Speculation: Roster Building Frenzy Part XX

[Off Sides]

This is an over-reaction, in my view. I wasn't happy with the return on the Buch trade. I wasn't happy that they wasted a 3rd round pick on a guy who was scratched last year and was likely seen as a cap dump by VGK. But none of the guys brought in (Reaves, Blais, Goodrow, Hunt, etc) are replacing anyone from the rebuild. Those guys are replacing the non-name bottom six guys like Blackwell, Howden, and Smith. Nemeth was a fantastic signing, and Nemeth/Lundkvist will instantly be better than Johnson/Hajek/Smith.

I have my concerns about Drury, but the rebuild can still proceed apace. Unless they screw the pooch and blow our prospects and cap space on Eichel.

Prepare to see them do what they do, Eichel, or someone else, they have been doing this through history or at least since I have watched them in the early 80s. Part of that is replacing non named guys with more expensive yet not more effective players.

To put it another way, did you expect Howden, Hajek, etc to win them games last year, and was it really them who lost those games?

 

[jay from jersey]

@smoneil is correct in all he saying, yet the Rangers have never operated by not doing the opposite, your examples prove as much.

Panarin is not getting any younger, Fox, etc are going to cost a ton. Rangers are what they are.

No matter how correct you are, Rangers are reserving just enough cap space to fit Eichel.

That’s what I see. Even though in this instance it’s different then adding a player that has more miles on him and is in his late 20s early 30s
Rangers have shesty
A Norris caliber D leading a very good young solid D unit
Panarin and Zibby in their prime and ain’t getting younger
Our stud fwd kids are right at the age where they are going to really start making an impact

and a hole at 2C where they want an upgrade from strome. Besides the neck injury, he’s everything you want that player replacing strome to be. like I said it’s ultimately come down to cost to acquire, but his talent, and his age range fit with them going for a cup in the next 3-5 years time. Probably not going to be able to trade for or sign a guy with what Eichel can do, and with the upgrades they have made, drafting one isn’t likely. I figured they’ve made their decision already on the risk/reward and drury is trying to wait Adams out for the best price possible.
And If they do trade for him, it’s because they are comfortable enough when they see his medical records that he’ll return to normal after his surgery. Like I said in a previous post, if he was in such agonizing pain, I don’t know how’d he’d be skating and working out. No shot in hell I’d be able to.

 

[smoneil]

I responded bc you compared a known walking 32 year old concussion who was on his last legs that we trade for 24 years ago to eichel. Somehow you think that's a legit comparison but when I bring up a guy like Crosby who was at the same general age while also being a weighted risk I'm the one out to lunch.

He was 32. He was just about a PPG player before the last concussion. That doesn't sound very "last legs" to me. As for the concussions, he was cleared by personal and team neurologists as being A-OK good to go. If they were comfortable that he was going to be back to a "healthy LaFontaine" they why should WE question it?

You countered with a player who was misdiagnosed, didn't want experimental surgery, and was treated with a shot. Literally, there is nothing at all similar between the Crosby and Eichel cases except for their ages. The ONLY difference between the LaFontaine and Eichel cases is their ages (and, as you pointed out, the different price tags). The second Pittsburgh knew that Crosby's problem wasn't PCS and was something that could be cured with a shot, he never would have been available. So your whole premise is based on the idea that we should trade for Eichel and hope that we'll learn that his neck doesn't need major surgery, and all he has to do is take a couple Flintstone vitamins to go back to the healthiest version of himself. It's an asinine comparison, but you buy into it because it confirms what YOU want to believe. I'd rather be over here in reality, where players with major spinal necks surgery almost always come out of it with mobility and range of motion issues.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

@smoneil is correct in all he saying, yet the Rangers have never operated by not doing the opposite, your examples prove as much.

Panarin is not getting any younger, Fox, etc are going to cost a ton. Rangers are what they are.

No matter how correct you are, Rangers are reserving just enough cap space to fit Eichel.

And this has proven to be futile and is a problem. It's worked one time in their history with Mark Messier, and even then he was surrounded by the most young talent at that point the organization had ever seen.

If you build a team based around older expensive players, you're always behind.

 

[Blais to Win]

I take it from the bolded that you've never had a serious back/neck injury? My lower back got screwed up playing soccer in 2013. If I so much as bend the wrong way (and what qualifies as "the wrong way" seems to change regularly), I'm on the ground is debilitating pain. From the parade of doctors I've seen (and from doctors I know personally), I can tell you--they don't know a whole lot about how to fix issues with the spine. As I said in an earlier post--I doubt he hangs up his skates, but I equally doubt that he ever looks quite the same in them.

I herniated a disk years ago. Was told surgery was an option but that there was always a chance they could damage the spine in the procedure, so I opted to rehab. Now, like you, there’s that chance that any wrong move could leave me on the ground with jelly for legs until I rest and rehab again. Last time I had this happen it came out of the blue while picking up my daughter to look at the turtles at the zoo. It’s going to happen again.

Naturally, I apply this personal experience when thinking about the Eichel situation.

But even forgetting about all that - Eichel is virtually statistically the same player as Zibanejad. Why throw away all those young players just to get the same player you started with? I’m continuing to hope management doesn’t go that route - today Zibanejad remains one of the best players on our team and I’m sure he will be fully recovered from COVID going forward.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

That’s what I see. Even though in this instance it’s different then adding a player that has more miles on him and is in his late 20s early 30s
Rangers have shesty
A Norris caliber D leading a very good young solid D unit
Panarin and Zibby in their prime and ain’t getting younger
Our stud fwd kids are right at the age where they are going to really start making an impact

and a hole at 2C where they want an upgrade from strome. Besides the neck injury, he’s everything you want that player replacing strome to be. like I said it’s ultimately come down to cost to acquire, but his talent, and his age range fit with them going for a cup in the next 3-5 years time.

My issue is both guys didn't show enough in the bubble or as main dudes.

Both great players but so was the Triple Crown Line in LA. They put up points by the minute but come playoff time, nada.

If they fail with Gallant, it's time to move on from the ones you can.

We've seen it time and again in the NHL. Look at current Toronto. Ottawa and San Jose in the late 90s/early 2000s, Washington in the late 80s-early 90s and again early 2000s. Tampa before they got their version of Matteau and Noonan with Goodrow and Coleman. It takes a certain breed to win in the playoffs when the moment is the biggest.

 

[Bluto]

I feel like im watching TLCs 'Intervention' except they are doing a documentary about hockey addiction. I swear some of you are like hardcore crackheads that cant even enjoy hockey anymore but get bad withdrawals without it.

I think I need to take the rest of the offseason off and start strumming the guitar again when i want to take a gander at HFboards.

I took a sizeable break from HF during the season and found i enjoyed watching the games a lot more.

See you all during the regular season!

 

[smoneil]

I’m not comparing what doctors thought about concussions a quarter century ago to disc replacement surgery now. Your ranting about this has reached Bern like levels. The examples you provided were all older used up players on the down side of their careers. Not a 24 year old superstar center.
And operations done on the back and neck are very very different.
And most insurance companies will cover neck surgeries. Especially when cord compression is an issue. They don’t want to get sued if you get paralyzed in a car crash

I'm not ranting, though I am getting frustrated. I feel like we're going in a circle because you keep ignoring anything that doesn't back the way you WANT to view this. Again, as you apparently missed these details in previous posts:

1- Doctors know less about the spine now than they knew about concussions in 1997. Seriously. Just ask one and they'll tell you (backs and brains are the two major areas where doctors guess the most).

2- LaFontaine was a "older used up player on the down side of his career"? Really? He was scoring at a .93 ppg pace the year his career was ended. Two seasons prior, he put up 91 points in 76 games. He was 32. Not 38. The only thing preventing him from continuing to be an all star level player was the concussion problem. And that would have been the case at age 25 as well.

3- Operations on the spine are dangerous, regardless of how far up or down the spine they are.

 

[jay from jersey]

My issue is both guys didn't show enough in the bubble or as main dudes.

Both great players but so was the Triple Crown Line in LA. They put up points by the minute but come playoff time, nada.

If they fail with Gallant, it's time to move on from the ones you can.

We've seen it time and again in the NHL. Look at current Toronto. Ottawa and San Jose in the late 90s/early 2000s, Washington in the late 80s-early 90s and again early 2000s. Tampa before they got their version of Matteau and Noonan with Goodrow and Coleman. It takes a certain breed to win in the playoffs when the moment is the biggest.

That’s what this offseason was. It was a course correction on that with Goodrow, Hunt, Reaves and Blais and it was drafting all those types of guys with our later rd picks to stick the cupboard with them to add to the Cuylles Berard s, etc Eichel represent the last acquisition of the high end talent to add with panarin/LaF/kakko/Zibby etc basically your top 6 high end guys

 

[Taluss]

Eichels injury is irrelevant. I don’t even know why it’s discussed. Nobody here knows the details of his medical situations. If the rangers trade for him I feel confident they did their due diligence on the situation and feel fine with it. They would have vastly more information at their disposal than the fan base which is permanently doom and gloom about everything

It’s being discussed BECAUSE WE DONT know the medical details. But yet our team is still being asked to pay full price. You answered your own question. His injury is literally one of the most relevant stuff about this situation

As far as I’m aware the Rangers don’t have a time machine and can see how Eichel holds up in a full season post surgery. So their “due diligence” really doesn’t give me confidence atm.[/QUOTE]

 

[smoneil]

@smoneil is correct in all he saying, yet the Rangers have never operated by not doing the opposite, your examples prove as much.

Panarin is not getting any younger, Fox, etc are going to cost a ton. Rangers are what they are.

No matter how correct you are, Rangers are reserving just enough cap space to fit Eichel.

I know. That's what's pissing me off the most, haha. Because of the two lottery wins, this team is built to rely on depth down the wings and on defense. If we spend cap money now on 10 million dollar centers, then we are going to lose several of those wingers and defensemen as cap casualties. All for a center who will almost surely spend significant time on the IR (leaving us with no W/D depth AND no number 1 center). It's right there plain as day, but Dolan, Sather and the minions just can't get over their hard-on for fragile big names. I never thought the team would have the patience for a real re-build, but I am gob-smacked that they actually went through the most painful part of that process and now want to throw it away right before the "compete regularly for years" part of the process.

 

[jay from jersey]

I'm not ranting, though I am getting frustrated. I feel like we're going in a circle because you keep ignoring anything that doesn't back the way you WANT to view this. Again, as you apparently missed these details in previous posts:

1- Doctors know less about the spine now than they knew about concussions in 1997. Seriously. Just ask one and they'll tell you (backs and brains are the two major areas where doctors guess the most).

2- LaFontaine was a "older used up player on the down side of his career"? Really? He was scoring at a .93 ppg pace the year his career was ended. Two seasons prior, he put up 91 points in 76 games. He was 32. Not 38. The only thing preventing him from continuing to be an all star level player was the concussion problem. And that would have been the case at age 25 as well.

3- Operations on the spine are dangerous, regardless of how far up or down the spine they are.

I know I’ve had a major spinal fusion, and I don’t sit behind a desk for a living. They certainly know more about backs and necks and how to repair them now then even when I got my surgery done 9 years ago. So I don’t know what cereal box doctors your talking to. Every case is different. And there are no sure things. That’s why back and neck operations can be tricky. For the most part their probabilities and statistics are accurate.
A LaFontaine with multiple concussions in 97 at 32 years old isn’t really comparable to Eichel needing a disc replacement at 24/25 in 2021
The whole reason they got LaFontaine a PPG player for next to nothing, was they knew he was 1 hit away from being done

 

[will1066]

I feel like im watching TLCs 'Intervention' except they are doing a documentary about hockey addiction. I swear some of you are like hardcore crackheads that cant even enjoy hockey anymore but get bad withdrawals without it.

I think I need to take the rest of the offseason off and start strumming the guitar again when i want to take a gander at HFboards.

I took a sizeable break from HF during the season and found i enjoyed watching the games a lot more.

See you all during the regular season!

Don't leave us. We're just bored, that's all.

 

[smoneil]

I know I’ve had a major spinal fusion, and I don’t sit behind a desk for a living. They certainly know more about backs and necks and how to repair them now then even when I got my surgery done 9 years ago. So I don’t know what cereal box doctors your talking to. Every case is different. And there are no sure things. That’s why back and neck operations can be tricky. For the most part their probabilities and statistics are accurate.
A LaFontaine with multiple concussions in 97 at 32 years old isn’t really comparable to Eichel needing a disc replacement at 24/25 in 2021
The whole reason they got LaFontaine a PPG player for next to nothing, was they knew he was 1 hit away from being done

I'll be sure to tell the folks at Strong Memorial (pretty much the best hospital in the state that I was only able to go to because I worked at that time for the university that owns it) that you view them as "cereal box doctors."

And they got LaFontaine for next to nothing because Buffalo didn't want to pay him, and LaFontaine's agent called them out and effectively threatened to sue. He was cleared by multiple neurologists AND wasn't required to have an insurance rider for concussion exceptions. He was still a player with a serious injury history. A calculated risk. A gamble. The Rangers gambled and they lost. In that case, it only cost them a 2nd rounder and some money. In the Bure gamble, it cost them a 1st rounder +. Eichel is just as big of an injury risk at a much higher cost (with the cap damage being more disastrous than the trade package in my view). It's just not worth it.

 

[egelband]

Dude we get it. You don’t like Eichel. For whatever reasons, but your only looking at it negatively. He’s younger then all of the examples you provided. The probability that he likely returns to normal is actually higher then his career being over.
Zibbys and Eichel’s games played for their first 5-6 seasons are pretty comparable. But Eichel has better numbers
Like I said, I’m more worried about Zibby getting another concussion at his age/next contract then Eichel injuring his neck again from 25-30

but more then likely they are going to be our top 2 centers for the next 5 years

Yeah. I wish we just ignore the injury part for now. None of us bring anything useful to that discussion. Even a neck specialist wouldn’t be of any help never having seen Eichel or his medical report.

 

[Tob]

Timeline wise, I think this was the same year Smith came in 20 pounds overweight from his weddings.

 

[egelband]

I feel like im watching TLCs 'Intervention' except they are doing a documentary about hockey addiction. I swear some of you are like hardcore crackheads that cant even enjoy hockey anymore but get bad withdrawals without it.

I think I need to take the rest of the offseason off and start strumming the guitar again when i want to take a gander at HFboards.

I took a sizeable break from HF during the season and found i enjoyed watching the games a lot more.

See you all during the regular season!

I need a feature on this forum that excludes posts where one guy is trying to change another guy’s opinion. I’d set the latency to allow one “factual” appeal.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

I wasn't aware that we traded for Eichel. Some of you guys are making it seem like it already happened or is guaranteed to happen. Nobody knows shit.

 

[egelband]

Timeline wise, I think this was the same year Smith came in 20 pounds overweight from his weddings.

I must say, not being a Zadorov fan, I really appreciate his circumspection here. Sounds like a smart man. I still hate spot-pickers. Especially when they’re big enough to play straight-up. But I like him a little more now. As for McKinnon, we could use a guy like that. Too many groovy dudes on our team. Glad they’re addressing it now.

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

I am ready for Eichel to be traded to another team so we can all put our stethoscopes and scrubs away.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I am ready for Eichel to be traded to another team so we can all put our stethoscopes and scrubs away.

Im ready for it for a lot of reasons.

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

Im ready for it for a lot of reasons.

Seriously bro.

 

[mike14]

Timeline wise, I think this was the same year Smith came in 20 pounds overweight from his weddings.

No ice-cream for 8 months of the year and no cups? Screw playing for Colorado...

 

[TheDirtyH]

The other thing that keeps coming up this summer is the assured expertise of front office insiders and the Borgesian library of data they make decisions from.

Meanwhile Chris Drury runs the most valuable NHL franchise and when he's hired people point to the Little League World Series he won as a qualification...

 

[KevinFinnerty]

No fettuccine Alfredo for Mackinnon? Fuhgedaboutit!