without a clear replacement in the system could be disastrous. As much as you have to worry about what years 5-7 of his next contract could look like, you have to consider how those first 1-4 years might go without him and what it will mean for years 5-7 if those first ones are terrible.

Nobody said you couldnt get a replacement that was already signed to a reasonable contract this year or next year. I would actually guess that would be the plan. Would a deal for an underchieving Lawson Crouse and a 2nd or 3rd for Kreider help both teams? He is signed for 3 years and maybe like Strome when he left Arizona could find his way with NY. Not saying him specifically but that type of move that allows you to help now, possibly the future and allows you to keep players you might have had to move ie Buch or Lemieux. Just a thought. Also with Crouse it gives us more grit for the kids.

 

[Mikos87]

If you look at Max's performance over the last two years, that's exactly what the Rangers are trying to avoid. Max got a four year (4X$7MM) contract starting at 29. That's exactly what Kreider is worth.

I'd say slightly under that on an AAV. Like $6.3M-$6.65M on four years, and that's stretching it.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I'd say slightly under that on an AAV. Like $6.3M-$6.65M on four years, and that's stretching it.

Kreider isnt taking a short contract imo. That last injury pretty much guaranteed that I'd say.

 

[TheTakedown]

Kreider isnt taking a short contract imo. That last injury pretty much guaranteed that I'd say.

I didn't realize that Max only had a 4 year deal.

Possible they can get Kreider for $6x6? @BBKers ?

 

[DanielBrassard]

No chance Kreider would take a short term deal unless it's for a very high AAV, probably 8.5-9M over 4 years. That's how I see it. And it might be worth it especially if they can avoid a NMC before the expansion draft, but that's unlikely.

 

[SA16]

The guy to get from Arizona is Garland, not Crouse.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

The guy to get from Arizona is Garland, not Crouse.

Sure, I was more looking to replace some size on the team but something similar for sure.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Just for fun, what if Howden, Lias and Chytil added 75 more points this year. Howden 15 more, Lias 20 more and Chytil 40. None of that is really outlandish, Andersson only played half the year last year and Howden slowed down after Christmas. Chytil either playing with Panarin or centering his own line might increase production especially because he will likely be used more on the pp. That might propel us into a playoff spot with the additions of Kappo, Vitali ,Artemi, Trouba and Fox. It's fun to hope

 

[DanielBrassard]

Just for fun, what if Howden, Lias and Chytil added 75 more points this year. Howden 15 more, Lias 20 more and Chytil 40. None of that is really outlandish, Andersson only played half the year last year and Howden slowed down after Christmas. Chytil either playing with Panarin or centering his own line might increase production especially because he will likely be used more on the pp. That might propel us into a playoff spot with the additions of Kappo, Vitali ,Artemi, Trouba and Fox. It's fun to hope

I can't see Chytil putting up 60+, but if he does it would be fantastic