Ron Francis

[Gniwder]

Hire scouts and prioritize development and the odds increase. And $4 million for a 2nd is pretty decent. Plus if Ritchie has a decent 22-23 he can be flipped for another pick at the deadline if the Kraken don't mind retaining a bit.

Obviously none of the other teams thought it was a good deal, and Arizona is on a full tank mission. I just don't understand how they're gonna make any money in a 5000 seat arena while taking on big cap dumps. Also, Ritchie isn't gonna have a bounce back year playing for a cellar team, whether it be Arizona or Seattle. He doesn't have the skills to generate his own offense. I think Toronto got the better end of that deal with 2 contracts they can bury if they need cap space.

BTW, the Kraken did well in the last draft, I think their scouts are doing just fine. But statistically, late 2nd rounders have a low probability of making the league.

 

[Irie]

I said all of the above the day of the expansion draft and you know I did, as did others who criticized the ED. It's not hindsight drafting at all.

I believe Domi would have behaved simply because he's on a contract year. He also gets along with his teammates, his problem is that he butts heads with his coaches. I would've picked him strictly as a trade piece, so the timeline doesn't matter, but I don't think CBJ lied. He came back from his shoulder surgery really quickly.

I also expected Francis to draft extra defensemen like Bean, then trade for prospects or picks. If the plan was to build through the draft then he should have gotten as many trade chips are possible. The ED was terrible, look at any mock ED and Francis did worse.

One, the day of the expansion draft is not really "hindsight". No one will have full hindsight until all the players draft and undrafted in the expansion draft are either traded, re-signed, or move on, and even then, the hindsight isn't 20/20 because the circumstances are completely different.

Point is, you can't say the decision was wrong the moment it was made without knowing how things turn out.

Two, I have no idea what you said during the expansion draft. Hell, I can't even remember what your old moniker was, only that you changed it and then bailed on the board when the team wasn't great a couple of games in.

Three, you claim that you would do this or that, so I did a quick search, and the only post by you that I found on the players you are now saying Francis should have taken, was a post of you saying you would never take Domi.

So you are coming in here with your own revisionist history to bash the team.

When we chatted before you left, I remember you seemed knowledgeable, so I was disappointed when you came and proclaimed you were done with them because they were terrible.

If you want to have honest and productive discussions, I'd welcome your take on things moving forward, but coming in once a month to bash moves made 7 months ago is not productive, and calling everyone Francis sympathizers if they disagree with you is not going to go over well if you want to be part of the community.

 

[Gniwder]

One, the day of the expansion draft is not really "hindsight". No one will have full hindsight until all the players draft and undrafted in the expansion draft are either traded, re-signed, or move on, and even then, the hindsight isn't 20/20 because the circumstances are completely different.

Point is, you can't say the decision was wrong the moment it was made without knowing how things turn out.

Two, I have no idea what you said during the expansion draft. Hell, I can't even remember what your old moniker was, only that you changed it and then bailed on the board when the team wasn't great a couple of games in.

Three, you claim that you would do this or that, so I did a quick search, and the only post by you that I found on the players you are now saying Francis should have taken, was a post of you saying you would never take Domi.

So you are coming in here with your own revisionist history to bash the team.

View attachment 509140

When we chatted before you left, I remember you seemed knowledgeable, so I was disappointed when you came and proclaimed you were done with them because they were terrible.

If you want to have honest and productive discussions, I'd welcome your take on things moving forward, but coming in once a month to bash moves made 7 months ago is not productive, and calling everyone Francis sympathizers if they disagree with you is not going to go over well if you want to be part of the community.

That was well before they decided to leave Domi unprotected, like almost a year before, lol. Look at the date of the post FFS, talk about cherry picking. When they left Domi unprotected, that was the obvious choice. There's no revisionist argument at all, obviously the ED choices are made after the unprotected list comes out. Hilarious that you're trying to use some shi* talking to a CBJ fan as an argument against me. Pretty pathetic.

I can disagree with decisions when they are made, and hindsight has proven that I was right. This team sucks.

Also, I bailed out after about 2 dozen games, the team is just horrible. The thing was I expected low event hockey, but the team was getting blown out because they kept allowing too many odd man rushes. Some of it was because of the ED choices, but I was pretty frustrated with the coaching as well.

I'll be back though, I really liked the draft picks, and 2 or 3 more good drafts like that and the team will be on solid foundation. There's just not enough reason to watch until Beniers starts playing. I've already watched 2 teams go full tank (Caps & Wings), I really don't need to watch a third. The product on the ice is horrible and you can't possibly disagree with that.

 

[Irie]

Look it folks, the team is bad because the players are bad. If the players were good teams would be calling and making deals for them but they haven't moved a soul yet. One month until the trade deadline and it will be interesting to see if any players get moved. Schwartz might have been good but he got hurt in 15-16 and has never really been the same since. The points he put up after that were due to the fact that he was playing on a good team. The scouts should have known this. Same thing with Grubs, the guy never played more than 40 games in a NHL season and somehow Francis gives him 6 million a year for 6 years. There is a reason Sakic didn't feel the need to spend money retaining him. I could go on and on about the free agent signings like Larsson, Oleksiak, but I'll move on to the draft picks that the the team hasn't even picked yet. All I'll say is look at Edmonton and ask your selves when was the last time they were any good? As for Beniers, he might just stay in college and avoid playing for the Kracken. This team is about as poorly constructed as I have ever seen and I been through quite a few expansions. The only one worse might have been the California Golden Seals but they had 5 other teams competing with them. Francis had every opportunity to get it right but this a hole that will take a decade or more to dig out of.

Not sure how you can say with a straight face that this kraken team is constructed worse than the expansion Sharks, Senators, Lightning, Wild, Blue Jackets or Thrashers upon their inception.

You can make the case that some of those teams were better than Seattle on the ice due to coaching, but you can't make the case they were better on paper.

Comparing rosters, I think you will find that all those teams listed above were pretty damn ugly coming out of the expansion draft.

It is what happens when every team in the league can protect what is essentially their top 8 or 9 forwards and their top 4 or 5 D (protection list plus draft ineligible rules).

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

That was well before they decided to leave Domi unprotected, like almost a year before, lol. Look at the date of the post FFS, talk about cherry picking. When they left Domi unprotected, that was the obvious choice. There's no revisionist argument at all, obviously the ED choices are made after the unprotected list comes out. Hilarious that you're trying to use some shi* talking to a CBJ fan as an argument against me. Pretty pathetic.

I can disagree with decisions when they are made, and hindsight has proven that I was right. This team sucks.

Also, I bailed out after about 2 dozen games, the team is just horrible. The thing was I expected low event hockey, but the team was getting blown out because they kept allowing too many odd man rushes. Some of it was because of the ED choices, but I was pretty frustrated with the coaching as well.

I'll be back though, I really liked the draft picks, and 2 or 3 more good drafts like that and the team will be on solid foundation. There's just not enough reason to watch until Beniers starts playing. I've already watched 2 teams go full tank (Caps & Wings), I really don't need to watch a third.

Wow. So you gave a whole 2 weeks for a brand new team that was put together, to start playing competitive hockey? Seems fair ..

At the tend of the day, it seems like you are only interested in rooting for teams that are 'good'. Fair, since it is your time. But coming back time and again to crap on Francis for the exact same reasons is pointless. Expansion draft is done. Also, it is very easy to say 'I was right' when you are talking about an event in the past.

It is impossible for you to predict that the team would have been in a better position if they would have made expansion draft choices aligned with yours. The success of players who were not picked this season does not carry over if they were playing on the Kraken.

Oh and another thing. If you had been patient enough you would be able to witness low level hockey and us being a better defensive unit. The team has cleaned up a lot over the last month or so and has been doing exactly that.

 

[Gniwder]

Wow. So you gave a whole 2 weeks for a brand new team that was put together, to start playing competitive hockey? Seems fair ..

At the tend of the day, it seems like you are only interested in rooting for teams that are 'good'. Fair, since it is your time. But coming back time and again to crap on Francis for the exact same reasons is pointless. Expansion draft is done. Also, it is very easy to say 'I was right' when you are talking about an event in the past.

It is impossible for you to predict that the team would have been in a better position if they would have made expansion draft choices aligned with yours. The success of players who were not picked this season does not carry over if they were playing on the Kraken.

Oh and another thing. If you had been patient enough you would be able to witness low level hockey and us being a better defensive unit. The team has cleaned up a lot over the last month or so and has been doing exactly that.

Dude, you don't know me, I still watch the Wings and they are still not a good team. Also, 2 dozen games is more than 2 weeks.

As for Francis, I just came back to see how long it takes before people realize he screwed up the ED. Apparently not long enough, lol. I mean I said it right after the draft, time has proven me right, and now all of you guys keep saying I'm using hindsight. The issue with Tarasenko was his shoulder, and it's fine now. Sure he might put up less points with the Kraken, but the team isn't gonna somehow rob him of his skills. Bean would've fetched a 2nd if the team decided not to keep him, and Domi will get a pick as well.

If I wanted to do hindsight drafting, I would've said pick Namestnikov over Cholowski, but I definitely didn't see him turning it around this season. I did say that Cholo is worthless though, but he'll be good for the new AHL team.

The reason why I'm not vesting any time to watch the team is because I expect a full roster turnover before the team starts competing for the playoffs. Like I said before, I've watched 2 rebuilds, there's no point in watching a rebuilding (or in this case a building) team until they have core players to build around. Beniers is obviously one of those, so when he starts playing then I'll watch.

Francis chose to put a bad product on the ice, I'm not gonna reward him or the ownership for putting crap on the ice. I've watched enough Detroit Lions games to know that you shouldn't follow a team just because they're in your city, lol.

 

[Gniwder]

Wow. So you gave a whole 2 weeks for a brand new team that was put together, to start playing competitive hockey? Seems fair ..

At the tend of the day, it seems like you are only interested in rooting for teams that are 'good'. Fair, since it is your time. But coming back time and again to crap on Francis for the exact same reasons is pointless. Expansion draft is done. Also, it is very easy to say 'I was right' when you are talking about an event in the past.

It is impossible for you to predict that the team would have been in a better position if they would have made expansion draft choices aligned with yours. The success of players who were not picked this season does not carry over if they were playing on the Kraken.

Oh and another thing. If you had been patient enough you would be able to witness low level hockey and us being a better defensive unit. The team has cleaned up a lot over the last month or so and has been doing exactly that.

BTW, I find it really funny how you guys are still defending the ED.

It's like the Boston fans who think Marchand didn't deserve a suspension. Quoting a guy on the main board, the mental gymnastics here is amazing.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

BTW, I find it really funny how you guys are still defending the ED.

It's like the Boston fans who think Marchand didn't deserve a suspension. Quoting a guy on the main board, the mental gymnastics here is amazing.

Thats great that you can find humor in life. I am happy for you.

 

[Mike Jones]

BTW, the Kraken did well in the last draft, I think their scouts are doing just fine. But statistically, late 2nd rounders have a low probability of making the league.

Francis could have given them more to work with but seemed to blow a tire when it counted. And judging by Arizona's move yesterday history may repeat itself this time around.

 

[Irie]

That was well before they decided to leave Domi unprotected, like almost a year before, lol. Look at the date of the post FFS, talk about cherry picking. When they left Domi unprotected, that was the obvious choice. There's no revisionist argument at all, obviously the ED choices are made after the unprotected list comes out. Hilarious that you're trying to use some shi* talking to a CBJ fan as an argument against me. Pretty pathetic.

I can disagree with decisions when they are made, and hindsight has proven that I was right. This team sucks.

Also, I bailed out after about 2 dozen games, the team is just horrible. The thing was I expected low event hockey, but the team was getting blown out because they kept allowing too many odd man rushes. Some of it was because of the ED choices, but I was pretty frustrated with the coaching as well.

I'll be back though, I really liked the draft picks, and 2 or 3 more good drafts like that and the team will be on solid foundation. There's just not enough reason to watch until Beniers starts playing. I've already watched 2 teams go full tank (Caps & Wings), I really don't need to watch a third. The product on the ice is horrible and you can't possibly disagree with that.

My apologies then if that was your position. But that was the only Domi post the search engine returned by you before the draft, so i really was not trying to "cherry pick".

The product on the ice is more a bi-product of coaching in my opinion.

Hakstol has been absolutely terrible. And yes, I realize that is on Francis too, and have made no apologies for that hire.

He has had average results with talented teams, but he is coaching an expansion team the same way he coached the flyers and his IIHF rosters, thinking his squad can skate with the opposition, which is just flat out stupid.

Like you said we were all expecting low event hockey with a lot of defensive responsibility. What we are getting is a product that has no chance if succeeding, regardless of who was taken in that expansion draft 7 months ago.

I try to call each issue like i see it. And just because I see some positives in Francis' expansion plans does not necessarily mean I support all his moves and decisions and that I am not critical of them on these boards.

You call me a Francis defender just because I was against taking on big contracts at the draft, but if you check my history, I often play devil's advocate against his supporters in other areas.

 

[Gniwder]

My apologies then if that was your position. But that was the only Domi post the search engine returned by you before the draft, so i really was not trying to "cherry pick".

The product on the ice is more a bi-product of coaching in my opinion.

Hakstol has been absolutely terrible. And yes, I realize that is on Francis too, and have made no apologies for that hire.

He has had average results with talented teams, but he is coaching an expansion team the same way he coached the flyers and his IIHF rosters, thinking his squad can skate with the opposition, which is just flat out stupid.

Like you said we were all expecting low event hockey with a lot of defensive responsibility. What we are getting is a product that has no chance if succeeding, regardless of who was taken in that expansion draft 7 months ago.

I try to call each issue like i see it. And just because I see some positives in Francis' expansion plans does not necessarily mean I support all his moves and decisions and that I am not critical of them on these boards.

You call me a Francis defender just because I was against taking on big contracts at the draft, but if you check my history, I often play devil's advocate against his supporters in other areas.

Fair enough, especially since you don't like the coaching decision, so we agree on that.

I liked the draft picks, and I see they are all doing well in their D+1 season so there's definitely hope long term. I like the potential of the later picks, especially since the team needs to fill out an AHL roster, and all of them appear to have at least AHL potential. Cup champions are made with good drafting, the ED botch just delays progress by a season or two. By the time the team is ready to compete Hakstol's contract will be over anyways. (I'm assuming it's 3 or 4 years, I don't think details were ever released).

 

[Irie]

BTW, I find it really funny how you guys are still defending the ED.

It's like the Boston fans who think Marchand didn't deserve a suspension. Quoting a guy on the main board, the mental gymnastics here is amazing.

You are asking us to change our opinion on something because you think your opinion is better.

I would still take Dunn over Tarasenko.

Tarasenko has been playing with guys like Buchnevich, Thomas, and Kyrou who are also close to PPG players on a very well coached Blues team, usually playing against inferior defensive matchups due to how loaded St Louis is, and is part of a lethal powerplay.

So you are looking at stats to say you were correct, but all of those factors would not be around him had he come to Seattle, so we are talking apples to oranges.

And I would not have drafted Domi either. Sure he might have helped this team, but even looking at his stats now, 23 points in 38 games and he is absolutely abysmal on the defensive side of the puck, and then add in his history of attitude issues, and I would not want to pay him 5.5 million to possibly stir the pot within this organization.

Yes, maybe they could have gotten an extra 2nd for him, but that extra pick is definitely not worth that risk.

This is my opinion. You can keep coming back for years and posting to see if I have changed my mind, but that was my mindset at the draft, so I felt it was the right decision at the time, and it still looks alright to me, even in hindsight.

 

[Gniwder]

You are asking us to change our opinion on something because you think your opinion is better.

I would still take Dunn over Tarasenko.

Tarasenko has been playing with guys like Buchnevich, Thomas, and Kyrou who are also close to PPG players on a very well coached Blues team, usually playing against inferior defensive matchups due to how loaded St Louis is, and is part of a lethal powerplay.

So you are looking at stats to say you were correct, but all of those factors would not be around him had he come to Seattle, so we are talking apples to oranges.

And I would not have drafted Domi either. Sure he might have helped this team, but even looking at his stats now, 23 points in 38 games and he is absolutely abysmal on the defensive side of the puck, and then add in his history of attitude issues, and I would not want to pay him 5.5 million to possibly stir the pot within this organization.

Yes, maybe they could have gotten an extra 2nd for him, but that extra pick is definitely not worth that risk.

This is my opinion. You can keep coming back for years and posting to see if I have changed my mind, but that was my mindset at the draft, so I felt it was the right decision at the time, and it still looks alright to me, even in hindsight.

The way to a good powerplay is to have guys with skill. We know that PP is a deficiency with this team, Tarasenko would be a huge improvement. This team has nobody that can shoot, another reason why I quit watching.

You look at it as Dunn or Tarasenko, I look at it as Dunn and Geekie or Tarasenko and Bean. I would definitely take the later, hindsight or not. Obviously if Francis didn't pick Dunn, he would've picked another defenseman from somewhere else.

Like I said before, Domi gets along with his teammates, and I don't see him causing issues with coaches on a contract year. Francis protected Hakstol in the ED, I noticed he didn't pick any players that have previously played for him like Stecher. If a coach needs to be protected, why was he chosen?

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

The way to a good powerplay is to have guys with skill. We know that PP is a deficiency with this team, Tarasenko would be a huge improvement. This team has nobody that can shoot, another reason why I quit watching.

You look at it as Dunn or Tarasenko, I look at it as Dunn and Geekie or Tarasenko and Bean. I would definitely take the later, hindsight or not. Obviously if Francis didn't pick Dunn, he would've picked another defenseman from somewhere else.

Like I said before, Domi gets along with his teammates, and I don't see him causing issues with coaches on a contract year. Francis protected Hakstol in the ED, I noticed he didn't pick any players that have previously played for him like Stecher. If a coach needs to be protected, why was he chosen?

Ok. So your two points on contention are Domi and Tarasenko right.

Tarasenko is easy. He was coming of an injured shoulder and has a high cap hit. You think the Blues would have exposed Tarasenko if they had expected him to bounce back from injury? I certainly didn't. Taking Tarasenko would have been a great risk specially considering those 2 factors. And this is not even taking into account the lack of talent between the Blues and the Kraken. Expecting Tank to perform at the same level on the Kraken as the Blues is really not realistic.

Regarding Domi, his return from injury was nowhere short of miraculous. Plus just looking at how his production has slowed down on a much better Blue Jackets team makes me seriously doubt he produced at even that level on our team. We keep playing hypotheticals about Francis missing out but what if he had picked those players and they had not worked out for us at all. Pretty sure there would be a much of folks calling out Francis was going after injured players instead of building the team 'right' from the ground up.

Sure Geekie has been a disappointment. And lets just say that picking Bean would have worked out better for us than Geekie but at that time there was not much of an opposition about us picking Geekie. It is easy to say that hindsight or not, you would have picked someone else, but that is exactly what you are basing your argument on. If Geekie would have worked out straight from the start, there would be no argument to make.

 

[Irie]

The way to a good powerplay is to have guys with skill. We know that PP is a deficiency with this team, Tarasenko would be a huge improvement. This team has nobody that can shoot, another reason why I quit watching.

You look at it as Dunn or Tarasenko, I look at it as Dunn and Geekie or Tarasenko and Bean. I would definitely take the later, hindsight or not. Obviously if Francis didn't pick Dunn, he would've picked another defenseman from somewhere else.

Like I said before, Domi gets along with his teammates, and I don't see him causing issues with coaches on a contract year. Francis protected Hakstol in the ED, I noticed he didn't pick any players that have previously played for him like Stecher. If a coach needs to be protected, why was he chosen?

We definitely see this team differently. You see no shooters, I look at this team and see nothing but shooters and no one that can create space and play the playmaker role.

Gourde, McCann, Schwartz, Eberle, Donato, Blackwell, Jarnkrok, hell, even Geekie has a great shot when he was playing on the halfwall at the start of the season on the PP. But they have no one that has the vision to read the D and use the ice to create space and distribute the puck.

They have Johansson and Wennberg, both of which are actually better shooters than line driving play-makers.

Which brings me to your next point, given the amount of D available in the draft, and the absolute complete void of available young centers, I liked the Geekie selection at the time.

I think Hakstol has absolutely done a terrible job developing Geekie. There is no consistency or definitions with his lines it seems, and for a young guy trying to learn to play center in the NHL, that is a tough position.

Now would Bean have been the better selection? Possibly, but I am not a big fan of his game, so I still had Geekie over him on my draft board on draft day.

But you have to realize that we are talking about a few picks that likely would not have made a bit of difference for this team on the ice being coached the way it is being coached. I don't see these moves making much if any difference in the standings.

 

[Gniwder]

Ok. So your two points on contention are Domi and Tarasenko right.

Tarasenko is easy. He was coming of an injured shoulder and has a high cap hit. You think the Blues would have exposed Tarasenko if they had expected him to bounce back from injury? I certainly didn't. Taking Tarasenko would have been a great risk specially considering those 2 factors. And this is not even taking into account the lack of talent between the Blues and the Kraken. Expecting Tank to perform at the same level on the Kraken as the Blues is really not realistic.

Regarding Domi, his return from injury was nowhere short of miraculous. Plus just looking at how his production has slowed down on a much better Blue Jackets team makes me seriously doubt he produced at even that level on our team. We keep playing hypotheticals about Francis missing out but what if he had picked those players and they had not worked out for us at all. Pretty sure there would be a much of folks calling out Francis was going after injured players instead of building the team 'right' from the ground up.

Sure Geekie has been a disappointment. And lets just say that picking Bean would have worked out better for us than Geekie but at that time there was not much of an opposition about us picking Geekie. It is easy to say that hindsight or not, you would have picked someone else, but that is exactly what you are basing your argument on. If Geekie would have worked out straight from the start, there would be no argument to make.

The fact is those players (combined) have more skills than the players Francis picked. Sure they may not put up as many points with Seattle, but Tarasenko would certainly improve the powerplay. Francis would have gotten criticized for picking injured players, but that criticism would have turned to praise by now.

I am not basing any of my arguments on hindsight, I called it right after Francis made his picks. That's the whole thing, time has proven me right and you guys keep saying it's hindsight, lol. It's not like I just came here midseason and started criticizing his picks, you know damn well I was harping on it before the season even started.

And I did not expect Domi to come back earlier than scheduled, I just figured he'd have trade value and insurance would cover his salary until he returned so the timeline didn't matter as long as he was healthy before the TDL. Plus his team isn't much better than the Kraken, they have a better record because they have better coaching. If the Kraken had Tarasenko and Domi, the team would probably be right around where CBJ is right now (.500 pt %).

Seriously, it's just mental gymnastics. Most of my hockey buddies here in B'ham agree with me, they're also like... wish we had Tarasenko. It's just this board is dominated by people who are going to defend Francis' ED to no end despite the results. It's a weird hill to die on.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

The fact is those players (combined) have more skills than the players Francis picked. Sure they may not put up as many points with Seattle, but Tarasenko would certainly improve the powerplay. Francis would have gotten criticized for picking injured players, but that criticism would have turned to praise by now.

I am not basing any of my arguments on hindsight, I called it right after Francis made his picks. That's the whole thing, time has proven me right and you guys keep saying it's hindsight, lol. It's not like I just came here midseason and started criticizing his picks, you know damn well I was harping on it before the season even started.

And I did not expect Domi to come back earlier than scheduled, I just figured he'd have trade value and insurance would cover his salary until he returned so the timeline didn't matter as long as he was healthy before the TDL. Plus his team isn't much better than the Kraken, they have a better record because they have better coaching. If the Kraken had Tarasenko and Domi, the team would probably be right around where CBJ is right now (.500 pt %).

Seriously, it's just mental gymnastics. Most of my hockey buddies here in B'ham agree with me, they're also like... wish we had Tarasenko. It's just this board is dominated by people who are going to defend Francis' ED to no end despite the results. It's a weird hill to die on.

You know this is the type of superior attitude that bothers people.

'Mental Gymnastics'
'My hockey buddies all agree with me'

You think that matters to us? You are acting like a hockey know it all trying to act superior. We don't agree with your opinion and are really not interested in trying to convince you with ours. And yet here you are again and again trying to relive the same expansion draft topic again to bash on Francis. We know how you feel and don't agree with you. You know how we feel and you don't agree with us. Why don't just quit bringing the topic up?

 

[Gniwder]

Which brings me to your next point, given the amount of D available in the draft, and the absolute complete void of available young centers, I liked the Geekie selection at the time.

There was a huge opportunity to pick extra D and trade, especially if the long term plan was to build through the draft. That would've been a different alternative.

That's the argument by the other poster here, there's no consistency in the approach. If the plan was to build through the draft then why sign Grubby for $5.9x6? Especially after picking Vanecek (2.39 GAA, .915 SV% and the Caps D isn't even that good)

I didn't mind the Oleksiak signing though, you gotta have at least one player that can keep the opponent honest. Preferably a player that can actually play hockey instead of a straight out goon.

Like I said before, it's not the end of the world, just prolongs the building process by couple of years, but it's just really weird taht any hockey fan can look at the ED and free agency (too) and say he didn't screw up.

 

[Gniwder]

You know this is the type of superior attitude that bothers people.

'Mental Gymnastics'
'My hockey buddies all agree with me'

You think that matters to us? You are acting like a hockey know it all trying to act superior. We don't agree with your opinion and are really not interested in trying to convince you with ours. And yet here you are again and again trying to relive the same expansion draft topic again to bash on Francis. We know how you feel and don't agree with you. You know how we feel and you don't agree with us. Why don't just quit bringing the topic up?

No, the issue I have is that you guys have the attitude. We're right and we're gonna bash you until you leave. That's the approach you've been taking with anyone that criticizes Francis, just read through the thread.

Why respond if you don't want to discuss it? You are welcome to ignore me or anyone else that thinks Francis screwed up. It's a discussion board, and I understand you're a mod but that doesn't mean you should drown out opposing opinions. You act like you own the board and anyone that disagree needs to be chased out. That is NOT what a mod should be doing.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Look it folks, the team is bad because the players are bad. If the players were good teams would be calling and making deals for them but they haven't moved a soul yet. One month until the trade deadline and it will be interesting to see if any players get moved. Schwartz might have been good but he got hurt in 15-16 and has never really been the same since. The points he put up after that were due to the fact that he was playing on a good team. The scouts should have known this. Same thing with Grubs, the guy never played more than 40 games in a NHL season and somehow Francis gives him 6 million a year for 6 years. There is a reason Sakic didn't feel the need to spend money retaining him. I could go on and on about the free agent signings like Larsson, Oleksiak, but I'll move on to the draft picks that the the team hasn't even picked yet. All I'll say is look at Edmonton and ask your selves when was the last time they were any good? As for Beniers, he might just stay in college and avoid playing for the Kracken. This team is about as poorly constructed as I have ever seen and I been through quite a few expansions. The only one worse might have been the California Golden Seals but they had 5 other teams competing with them. Francis had every opportunity to get it right but this a hole that will take a decade or more to dig out of.

This might be the worst take I've ever seen about Seattle and a lot of people have been coming in here to make bad takes. Schwartz has 3 50 point plus seasons since 15/16, he was nearly a ppg in 17/18. He's scoring roughly the same ppg this season as Voracek who everyone says Seattle should have picked while being several years younger and costing several million less.

Grubauer would have started more than 40 games if the last two seasons weren't shortened. I also don't know of what's worse not paying your starter who was very good for you for a few years or trading a 1st plus for a starter that's a UFA in a year you'll have to pay big to keep. Also that starter you traded for has played more than 40 games just once in his career while being older than Grubauer. So not sure Sakic made the right decision.

I see you only mentioned Oleksiak and Larsson and didn't say anything about them because those signings were more than fair and both players have lived up to them. The only thing I would have done differently is swap the contracts between the two, feel the RD should have been signed longer.

Please tell me what deals they should have made to get draft picks? And these absolutely on chance Berniers doesn't sign with the Kraken, it'll most likely happen once this NCAA season ends and he gets a few games in this year. I also love how it'll take a decade to dig out of the expansion draft, clown stuff bro.

 

[HoseEmDown]

I said all of the above the day of the expansion draft and you know I did, as did others who criticized the ED. It's not hindsight drafting at all.

I believe Domi would have behaved simply because he's on a contract year. He also gets along with his teammates, his problem is that he butts heads with his coaches. I would've picked him strictly as a trade piece, so the timeline doesn't matter, but I don't think CBJ lied. He came back from his shoulder surgery really quickly.

I also expected Francis to draft extra defensemen like Bean, then trade for prospects or picks. If the plan was to build through the draft then he should have gotten as many trade chips are possible. The ED was terrible, look at any mock ED and Francis did worse.

Francis didn’t avoid Domi because of his attitude. He most likely avoided him because he was expected to miss at least the first month of the season. Francis was already going to select Gourde who was also going to miss the first month of the season. So you can't have 10M tied up in 2 players who won't be playing the first month of the year. With Gourde being signed long term he was worth taking while Domi being a UFA didn't make as much sense, if he struggles coming back or has a set back your wasting cap and cash. I also don't know if Domi is a fit with Hakstol style of play.

If you take Bean then you don't get Geekie. I know Geekie isn't having the best of seasons but he's still just 23. He's a big kid with a very good shot, if he can work on other aspects of his game he could become a nice middle 6 forward. A 2nd is nice and all but you don't pass on a promising young forward for that.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

No, the issue I have is that you guys have the attitude. We're right and we're gonna bash you until you leave. That's the approach you've been taking with anyone that criticizes Francis, just read through the thread.

Why respond if you don't want to discuss it? You are welcome to ignore me or anyone else that thinks Francis screwed up. It's a discussion board, and I understand you're a mod but that doesn't mean you should drown out opposing opinions. You act like you own the board and anyone that disagree needs to be chased out. That is NOT what a mod should be doing.

You need to get caught up on the conversations you have missed since you bailed out after 2 weeks.

We have expressed frustration with the hiring of Hakstol as well as questioned some FA signings. However, we need to watch this TDL and off- season before dumping on Francis.

We are also wondering what can be done now to improve the roster going forward instead of crying over spilt milk.

I am also confused about whether you are a Kraken fan or not. One hand it seems like you want the team to do well. On the other hand you quit on the team after 2 weeks.

 

[Irie]

There was a huge opportunity to pick extra D and trade, especially if the long term plan was to build through the draft. That would've been a different alternative.

That's the argument by the other poster here, there's no consistency in the approach. If the plan was to build through the draft then why sign Grubby for $5.9x6? Especially after picking Vanecek (2.39 GAA, .915 SV% and the Caps D isn't even that good)

I didn't mind the Oleksiak signing though, you gotta have at least one player that can keep the opponent honest. Preferably a player that can actually play hockey instead of a straight out goon.

Like I said before, it's not the end of the world, just prolongs the building process by couple of years, but it's just really weird taht any hockey fan can look at the ED and free agency (too) and say he didn't screw up.

I actually see a lot of consistency in the approach, with the very large exception of the Grubauer signing.

All the other signings were either cheap stop gaps to fill out the roster, or targeted guys that have a work-ethic locker room/teammate reputation.

The consistency is that Francis valued character over skill and he targeted more established players on short term contracts than expensive long term deals or young players with potential that might be more of reclaimation projects than sure things, which is where I disagreed with his moves in the expansion draft.

Take out Grubauer and keep Vanecek, and I think the plan seems consistent and it is easy to argue for the reasoning behind all the other moves.

Don't ask me to try to explain the Grubauer signing, because I can't other than my previous speculation that Francis knows he has struggled finding goalies in the past in Carolina, so when Grubauer became available, he panicked and signed him long term.

 

[Gniwder]

Francis didn’t avoid Domi because of his attitude. He most likely avoided him because he was expected to miss at least the first month of the season. Francis was already going to select Gourde who was also going to miss the first month of the season. So you can't have 10M tied up in 2 players who won't be playing the first month of the year. With Gourde being signed long term he was worth taking while Domi being a UFA didn't make as much sense, if he struggles coming back or has a set back your wasting cap and cash. I also don't know if Domi is a fit with Hakstol style of play.

If you take Bean then you don't get Geekie. I know Geekie isn't having the best of seasons but he's still just 23. He's a big kid with a very good shot, if he can work on other aspects of his game he could become a nice middle 6 forward. A 2nd is nice and all but you don't pass on a promising young forward for that.

Domi's salary would've been covered by insurance if he couldn't play. I would've selected him basically as a trade chip. The team still has cap space, so I don't see how that is even part of the argument. Plus if the team had Gourde, Domi, and Tarasenko then he probably wouldn't have signed Grubby....

 

[Gniwder]

You need to get caught up on the conversations you have missed since you bailed out after 2 weeks.

We have expressed frustration with the hiring of Hakstol as well as questioned some FA signings. However, we need to watch this TDL and off- season before dumping on Francis.

We are also wondering what can be done now to improve the roster going forward instead of crying over spilt milk.

I am also confused about whether you are a Kraken fan or not. One hand it seems like you want the team to do well. On the other hand you quit on the team after 2 weeks.

FFS it was a couple of dozen games, not 2 weeks. I quit posting here because it's the same half a dozen posters knocking down anyone with a opposing opinion. It still is, I know a clique when I see one.

Francis had the opportunity to put together a watchable team, and failed to do so. I just don't see any reason to watch the team right now because I expect almost a full roster turnover before they compete for the playoffs. Like I said before, when the new core of the team starts playing then it's worth watching. If you guys want to make the argument that the team decided to save money and be risk adverse, that fine. But they were so risk adverse they put together something not worth watching for now. I think the team will do well in the future because I really liked this past draft, and if they continue on the same path then they will eventually be good after Hakstol gets canned, lol.

Some people like to cry over spilt milk, it is what it is. You are not obligated to respond to every post you know....