Ron Francis

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When did I say that let's pass a sentence mid-way through the trial. Or that the expansion draft was the sole measuring stick for Francis. I have said it from the beginning that I do not expect us to make the playoffs till year 2-3 or though I did expect us to be a competitive (bubble) team in our first season.

I am NOT attached to Francis or Hakstol and while I am more warm to the idea of moving Hakstol next season, there is no way Francis should be fired this soon.
I don't think you did, I just think you said we need to see what the team looks like going into the season and how the team performs during the season.

How was it performed?

I hear you on letting RF's plan play out. I would LOVE to come back in 3 years and eat my words. Sadly, I think I'll be proven right.
 
I don't think you did, I just think you said we need to see what the team looks like going into the season and how the team performs during the season.

How was it performed?

I hear you on letting RF's plan play out. I would LOVE to come back in 3 years and eat my words. Sadly, I think I'll be proven right.

At the end of the day pretty much everyone posting here who is a Kraken fan cares about the franchise. Why else would we hang around while the team is a bottom-3 team in the league? We all want the team to be successful.

I would have liked to have a great start like Vegas though I knew that was unlikely. We underperformed (in my mind) and I lay most of the blame for that on Hakstol (and by association Francis) but COVID did not do us many favors either. On the other side, looking at Vegas this season definitely should raise red flags for people given that they are in the playoff bubble, severely over the cap and no real blue-chippers on their roster.

I don't know how the team will look like in 2023-24. Will we see Beniers and our 1st round pick in 2022 all on the roster in 2023-24 as effective players? If yes, Francis has done his job to help the franchise go in the right direction. With other promising prospects like Winterton and Evans who may be part of the roster in 2023 and beyond, this team is being built the right way with home-grown talent.

Staying pat this TDL (or making only 1 move) is a red flag for me unless I see nothing league wide. I expect things picking up in a day or two but if Francis is not part of the action or makes another set of excuses like not enough value or market for players WHILE other GMs are actively making moves, I will be bothered for sure. What he does in the coming FA period is another area of interest to me. Short term deals (2-3 years) are good for us, but if he brings on complimentary players on deals of 5+ years, again, not going to be happy unless they are on the younger side of things.

Just because I am not screaming for Francis' head does not mean i am not unhappy with the state of the team or some of the choices he made. But to me, the great draft (and hopefully more drafts) is what we need to set us up for the future. And this is an area where I have been thrilled with Francis. Unfortunately, it also means we are atleast another 2 seasons till our draft picks become impactful players (hopefully). Though, this is where the FA market, trades and using our cap space could help fill in the roster gaps till then.

Right now, it is way too early for me say Francis has been a disaster for us.
 
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Beniers was a super easy pick though. Anybody who follows hockey could pull that off. 2022 1st rounder being in the league 2 years later also isn't super impressive.....

I'm guessing you'll be sorely disappointed by his TDL moves but we will find out over the next week or so.

I don't mind the Kraken being terrible. I mind that we were terrible in bizarre ways. A bunch of expensive FA signings while leaving a ton on the table in the expansion draft is still inexplicable to me if the plan was to tank. If the plan wasn't to tank then why not go big in the expansion draft?

Anywho, we have both made our stances clear. I hope that I am the one who is wrong!!
 
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Ron Francis is a terrible General Manager with a poor track record. I don't see him getting anything for the Kraken at the trade deadline. The best deal the Kraken could make is move on from Ron Francis and there coach admit they made a mistake and go out and get a real smart General Manage. They are in this position because of Ron Francis expansion picks in the first place.
 
Ron Francis is a terrible General Manager with a poor track record. I don't see him getting anything for the Kraken at the trade deadline. The best deal the Kraken could make is move on from Ron Francis and there coach admit they made a mistake and go out and get a real smart General Manage. They are in this position because of Ron Francis expansion picks in the first place.
He's already made a really good trade. A couple more and he's done well this TDL.
 
Ron Francis is a terrible General Manager with a poor track record. I don't see him getting anything for the Kraken at the trade deadline. The best deal the Kraken could make is move on from Ron Francis and there coach admit they made a mistake and go out and get a real smart General Manage. They are in this position because of Ron Francis expansion picks in the first place.

so you rather be in cap hell with no big prospects cause you had to give them up just so they can get people to take bad contracts?
 
Ron Francis is a terrible General Manager with a poor track record. I don't see him getting anything for the Kraken at the trade deadline. The best deal the Kraken could make is move on from Ron Francis and there coach admit they made a mistake and go out and get a real smart General Manage. They are in this position because of Ron Francis expansion picks in the first place.
I apologize if I am mixing you up with another poster, but if i remember correctly, you are a blackhawks fan, and if that is the case, the only reason I could possibly fathom for you to come in here to bash Ron Francis is because you are still super pissed about the Hawks being swept in the 92 finals and Francis' role in shutting down Roenick and company.

If that is the case brother, you just gotta let it go. It's past time. Move on.

As far as the job Francis has done - yes, our expansion team sucks.

Just like every expansion team that wasn't gifted a top line and top pairing D by less than smart GMs via trades.

Most of us still can't believe Francis wasn't able to take on a LTIR cap dump and get a young free 43 goal scorer in return like Vegas did.

We are also angry that he wasn't able to procure 2 young 25 goal scorers for basically nothing like Vegas did.

And the fact that he couldn't find anyone to give up two young top pairing D like Vegas did is a HUGE sore spot.

It is true, we are all super sad in here that Francis didn't spend to the cap with bad expansion contracts so we could be 15 points instead of 25 points out of a playoff spot with no cap flexibility.

We are all also super disappointed we will likely be picking in the top 5 again instead of 13th or 14th.

We especially hate that the draft picks from last years draft are all trending really well with some of them looking like steals.

And the anger in here from the return on the first trade yesterday has us all absolutely fuming!

Oh..... and don't even get us started on Francis signing our leading scorer (likely 30 goal guy), who has some of the best metrics in the league to a super solid long term contract - that totally sucked.

The entire scenario is so bad... it's like when you go to a bar on a hot day and the beer is too cold.
 
Ron Francis is a terrible General Manager with a poor track record. I don't see him getting anything for the Kraken at the trade deadline. The best deal the Kraken could make is move on from Ron Francis and there coach admit they made a mistake and go out and get a real smart General Manage. They are in this position because of Ron Francis expansion picks in the first place.
Let's not condemn Francis for doing poorly at the trade deadline....until, at the very least, the trade deadline actually occurs.
 
so you rather be in cap hell with no big prospects cause you had to give them up just so they can get people to take bad contracts?
What cap hell? There's no way the team could have entered into cap hell through the expansion draft since Tarasenko only had 2 years left on his contract and Domi had one. Actual money would have been offset by keeping Vanacek and not signing Grubby. It is inconsistent logic to be conservative in the ED and aggressive in FA. Obvious at this point that Tarasenko would have been a better gamble than Grubby.

So far he's done well drafting and trading so let's hope Francis can dig himself out of this hole, but I would not defend his ED choices, they sucked. Seems like there's a handful of people here still willing to die on that hill when the results have been obvious to even causal hockey fans.
 
What cap hell? There's no way the team could have entered into cap hell through the expansion draft since Tarasenko only had 2 years left on his contract and Domi had one. Actual money would have been offset by keeping Vanacek and not signing Grubby. It is inconsistent logic to be conservative in the ED and aggressive in FA. Obvious at this point that Tarasenko would have been a better gamble than Grubby.

So far he's done well drafting and trading so let's hope Francis can dig himself out of this hole, but I would not defend his ED choices, they sucked. Seems like there's a handful of people here still willing to die on that hill when the results have been obvious to even causal hockey fans.
It isn't that we are willing to die on any hill, it is that we keep reiterating the same premise but for some reason the words we type are apparently difficult to understand.

This team with JVR/Voracek/Tarasenko/Duchene/Gostisbehere is still not a playoff team. They'd just be hard up against the cap, but would still not be good enough to make the postseason.

Hindsight is 20/20 on injuries like Tarasenko's, but we would still take Dunn, because there is NO way tarasenko has even half the season he is having away from that stacked Blues roster and playing for the Kraken.

Now also take into account that those contracts all required assets to dump last offseason. So we keep saying that there was no sense in taking on all that salary.

That is the issue. Given those alternatives, yeah, a lot of people here are fine with the Expansion draft, because there was no route that produced a contender.

So we will take the higher draft picks and watch them grow as a team and build slow the way most successful teams do it.

You can disagree with the likelyhood of all this, but you can't say that we liked the expansion draft because we thought Francis took the best players. We have never said that. We just believe that given the circumstances, the choices were actually somewhat smart and not the end of the world like some make them out to be
 
I apologize if I am mixing you up with another poster, but if i remember correctly, you are a blackhawks fan, and if that is the case, the only reason I could possibly fathom for you to come in here to bash Ron Francis is because you are still super pissed about the Hawks being swept in the 92 finals and Francis' role in shutting down Roenick and company.

If that is the case brother, you just gotta let it go. It's past time. Move on.

As far as the job Francis has done - yes, our expansion team sucks.

Just like every expansion team that wasn't gifted a top line and top pairing D by less than smart GMs via trades.

Most of us still can't believe Francis wasn't able to take on a LTIR cap dump and get a young free 43 goal scorer in return like Vegas did.

We are also angry that he wasn't able to procure 2 young 25 goal scorers for basically nothing like Vegas did.

And the fact that he couldn't find anyone to give up two young top pairing D like Vegas did is a HUGE sore spot.

It is true, we are all super sad in here that Francis didn't spend to the cap with bad expansion contracts so we could be 15 points instead of 25 points out of a playoff spot with no cap flexibility.

We are all also super disappointed we will likely be picking in the top 5 again instead of 13th or 14th.

We especially hate that the draft picks from last years draft are all trending really well with some of them looking like steals.

And the anger in here from the return on the first trade yesterday has us all absolutely fuming!

Oh..... and don't even get us started on Francis signing our leading scorer (likely 30 goal guy), who has some of the best metrics in the league to a super solid long term contract - that totally sucked.

The entire scenario is so bad... it's like when you go to a bar on a hot day and the beer is too cold.
You have me mixed up I am not the blackhawks poster
 
Maybe we need to make a thread called 'Shit on Ron Francis' or 'You suck Francis'. It can be the /dev/null thread of our board.

Sorry, linux joke. Could not resist .. LOL.

I already got the thread picture for it.
giphy.gif
 
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It isn't that we are willing to die on any hill, it is that we keep reiterating the same premise but for some reason the words we type are apparently difficult to understand.

This team with JVR/Voracek/Tarasenko/Duchene/Gostisbehere is still not a playoff team. They'd just be hard up against the cap, but would still not be good enough to make the postseason.

Hindsight is 20/20 on injuries like Tarasenko's, but we would still take Dunn, because there is NO way tarasenko has even half the season he is having away from that stacked Blues roster and playing for the Kraken.

Now also take into account that those contracts all required assets to dump last offseason. So we keep saying that there was no sense in taking on all that salary.

That is the issue. Given those alternatives, yeah, a lot of people here are fine with the Expansion draft, because there was no route that produced a contender.

So we will take the higher draft picks and watch them grow as a team and build slow the way most successful teams do it.

You can disagree with the likelyhood of all this, but you can't say that we liked the expansion draft because we thought Francis took the best players. We have never said that. We just believe that given the circumstances, the choices were actually somewhat smart and not the end of the world like some make them out to be
That's the funny part, you guys are so stubborn you keep repeating the same argument even after this season played out. Don't let facts or reality get in the way of a good argument.

I wouldn't have taken Ghost, and Francis didn't take any players that have played for Hakstol before so JVR wouldn't have been in the picture. But all of those guys also have trade value at the end of their contracts. And you forgot Domi. When building an expansion team, it's all about collecting then trading assets. He did well with Jarnkrok, and hopefully with Gio. But lots of missed opportunities, plus a big UFA fail with Grubby. (I did not expect him to suck though)

I said his ED sucked from day 1 and I will stick to that. At least my picks would have made the team watchable. This team has at least one more tank season before we see an upswing. Good UFAs don't typically sign with dumpster fire teams, so I don't expect much this offseason. We need the draft picks to pan out really bad....
 
That's the funny part, you guys are so stubborn you keep repeating the same argument even after this season played out. Don't let facts or reality get in the way of a good argument.

I wouldn't have taken Ghost, and Francis didn't take any players that have played for Hakstol before so JVR wouldn't have been in the picture. But all of those guys also have trade value at the end of their contracts. And you forgot Domi. When building an expansion team, it's all about collecting then trading assets. He did well with Jarnkrok, and hopefully with Gio. But lots of missed opportunities, plus a big UFA fail with Grubby. (I did not expect him to suck though)

I said his ED sucked from day 1 and I will stick to that. At least my picks would have made the team watchable. This team has at least one more tank season before we see an upswing. Good UFAs don't typically sign with dumpster fire teams, so I don't expect much this offseason. We need the draft picks to pan out really bad....
I do not know what these "facts or reality" are that you are referring to.

Everything is pure speculation.

You think Tarasenko would be be putting up great numbers in Seattle? There is no fact there. It is speculation. I speculate, and have a lot of sound logic to support my premise that he would not.

I said as soon as the expansion lists were released that there was no chance this team makes the playoffs. Things are going pretty much exactly as I predicted, so I don't know what you are talking about when you say "you guys are so stubborn you keep repeating the same argument even after this season played out"

The team is slightly worse than I originally predicted, but it is obvious that the problem has been coaching all season, so I don't think the discrepancies are expansion draft or personnel issues.

You are hung up on Domi, but the facts are that Columbus' training staff reported him out till at least January, and possibly longer.

We can pretend on this board that the NHL league is a fantasy league and make our fake trade proposals, but the reality is that it is a business. The ownership group put up nearly 2 billion dollars to bring the team here. Francis was given a fairly open budget, but he is still expected to spend money wisely.

Spending 6 million on a guy that might miss the year would cut heavily into what Francis can spend, and would likely be viewed as bad form by the ownership group. This is something that I don't think you seem to comprehend.

No owner wants his GM throwing away 6 million. They want a prudent decision maker monitoring the expenses, not a GM spending like a drunken sailor.

I think you have forgotten that there is a real world business aspect behind these decisions. Francis Targeted character guys in free agency to build a culture within the team. Did he overpay on some of those contracts? absolutely. But he got serviceable players while prioritized having a solid work ethic in the dressing room for the young guys to learn from.
 
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I do not know what these "facts or reality" are that you are referring to.

Everything is pure speculation.

You think Tarasenko would be be putting up great numbers in Seattle? There is no fact there. It is speculation. I speculate, and have a lot of sound logic to support my premise that he would not.

I said as soon as the expansion lists were released that there was no chance this team makes the playoffs. Things are going pretty much exactly as I predicted, so I don't know what you are talking about when you say "you guys are so stubborn you keep repeating the same argument even after this season played out"

The team is slightly worse than I originally predicted, but it is obvious that the problem has been coaching all season, so I don't think the discrepancies are expansion draft or personnel issues.

You are hung up on Domi, but the facts are that Columbus' training staff reported him out till at least January, and possibly longer.

We can pretend on this board that the NHL league is a fantasy league and make our fake trade proposals, but the reality is that it is a business. The ownership group put up nearly 2 billion dollars to bring the team here. Francis was given a fairly open budget, but he is still expected to spend money wisely.

Spending 6 million on a guy that might miss the year would cut heavily into what Francis can spend, and would likely be viewed as bad form by the ownership group. This is something that I don't think you seem to comprehend.

No owner wants his GM throwing away 6 million. They want a prudent decision maker monitoring the expenses, not a GM spending like a drunken sailor.

I think you have forgotten that there is a real world business aspect behind these decisions. Francis Targeted character guys in free agency to build a culture within the team. Did he overpay on some of those contracts? absolutely. But he got serviceable players while prioritized having a solid work ethic in the dressing room for the young guys to learn from.
Yeah nice culture if you like losing, lol.

Tank might not put up the same numbers, but he's still more talented offensively than anyone on the team. That's how you make a team better is by having more talent. Pretty simple concept you seem to be completely ignoring just because he might not have the same stats.

Domi's contract would have been covered 80% by insurance, meanwhile Francis dropped $35 mil on Grubby. Either way, if you're worried about spending money, you don't buy a sports team. Up until the salary cap, most hockey teams lost money. Spending $2B and then trying to save a couple million is idiotic if you think about it, that's like building a house and not paying for shingles. You either go all out or you stay out. Pinching pennies at the wrong time is how you lose money in a business.

Also, why was Francis blowing money in FA if teh owners were concerned about pinching pennies? Seems like that's not what they were doing at all anyways.

I said it before, Francis has a captured audience the first season, but he won't last unless his draft picks are all homeruns because this team is unwatchable.

And yeah, I hated the coaching selection too, and that's also on Francis..
 
Yeah nice culture if you like losing, lol.

Tank might not put up the same numbers, but he's still more talented offensively than anyone on the team. That's how you make a team better is by having more talent. Pretty simple concept you seem to be completely ignoring just because he might not have the same stats.

Domi's contract would have been covered 80% by insurance, meanwhile Francis dropped $35 mil on Grubby. Either way, if you're worried about spending money, you don't buy a sports team. Up until the salary cap, most hockey teams lost money. Spending $2B and then trying to save a couple million is idiotic if you think about it, that's like building a house and not paying for shingles. You either go all out or you stay out. Pinching pennies at the wrong time is how you lose money in a business.

Also, why was Francis blowing money in FA if teh owners were concerned about pinching pennies? Seems like that's not what they were doing at all anyways.

I said it before, Francis has a captured audience the first season, but he won't last unless his draft picks are all homeruns because this team is unwatchable.

And yeah, I hated the coaching selection too, and that's also on Francis..
This team was going to lose a fair amount regardless, they are a friggin expansion team.

The culture targeted was to bring in guys that put in extra work, First to the rink, last to leave type of guys. Guys that spent extra-time in the weightroom on layoffs. They were never going to bring in guys like Voracek that have big reputations for over indulging in city nightlife.

Next, smart spending does not = pinching pennies. Investing in character vets to lead the way for building an expansion team is different than not throwing money at players that are at a high risk of not playing. Yet you keep referring to the concept as penny pinching. If you can not understand how the two are very different, then you will never understand our position here on the board, (or the motivation for this organization).

The team knew they were taking Gourde who was going to be out for a while to start the season. There was no way they were going to select another 14 million in contracts for the injury questionable guys you wanted them to take. That is safe investing, not penny pinching.

Lastly, we have covered this before, but maybe you missed it. Insurance would not have covered 80 percent of Domi's contract. First of all, there are the premiums that have to be paid. Second, Domi would have to miss 30% of the season before insurance would kick in. The amount of the contract that would be reimbursed *could* be up to 80% for the eligible time once it kicks in. And since we don't know the details of the policy, it could be quite a bit lower than the 80% maximum. and if he missed what he was expected to, Insurance would not have covered hardly any of it, but he would not have been available to play.

Many of us have repeatedly expressed these opinions in responses to you in this thread when you continue to come in here to cater to the trolls and misrepresenting our positions, while pretending everything is fact despite all positions in this argument being strictly speculation. It is a douchey practice. Don't misrepresent other. No one appreciates it.

You want to argue that the team would be better with Tarasenko than Dunn, that is you opinion and you are welcome to argue it. Many of us disagree, but we can agree to disagree. You want to argue the team would be better with the defensively challenged Domi cherry picking every shift? His stats are not overwhelming, and while Seattle may have put up more goals with him in the lineup, I tend to think that they would be giving up more than the amount they gained, so we can once again agree to disagree.
 
This team was going to lose a fair amount regardless, they are a friggin expansion team.

The culture targeted was to bring in guys that put in extra work, First to the rink, last to leave type of guys. Guys that spent extra-time in the weightroom on layoffs. They were never going to bring in guys like Voracek that have big reputations for over indulging in city nightlife.

Next, smart spending does not = pinching pennies. Investing in character vets to lead the way for building an expansion team is different than not throwing money at players that are at a high risk of not playing. Yet you keep referring to the concept as penny pinching. If you can not understand how the two are very different, then you will never understand our position here on the board, (or the motivation for this organization).

The team knew they were taking Gourde who was going to be out for a while to start the season. There was no way they were going to select another 14 million in contracts for the injury questionable guys you wanted them to take. That is safe investing, not penny pinching.

Lastly, we have covered this before, but maybe you missed it. Insurance would not have covered 80 percent of Domi's contract. First of all, there are the premiums that have to be paid. Second, Domi would have to miss 30% of the season before insurance would kick in. The amount of the contract that would be reimbursed *could* be up to 80% for the eligible time once it kicks in. And since we don't know the details of the policy, it could be quite a bit lower than the 80% maximum. and if he missed what he was expected to, Insurance would not have covered hardly any of it, but he would not have been available to play.

Many of us have repeatedly expressed these opinions in responses to you in this thread when you continue to come in here to cater to the trolls and misrepresenting our positions, while pretending everything is fact despite all positions in this argument being strictly speculation. It is a douchey practice. Don't misrepresent other. No one appreciates it.

You want to argue that the team would be better with Tarasenko than Dunn, that is you opinion and you are welcome to argue it. Many of us disagree, but we can agree to disagree. You want to argue the team would be better with the defensively challenged Domi cherry picking every shift? His stats are not overwhelming, and while Seattle may have put up more goals with him in the lineup, I tend to think that they would be giving up more than the amount they gained, so we can once again agree to disagree.
Whatever, meanwhile nobody on the team can score, lol.

If a bottom 3 team is good expansion draft choices, then you believe whatever you want. I'm watching this game because of the Wings, teh Kraken are their usual train wreck, can;t score to save their life.
 
Whatever, meanwhile nobody on the team can score, lol.

If a bottom 3 team is good expansion draft choices, then you believe whatever you want. I'm watching this game because of the Wings, teh Kraken are their usual train wreck, can;t score to save their life.
They're an expansion team. Bottom 3 finishes for expansion teams is totally normal.

If you look past the losing, Hakstol's open game plan is actually somewhat entertaining some nights :laugh:

Personally I think this team would be sitting in around 20-22nd league wide if they had competent coaching, but that is another debate.

I think you should be more concerned about this "Bottom 3 team" in their first season absolutely dominating Detroit's roster that Yzerman has been building for years now. If you are watching the game, there is no way you can be happy about Detroit's performance.
 
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Hey, Somebody got more than a goal in a game and we beat *gasp* the Wings! Wish it was 1998. Still fun to win when it doesn’t change the lottery odds.
 

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