Speculation: Roster Building Frenzy Part XX

[brians1128]

We can still sign him

You right, didnt know they have to wait one season.

 

[bobbop]

The longer the situation in Buffalo drags on, the leverage shifts to Eichel. He is not going to have the fusion. The Sabres may have the right to approve the surgery but Eichel can’t be obligated to have their preferred surgery. The clock is ticking on the 2021-22 season and Eichel’s impending NTC on 7/1/22. This is not going to turn out well for the Sabres and Drury is smart to bide his time. I’m quite sure the Rangers have a good understanding of the artificial disc procedure and what it would mean.

Patience, patience, patience!

 

[mas0764]

Okay, so Strome leaving covers Zib's raise. You've subtracted Chytil's 2.3 and Georgiev's 2.5, so we can add those numbers to the 13 mil in available space (~18 million). Now subtract Shesty (5.5) and Eichel and we have 2.5 million in cap space left. We still haven't re-signed Fox. We will still have to re-sign Miller, Kakko, Laf, Kravtsov.

Say Fox gives us a hometown discount and signs long-term for 8 million. Also let's say that Miller, Kakko, Laf, and Krav ALL sign 2.5 m bridge deals. That's 18 million dollars. We'd be 15 million dollars short.

Where's the money coming from?

Yeah even if Fox and Zibanejad both took 8m/yr it would be extraordinarily tight, just next season.

And that's not counting the following season when Miller and Laf would be up.

Frankly, I'm gonna say it again, one way or the other I think Trouba and/or Kreider will not be here more than another couple seasons. You paid Trouba not knowing Fox was going to be a Norris winner.

 

[bigdog16]

He hasn’t played since March. So, what good would it do?

All the tempo in the world and though it’s close Zibanejad comes out with better regular stats, scores more goals, is healthier, will play for the Rangers next season.

He has had better regular season stats in one season lol. Eichel outscored Zibanejad as an 18 year old, a 19 year old, a 20 year old, and a 21 year old - all on abysmal Buffalo teams. And these were during Zib's 22-26 year old years where he should've been outproducing Eichel

And Eichel has a higher goals per game average in his career. So half of your statement is blatantly incorrect - can't argue numbers

 

[jay from jersey]

Yeah even if Fox and Zibanejad both took 8m/yr it would be extraordinarily tight, just next season.

And that's not counting the following season when Miller and Laf would be up.

Frankly, I'm gonna say it again, one way or the other I think Trouba and/or Kreider will not be here more than another couple seasons. You paid Trouba not knowing Fox was going to be a Norris winner.

I think they would love to move 1 or both earlier then their clauses dictate. It a lot harder but it’s also not impossible.
I wonder when the caps going to go up as well. They said 3 years, then 5, but with the salaries going up and every GM signing crazy UFA deals it doesn’t look like they are too concerned.
I think 2 And a half 3 years was their target day. This way if they say 5 And come in under they all look like heroes. And all the owners and GMs can congratulate each other on being masters of the universe because they got the NHL financially roaring back. Smh

 

[Thirty One]

Wondering what options the Rangers are looking at in addition to Eichel.

@Tob have you heard anything?

 

[NikC]

Am I being a hopeless romantic or does this make anyone think once he gets cleared to play he may be coming back as a backup? Would kinda explain us not moving on Georgiev yet

love to sign him.. and trade him to WSH for Tom Wilson...

 

[Edge]

Am I being a hopeless romantic or does this make anyone think once he gets cleared to play he may be coming back as a backup? Would kinda explain us not moving on Georgiev yet

It would probably take a shift in his thinking as well.

I don't think he was particularly keen on coming back knowing he was the backup or serving in a mentor role. The split with the Rangers was amicable, but it wasn't one-sided either.

 

[Tob]

Wondering what options the Rangers are looking at in addition to Eichel.

@Tob have you heard anything?

Ya, save-on is doing a 1000 save-on points or $1.66 in gift card equivalent for a 4-pack of waffle cone ice cream sandwiches this week.

 

[CLW]

The longer the situation in Buffalo drags on, the leverage shifts to Eichel. He is not going to have the fusion. The Sabres may have the right to approve the surgery but Eichel can’t be obligated to have their preferred surgery. The clock is ticking on the 2021-22 season and Eichel’s impending NTC on 7/1/22. This is not going to turn out well for the Sabres and Drury is smart to bide his time. I’m quite sure the Rangers have a good understanding of the artificial disc procedure and what it would mean.

Patience, patience, patience!

I fully understand the fascination with Eichel, but it really is difficult to make it work and justify the risk, the cost in talent and the cap hit for just one player, as many have pointed out. I find it hard to believe Buffalo will just let this kid go for relative peanuts after having invested so much in him and based all their plans on him for years (including mistakes like Skinner). Even going back to last year's draft where they picked Quinn I felt that pick was with Eichel in mind.

Interestingly Buffalo's spine specialist, Dr. Cappuccino, is a leading developer of and expert on ADR, yet he is not advocating ADR in Eichel's case. Dr. Cappuccino is also the surgeon who has performed the most ADR operations in the US.

State of the Art Minimally Invasive Motion Preserving Spine Care
Innovator

During his training and continuing presently, Dr. Cappuccino has been an investigator in numerous studies and trials dedicated to improving spinal surgery outcomes and technologies. He is a sought after teacher of spine surgery techniques internationally. He has taught surgeons all over Europe, South America, Australia, Africa and Asia. He has authored numerous spine surgery textbook chapters and journal articles, contributing his expertise to spine doctors everywhere. Dr. Cappuccino has been a principle investigator on international teams of doctors who have developed artificial disc replacements for the neck and back.

Also:

Dr. Cappuccino Andrew, M.D. – AIMIS SPINE

Dr. Cappuccino has been a principle investigator on international teams of doctors who have developed artificial disc replacements for the neck and back. As an individual, he has performed more disc replacements than any other surgeon in the USA.

 

[EdJovanovski]

It would probably take a shift in his thinking as well.

I don't think he was particularly keen on coming back knowing he was the backup or serving in a mentor role. The split with the Rangers was amicable, but it wasn't one-sided either.

The setback with his heart surgery would likely cause a shift in his thinking though, no? He’d probably be happy just to play in the NHL at all after that. Do you think the Rangers would be open to bringing him back IF he wants to?

 

[Thirty One]

Ya, save-on is doing a 1000 save-on points or $1.66 in gift card equivalent for a 4-pack of waffle cone ice cream sandwiches this week.

What are waffle cone ice cream sandwiches?

 

[Tob]

What are waffle cone ice cream sandwiches?

I don't know but I'll let you know when I find out tomorrow.

 

[Thirty One]

Dr. Cappuccino. Yeah, right. Not falling for it.

 

[bl02]

If they go into the season with the team as is, are they favored to make the playoffs? Trade for Eichel, losing roster players, and he doesn't play for months, we favored to make the playoffs in that scenario too? Either way, what the f*** are we doing?

Stay the course. It Gallant is as good as we have seen him and the kids improve which they should I see no reason we can’t make it even if the East is a beast right now.

 

[Edge]

The setback with his heart surgery would likely cause a shift in his thinking though, no? He’d probably be happy just to play in the NHL at all after that. Do you think the Rangers would be open to bringing him back IF he wants to?

I honestly don't know, that's a pretty deep question.

I am going to guess there is probably still some skepticism as to whether that is the best path based on goals, personalities, etc.

We all love the idea of the sports hero mentoring his replacement and handing off the baton. The reality of that approach is far more complicated.

 

[bleedblue94]

I completely understood your context, and wasn't "avoiding" your root question. I explained why the question was pointless. You want to play hypotheticals? Fine. If, in 2012, before they discovered that Crosby wasn't suffering from what seemed to be one of the worst cases of post-concussion syndrome since Lindros, someone offered to trade Crosby for several major valuable pieces, I would have told them to go pound sand. At that point, Crosby had missed half or more of three straight seasons. He had ~10 game comebacks before a gust of air conditioning would knock him out again for months at a time. It looked like his career was over, and it would have been stupid to trade for him. Seeing as how none of us are Miss Cleo and in possession of future vision, nobody could have guessed that he was misdiagnosed and just needed a shot (interesting note---for those people who keep implying that 1997 medicine was the equivalent of a jar of leeches compared to medicine now, how'd they mis-diagnose the face of the game for three years just a decade ago?).

Again though, that example is utterly pointless. Yeah, you might have won that "calculated risk" if you'd traded for Crosby in 2012, but not because of anything from your calculations. I don't imagine that it's very likely that Eichel is going to reveal that he's been mis-diagnosed and will be back to his old self by getting a shot of potassium and some fiber. He has a serious neck injury that requires surgery that is among the riskier kinds of surgery (regardless of which version they choose) that a person can get. You like the Crosby example because you assume a miracle will happen if only we make the stupid gamble. In reality, if we trade for a broken player, we are FAR more likely to get LaFontaine/Bure outcomes than a Crosby miracle.

So you are someone who hates the risk on the lindross trade as well?

I'm done arguing with you bc we are just going in circles and I can respect a differing opinion. In a non-argumentative manner I ask you how do you see the balance between acquiring young elite level nhl players who comes with injury risk vs not even having the opportunity to acquire that type of player if he is healthy. In my mind those kind of players at prime age rarely are even a possibility. You have to luck into them or tank your way to them. Here I just see a unique chance to add a player that without the injury wouldn't be available or would actually cost what Adams asked for originally which no one would want to give up. I've never advocated for trading 4 prime assets for eichel.

Are you in the camp advocating to offer sheet Petersen for four 1sts?

 

[bleedblue94]

No he’s not. Eichel is a much much better player than Zib. Eichel controls the tempo of the game when hes on the ice. I dont think there is anything that Zib is better than Eichel at, if im being honest



Im not really for or against the Eichel situation. Its really based on what we are forced to cough up. But this is not a good comparison at all. There were warning signs to going after Karlsson who was like 29 at the time. Eichel is 24

Eichel will literally be a ufa off the books before he's even as old as karlsson was at the time of his trade

 

[Thirty One]

Are you in the camp advocating to offer sheet Petersen for four 1sts?

The Petterson who had a season-ending injury? No thank you.

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

Ouch

What ouch?

 

[Thirty One]

What ouch?

He stubbed his toe.

 

[bleedblue94]

The Petterson who had a season-ending injury? No thank you.

I'm not, but I'm asking him bc I'm just curious which risk he is willing to take on any of these center possibilities.

 

[Edge]

At some point Eichel's risk becomes worth a certain cost.

The challenge is getting down to that acceptable cost, which so far we haven't.

Even in those Kravtsov, Chytil, Schneider, Lundkvist groupings, there's hesitation there.

 

[Synergy27]

At some point Eichel's risk becomes worth a certain cost.

The challenge is getting down to that acceptable cost, which so far we haven't.

Even in those Kravtsov, Chytil, Schneider, Lundkvist groupings, there's hesitation there.

You also have to weigh the risk of losing Zibanejad. That’s the crux of this whole argument. Even if Eichel is an upgrade over Zibanejad (I don’t completely agree with that), he’s a marginal upgrade at best. Is that marginal upgrade worth the acquisition cost?

The pipe dream of having both of them is just that. It ain’t happening.

 

[smoneil]

So you are someone who hates the risk on the lindross trade as well?

I'm done arguing with you bc we are just going in circles and I can respect a differing opinion. In a non-argumentative manner I ask you how do you see the balance between acquiring young elite level nhl players who comes with injury risk vs not even having the opportunity to acquire that type of player if he is healthy. In my mind those kind of players at prime age rarely are even a possibility. You have to luck into them or tank your way to them. Here I just see a unique chance to add a player that without the injury wouldn't be available or would actually cost what Adams asked for originally which no one would want to give up. I've never advocated for trading 4 prime assets for eichel.

Are you in the camp advocating to offer sheet Petersen for four 1sts?

I'm not in favor of such an offer sheet (I'm wary of trading our 1st rounder in either of the next two drafts. People I respect who know more about it than I do have said the next two years are stacked--next year with depth and the following with generational top end talent).

I wasn't a fan of the Lindros trade either, nor the Nash trade. You are correct in that these kinds of players are rarely available. When they are, it's because there is a problem. Concussion issues, locker-room issues, wanting out because they have spent YEARS in a losing culture, etc. My concern with the Nash trade was that he had no real post-season experience to speak of, and we (at that time) were a team ready to compete for the Cup. Players need to learn how to play in the post-season. The vast majority of players get progressively better over their first few playoffs. I honestly think that if we had Dubinsky and AA instead of Nash, we would have been more likely to win the Cup against LA. To be fair to Nash, if we had the Nash from two years later, that would be true as well. He got better in the playoffs each year, but our best chance coincided with his "ghost" year (ie: his first real experience with playoff hockey).

I think it is very difficult to add such players without drafting in the top 3. Until recently, we'd literally never done that.

As such, I would advocate for building the team around the two high end picks that we have. They happen to both be wingers. The team is also absurdly deep on defense. That's the team we have. The Cap is going to be tied up in Panarin, Laf, Kakko, Kravtsov and Kreider. It's going to be tied up in Fox, Trouba, Miller, and the incoming depth guys. We don't have the money for multiple high end centers. We need to find guys who can bring elements that are missing (defense, physicality, face-off skill) and who can distribute the puck to our stars on the wings. There's no other way around it unless we want to blow things up in order to try and buy multiple top line centers (and I don't just mean the trade cost--I mean the cap casualties, as they will be numerous and painful). Remember when Drury and Gomez came in as the big signings, and we weren't sure which one was going to play with Jagr and put up HUGE numbers? Then neither of them did, and Jagr played with Dubinsky because the pair just fit better than either of the big name guys. That's what we need. Good "fit" guys to play center between our absurd number of top six wingers.

The short version is that people keep urging the team to go out and gamble on high profile talents. I want the team to focus on building a complete team around the high end talents that are already on the roster.