Speculation: Roster Building LX: The Return of Cap(tain) Crunch aka LB Bus Stop Theme

[GeorgeKaplan]

Woah, Lucic was a good skater for his size, he was never Kreider

I think he means he was just as good in terms of as a player rather than as a skater

 

[Levitate]

I think he means he was just as good in terms of as a player rather than as a skater

Eh then it was poorly phrased then. It definitely sounds like he was saying Lucic was as good a skater as Kreider.

As I recall Lucic had pretty good straight forward speed when he got going but it wasn't really the strength to his game

 

[Mikos87]

I don't see Kreider getting 7 years on the open market. I really don't. 5 is the max, and that's from the team that signs him as a UFA.

But if I were a betting man, I would think that most teams offer 4 years $26M and maybe 1 or 2 go to 5 years and $33M.

For all of the reasons why some of you list why it's a bad idea to go to 7x$7, most professional hockey execs would feel the same way.

July 1st 2016 was the day a number of GMs signed their jobs away, or are on the hot seat.

Lucic- Chiarelli Fired
Okposo- Murray Fired
Erikson- Benning Hot Seat
Ladd- Snow Fired

Those signings weren't the sole reason they were relieved, but those signings prevent their teams from being able to improve. You have a couple of others, who have had success are trying to get out of or had to buyout the player.

Backes- Just went to the cup finals, but was a healthy scratch in the playoffs at times. Team is looking to get out of the deal.
Brouwer- Bought out.

Outside of a Joe Thornton, big power forwards don't age well in today's game. Kreider is known for his speed, but in all honesty, how often does he skate at full speed and show up that way? Jason Chimera was effective as a 37 year old. So there is that, but I don't see teams making a bet on Kreider with term.

 

[SA16]

Woah, Lucic was a good skater for his size, he was never Kreider

I didn't mean he was a good skater. As a quality of player he was a better scorer also with tremendous possession results.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

Seems to me the path forward is trading Kreider now or as the season starts (like Duchene was), and hang onto Namestnikov until the deadline

No one is taking Vlad at the full 4 million, but at the reduced deadline hit, I’d imagine multiple teams would be interested

 

[Kovalev27]

Considering zucc got 5 years at 32 years of age someone will give CK 7 years when hes 29 years old. Guy is built like a machine. Total freak athlete. He’ll play and play well till he’s 35 at least. Zero doubt in my mind

 

[NYR Viper]

Seems to me the path forward is trading Kreider now or as the season starts (like Duchene was), and hang onto Namestnikov until the deadline

No one is taking Vlad at the full 4 million, but at the reduced deadline hit, I’d imagine multiple teams would be interested

See, the question becomes:

Does Gorton want so many of his young players around that type of press coverage. Reporters constantly asking about when/if those guys will be traded, etc.

I'd move Vlad with salary retained right now. To EDM for their 3rd '20 + 3rd '21

I'd move Kreider with salary retained AND a conditional pick coming back if he re-signs with that team (say it's Jost + COL 1st '20 + Conditional 2nd '21 if he re-signs)

I'd then buyout Staal and demote Smith to start the season

Just remove the questions surrounding the team in totality. Play the young guys. That way, if the team overachieves and is close to a playoff spot Gorton isn't in that tough spot of needing to sell for the future while not killing the mood in the room.

 

[RGY]

Comparing Kreider to guys like Lucic is a waste of time. It is apples and oranges. Especially trying to use that comparison to determine if Kreider will completely fall off a cliff in the next 4-5 years.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

Considering zucc got 5 years at 32 years of age someone will give CK 7 years when hes 29 years old. Guy is built like a machine. Total freak athlete. He’ll play and play well till he’s 35 at least. Zero doubt in my mind

Kevin Hayes (though a C) who has had well publicized issues with his conditioning in the past got 7x7. It only takes one.

 

[Kovalev27]

Comparing Kreider to guys like Lucic is a waste of time. It is apples and oranges. Especially trying to use that comparison to determine if Kreider will completely fall off a cliff in the next 4-5 years.

It’s absurd

 

[RangerBoy]

 

[NYR Viper]

Comparing Kreider to guys like Lucic is a waste of time. It is apples and oranges. Especially trying to use that comparison to determine if Kreider will completely fall off a cliff in the next 4-5 years.

I could see Kreider falling into that 20g, 40p role in a few years time. He will always be a match-up nightmare, especially in today's NHL with so many smaller d-men. Maybe a bit more productive Chimera

 

[FIRE DRURY]

I don't see Kreider getting 7 years on the open market. I really don't. 5 is the max, and that's from the team that signs him as a UFA.

Not a chance in hell he doesn't get 7 years, unless a team is offering him a significantly higher cap hit for less term which I don't see happening.

 

[NYR Viper]

This next contract is going to be Kreider's major deal in his life-time. He should try and max it out. He will be 29 when it starts. It may seem trivial to some of us, oh 6 years vs 7 years, but that difference could mean a very different lifestyle for him when he reaches 50 or 60 years old. He will, and rightly should cash in.

 

[SA16]

My offer for Kreider would be 2 years 20M structured such that Y1 total compensation is twice that of Y2 and the maximum amount of money is in signing bonuses. Would pay him out 19M in the first year. And then he can get a new deal after that year and be the big signing for Seattle. Doubt he would want to do something short term like that even for a lot of money up front though.

 

[Mac n Gs]

Plenty have people have used this comparison before for Kreider, but I think the best case scenario is he ages like Erik Cole. While he still was useful into his 30s, that's not the type of player I'd want to have ~9% of the cap dedicated to from ages 29-36. I like Kreider a lot, but he doesn't have the necessary skill to compensate for any future loss in speed, and I don't think we can be dedicating that much of our cap to someone who realistically will become a 3rd liner. It really sucks, but I think it's time to move on from him.

Since it seems like it's coming down to him and Buchnevich, and I'd rather take my chances on Buch being better through his mid-twenties than Kreider into his mid-30s.

 

[Lays]

Sometimes I think people 'fret' over timing too much. What happened with Fox, Trouba and Panarin is that the Rangers saw an opportunity that if they missed might not come along again in a long time. In Trouba's case--he's a player only a couple years older than Pionk and unless Ville Heinola becomes a legit 1st pairing D this trade is a steal. As for Panarin--timing says we should have waited two years and then seriously re-entered the UFA market--problem was in two years there won't be a player like Panarin around but the OTOH the timing of getting Panarin should be great for the progression of Kakko or Kravtsov or both. When great opportunities come along smart GM's take advantage of them.

Even if Heinola becomes a 1D this trade is still a steal. Draft picks at the time are draft picks at the time, small chance the Rangers would’ve picked Heinola there (i’d say almost zero because he’s redundant in our org.)

And as for Panarin, we did great by picking him up. The best time to go for it is when you have guys like Kakko and Kravtsov on ELC’s because there’s more cap room for quality. After their ELC’s that combo could be making upwards of 16 mil (and likely much higher.) Call me crazy but I think we’re cup contenders in 2-3 years, not just playoff contenders

Now for Kreider, I think he’s moved pretty soon. What if Gorton waits until the deadline to sell him but at that point we’re close to the playoffs/in the playoffs. What kind of message does it send? And what if the rookies take over Kreider’s ice time and he has a down season/injured season? I think he’d want to avoid that possibility. I know we sold in 2018 when we were a few points out of the playoffs but this is different because we’re on the upswing now and not the downswing

 

[TheTakedown]

Considering zucc got 5 years at 32 years of age someone will give CK 7 years when hes 29 years old. Guy is built like a machine. Total freak athlete. He’ll play and play well till he’s 35 at least. Zero doubt in my mind

and for that reason I kind of want to keep him....

Kreider-Zibanejad-Kakko
Kravstov-Strome/Chytil-Panarin
Lemeiux-Andersson/Chytil-Andersson/Chytil
Nieves-Howden-Fast

Trade Buchnevich, Trade/Buyout names, buyout Staal, bury Smith. Sign Kreider's extension on January 1st.

 

[MetalJaws]

CK should stay. Big front net presence, crazy size and speed and is a freak athlete off the ice. Good for the young guys. If he slows down he can be a hell of a 3rd line player.
Names should go. We have enough of this type of player now. We have ELC guys who can do what he does. Cheaper and better development wise.
Buch should go. Tough to let go but we have a lot of skill now, need someone who brings more. Even though he's old CK might me more valuable to the team. Doesn't look like a top 6 spot is his with the current roster we have. Prob our best trade chip. Return might very well be worth it. Kakko, Panarin, Kravtsov and Kreider top 6 wingers.
Smith should go. No brainier here. Figure it out JG, get this guy packin!
Let Strome walk or trade at deadline unless he really wants to be here and play RW/C for a discount.

Plenty of money for ADA, Lemieux and Kreider moving forward. Shatty, Staal and Hank gone after the next season. 21-22 is wide open cap. I think JG is in a pretty good spot, just trying to find the right deal for the guys that don't make the cut.

 

[MetalJaws]

and for that reason I kind of want to keep him....

Kreider-Zibanejad-Kakko
Kravstov-Strome/Chytil-Panarin
Lemeiux-Andersson/Chytil-Andersson/Chytil
Nieves-Howden-Fast

Trade Buchnevich, Trade/Buyout names, buyout Staal, bury Smith. Sign Kreider's extension on January 1st.

or this haha.

 

[Kovalev27]

Kreider doesn’t have the skill to offset a loss in speed?

The guys game id argue now is even more importantly highlighted by his net front presence. Pavelski can barely skate at all and he’s still putting up 35 40 goals at 38 because of his net front presence. Kreider is becoming one of the best in the league at it but he adds even more. He is THE best in the league at setting screens on the PP. those points don’t show up on the score board but are equally as valuable. Ask Zibanejad how many pp goals he scores if CK isn’t standing in front of the net.

My best offer to CK would be 6 years 7 million knowing I won’t love the last year or 2 of that deal but that’s life in the nhl. Every team goes has their mid to late 30s guys finishing out their contracts. You just hope the decline is as late as possible. Given what he brings his style his freak athleticism I’m rolling the dice he can be a heck of a player for a long time.

 

[I Eat Crow]

There's no way that both Kreider and Namestnikov are on the opening night roster. It's just impossible unless Buchnevich is the guy dealt.

Even then, Kreider isn't going to be a Rangers after this season unless he takes another 4 year deal well below market value. He shouldn't and will not do that.

Take the best offer for Kreider now and deal Namestnikov at the deadline. Keep Buchnevich.

Keep Shattenkirk and let him build up his value again. His value can't possibly be any lower than it is now. He will have value next summer with only one year left and a salary lower than his cap hit.

Smith stinks. I think if he could be dealt at 50% retained he already would have been dealt. Buyout it is. C'est la vie.

 

[RGY]

There is a way that Kreider is on the opening night roster.

Namestnikov trade and Smith buyout.

 

[LORDE]

People really can't be taken seriously when predicting what this team will look like without Kreider (or with him for that matter)

This offseason has shown EASILY the most, and most significant turnover in maybe my lifetime.

Kreider is a very good player and 'disappears' should actually be characterized as 'inconsistent' but we can't say what he will be or won't be on this VERY different squad.

I own his jersey (Hank being the other "modern" NYR I have) so he's a fav. But his age and contract needs mean I move him.

 

[I Eat Crow]

There is a way that Kreider is on the opening night roster.

Namestnikov trade and Smith buyout.

Read my post again a little more carefully. Namestnikov or Buchnevich would have to go in any scenario where Kreider is on the team opening night.