Prospect Info: Riley Kidney, LHC, Gatineau Olympiques (QMJHL ), 63rd overall

Habs Halifax

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I don't think there's any reason to bookmark any of it. He's a late 2nd round prospect with a great D+1 year.

Josh Brook looked simultaneously really good and his career went off the rails due to injuries.

Banking against prospects will work out almost every time because just not that many make it and even fewer establish themselves.

Fair but my point is to sell high now and I feel Kravtsov might be a better piece when we look back in a few years. We will see cause you are not wrong, most don't pan out. I like Kravtsov's size and goal scoring ability. I think he can fill a winger need for us.

Not desperate to make this move cause it's very possible we can find wingers in the next two drafts. I don't hate Kidney, I just see your typical hype before turning pro and I'd definitely consider that 1/1 swap. I'm much higher on Roy than Kidney. And I like Farrell more than Kidney too.
 

KevSkillz4

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Could Kidney become the next Nick Suzuki?

They have a lot of similar traits.
Both 5'11, high iq, great passer, great vision, creative, playoff performer, and on pace for the same number of points in their d+1 year.
Suzuki improved his skating and got stronger, so just need Kidney to do the same.

He play very similar game, for sure. Suzuki too isn't the best skater in junior... like Kidney and like you said, Suzuki improve his skating ability.

Habs have two prospect with big potential with Kidney and Roy... if they reach their potential, they will be very good hockey players.
 

cbtitan

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Center is the biggest need we have. Why would we go for Kravtsov which is probably our area of strength?

Kidney is the best center in the Q right now. With 0 physical maturity and average skating. He's doing what he's doing on talent and IQ alone.
It makes me laugh to read that the "best center in the Q", who is only 18 YO and playing against 19-20 YO players does not represent a good enough asset for the Habs and should be traded because he is not exactly mature physically or could be a little speedier....furthermore his only thing that allows him to be the best center is his hockey IQ....
Some on here are unreal and would be fired as scouts immediately...
Riley Kidney is the best Habs prospects from the Q at center by a wide margin and is also one of the best Habs prospects all around.
Projecting him as a 3rd line C is a total misuse of his potential.
He is top-6 written all over him.
Get real please!
 

WeThreeKings

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It makes me laugh to read that the "best center in the Q", who is only 18 YO and playing against 19-20 YO players does not represent a good enough asset for the Habs and should be traded because he is not exactly mature physically or could be a little speedier....furthermore his only thing that allows him to be the best center is his hockey IQ....
Some on here are unreal and would be fired as scouts immediately...
Riley Kidney is the best Habs prospects from the Q at center by a wide margin and is also one of the best Habs prospects all around.
Projecting him as a 3rd line C is a total misuse of his potential.
He is top-6 written all over him.
Get real please!

If the insight is "he's not physically mature" as a bad thing.. it's the wrong frame. It's a good thing.

Scouts worth their salt do this all the time. They see where a player is and project what they would be like when they mature physically.

Bad scouts draft Colton Gillies in the first round because he's big and fast, but when everyone else is big and fast, where does he find his advantage? The answer was - nowhere, because he busted and it was obvious to most.
 

JoelWarlord

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I’ve said it before: the regressive approach of drafting players with limited skating abilities is akin to drafting water polo players who have limitations in swimming abilities. If it is foolhardy to do the latter, why in heaven is it not similarly foolhardy to do the former?
What about players that can't shoot? Can't hit? Can't handle the puck? Have limited to no physical strength/small frame and are easily moved off the puck? Everything in sports management and the subset of drafting is about managing tradeoffs and making calculated bets on which players have the best combination of skills and projectability at the top level of play. Pick your poison, lots of guys are lightning fast skaters and never make it because they can't read the play well enough at the pro level.

Skating is obviously very important to hockey, but I see no reason why you should categorically write off any player who's a poor skater at any stage in the draft. It's not really comparable to water polo as we're talking about skaters who are mediocre relative to the top ~800 skaters on the planet but are still basically competent navigating the ice as hockey players, not water polo players who are struggling to prevent themselves from drowning.
I don’t think its very insightful to build a drafting strategy around drafting fourth round draft choices who one hope’s will overcome their acknowledged skating deficiencies. It means that there is just one more hurdle they have to overcome in reaching the NHL. For every Point there are hundreds of McShanes, Fonstads, Crisps, Hudons, who enter the draft with questionable skating skills.
This is a strange group of guys to lump together. Crisp was drafted as a goon, Hudon made it to the NHL and had a decent career, and McShane/Fonstad were mid/late picks that had solid production in their draft years and just didn't progress. It happens, but it's not a reason to just write off anyone who's not an above average skater on draft day. Of course skating is valuable, and I'm certainly not saying the team should just pick the guys with the best hands in any situation and ignore skating, but I don't see why you would just write off every player that isn't an average skater on draft day.

It really just doesn't make sense to me. Outside of the top handful of picks every player in the draft is going to have some discernable weakness, and if you're picking high end skaters in the 4th+ rounds that's usually going to be either because they're 5'4" or have hands of stone. Those are just as difficult hurdles to overcome to be a capable NHL player as skating.
 
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WeThreeKings

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What about players that can't shoot? Can't hit? Can't handle the puck? Have limited to no physical strength/small frame and are easily moved off the puck? Everything in sports management and the subset of drafting is about managing tradeoffs and making calculated bets on which players have the best combination of skills and projectability at the top level of play. Pick your poison, lots of guys are lightning fast skaters and never make it because they can't read the play well enough at the pro level.

Skating is obviously very important to hockey, but I see no reason why you should categorically write off any player who's a poor skater at any stage in the draft. It's not really comparable to water polo as we're talking about skaters who are mediocre relative to the top ~800 skaters on the planet but are still basically competent navigating the ice as hockey players, not water polo players who are struggling to prevent themselves from drowning.

This is a strange group of guys to lump together. Crisp was drafted as a goon, Hudon made it to the NHL and had a decent career, and McShane/Fonstad were mid/late picks that had solid production in their draft years and just didn't progress. It happens, but it's not a reason to just write off anyone who's not an above average skater on draft day. Of course skating is valuable, and I'm certainly not saying the team should just pick the guys with the best hands in any situation and ignore skating, but I don't see why you would just write off every player that isn't an average skater on draft day.

It really just doesn't make sense to me. Outside of the top handful of picks every player in the draft is going to have some discernable weakness, and if you're picking high end skaters in the 4th+ rounds that's usually going to be either because they're 5'4" or have hands of stone. Those are just as difficult hurdles to overcome to be a capable NHL player as skating.

The Habs would have missed entirely on Suzuki as a draft pick or trade piece if they subscribed to the notion that every prospect has to be an elite skater. Being an elite thinker is better than being an elite skater.
 

Colezuki

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How about instead of evaluating prospects on one skill you evaluate their overall potential based on their full package
 

Runner77

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The Habs would have missed entirely on Suzuki as a draft pick or trade piece if they subscribed to the notion that every prospect has to be an elite skater. Being an elite thinker is better than being an elite skater.
Of course the Habs would have missed out on Suzuki, they wanted Glass. ;)
 

Habs Halifax

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How about instead of evaluating prospects on one skill you evaluate their overall potential based on their full package

With me, is a measure on how many top grades they get in the following areas...

Skating
Hockey IQ
Skill
Size/Strength
Work ethic and hunger to improve
How they perform in different situations and leagues (development league they play in primarily and how they look when they change teams or play in international tournaments)

It's a tough business evaluating kids from 14-17 years when most of the growth happens from 18-21 and that's when you realize if they have NHL potential or not.
 
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Justin11

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As did I - because Glass was bigger and a better skater. Funny how it works, right?
Not saying this in hindsight, but I was happy with the return of Suzuki over Glass and only because I thought Suzuki has the better "hockey sense".
Will say this though, I did have a moment of doubt when I watched them both play in the world jr.
I try not to put too much stock in these short tournaments anymore.

On another note, once Kidney fills out, IMO, he will no doubt be ready for the big leagues.
 

Rob Sense

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He play very similar game, for sure. Suzuki too isn't the best skater in junior... like Kidney and like you said, Suzuki improve his skating ability.

Habs have two prospect with big potential with Kidney and Roy... if they reach their potential, they will be very good hockey players.
But the play in the Q. Old myth. I just called out a poster on another thread who said the Q is a very weak league. Don't think Crosby, McKinnon and many others would concur. Go Roy...Go Kidney!
 
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WeThreeKings

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Not saying this in hindsight, but I was happy with the return of Suzuki over Glass and only because I thought Suzuki has the better "hockey sense".
Will say this though, I did have a moment of doubt when I watched them both play in the world jr.
I try not to put too much stock in these short tournaments anymore.

On another note, once Kidney fills out, IMO, he will no doubt be ready for the big leagues.

I was certainly happy with Suzuki too, I just think if you polled people and executives, scouts at the time.. 9 out of 10 would have asked for Glass first, so hard to blame MB there and happy Vegas 'settled' on Suzuki.

And yeah, I think Kidney's gonna find his way into the NHL, the question is, will he be a 3C or a 2C?
 

Skip Bayless

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Even hockey IQ is too broad of a term for me.

Some players are really smart in specific situations, but not really in others.

Some players know how to manage the game, but suck positionally. Would you say they're "High IQ" players?

Some players are really good positionally in the O zone, but defensively only cheat. (Mike Hoffman) Is he a high IQ player?
 

Habs Halifax

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Not saying this in hindsight, but I was happy with the return of Suzuki over Glass and only because I thought Suzuki has the better "hockey sense".
Will say this though, I did have a moment of doubt when I watched them both play in the world jr.
I try not to put too much stock in these short tournaments anymore.

On another note, once Kidney fills out, IMO, he will no doubt be ready for the big leagues.

The short tournaments should not be pumped up nor deflated. Factor it in the overall formula. You can look at Poehling and use that as evidence but then you are ignoring Tkachuk.

Suzuki was fine with me at the WJC. You clearly could see the vision
 

Justin11

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I was certainly happy with Suzuki too, I just think if you polled people and executives, scouts at the time.. 9 out of 10 would have asked for Glass first, so hard to blame MB there and happy Vegas 'settled' on Suzuki.

And yeah, I think Kidney's gonna find his way into the NHL, the question is, will he be a 3C or a 2C?
I agree that Glass was considered the better prospect at that time and can't blame VGK for not including him in the deal. MB got lucky there, but will give him props for pulling the trigger.

I believe Kidney has the tools to be a 2C and let's cross our fingers that same will be the case.
 

KevSkillz4

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But the play in the Q. Old myth. I just called out a poster on another thread who said the Q is a very weak league. Don't think Crosby, McKinnon and many others would concur. Go Roy...Go Kidney!

Putting 100 points season in Q at age 18 (19 now for Kidney, but he is on 18 years old season)... that's impressive. If Roy and Kidney work on their issues... they can be both top 6 players at NHL level. They have great hockey IQ, both have great passing ability, both have great hands, Kidney is more a playmaker and Roy more a shooter. Both are 1st round talent in my mind.
 

Justin11

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The short tournaments should not be pumped up nor deflated. Factor it in the overall formula. You can look at Poehling and use that as evidence but then you are ignoring Tkachuk.

Suzuki was fine with me at the WJC. You clearly could see the vision
I agree with the bolded part.

Suzuki was indeed fine, but did not standout like Glass did. It was just a very short moment of doubt, but all is good now.
 
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Habs Halifax

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I agree with the bolded part.

Suzuki was indeed fine, but did not standout like Glass did. It was just a very short moment of doubt, but all is good now.

Hey, I made a bet with a friend of mine with Suzuki when we were watching him at the Memorial cup. I said he was not ready for the NHL and we put a bet on it....

$1 to my friend for every NHL game he plays
vs
$1 to me for every AHL game he plays.


I lost $71 in 19/20. The area that we just can guess is how they improve and their hunger to improve and force their way into the NHL.
 
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Rob Sense

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I agree with the bolded part.

Suzuki was indeed fine, but did not standout like Glass did. It was just a very short moment of doubt, but all is good now.
He did ok in the WJC but was not well utilized. He really shined in the OHL playoffs.
 
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Justin11

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Hey, I made a bet with a friend of mine with Suzuki when we were watching him at the Memorial cup. I said he was not ready for the NHL and we put a bet on it....

$1 to my friend for every NHL game he plays
vs
$1 to me for every AHL game he plays.


I lost $71 in 19/20. The area that we just can guess is how they improve and their hunger to improve and force their way into the NHL.
Your friend made a very wise and easy money bet :laugh:

I also thought he was ready after the memorial cup. I remember following him very closely his last season in the juniors.
 

dcyhabs

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As did I - because Glass was bigger and a better skater. Funny how it works, right?

Drafting in the NHL is pretty random because of the age limits. Many sports draft later and have a much better correlation between talent and draft number.

In the NHL most players have some physical growing to do, a lot of bulking up, and a lot of learning. Some improve dramatically from 18-22 or later, some don't. Lots of us didn't want Brady Tkatchuk because it looked as though he just matured early and wouldn't improve enough for the NHL. A 100% success rate is obviously impossible, but I wonder what the target is. A lot of people on this board really expect to draft stars every year and it doesn't happen for any team.
 

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