Rielly ranked #1 of 2012 draft class in TSN (Craig Button) Top 30 NHL Prospects

[RogerRoeper*]

What do you mean by this?



Depends how loosely you like using the term. Was Kaberle a star to you? Is Letang a star to you? Enstrom? Campbell? Or is Karlsson a star?

Offence can be tracked pretty easily with point trackers but defence DOES NOT show up on a stat tracker. Some people are simply oblivious to it but it is as important as offence.



Definitely agree here. I'm way more optimistic about this pick than Schenn's (who cost an arm and a leg too). Reinhart seems like that kind of pick



Seems like the Islanders drafted on need rather than best player at the time. They have Calvin Dehaan and Visnovsky and Streit right? Maybe they want some backup for Hamonic solidifying the net?

Yes, they all are. Do you seriously not consider Karlsson a "Star" right now? He won the Norris.

 

[charliolemieux]

My bad CHARLIO!
.

Thank you very much.

 

[Bomber0104]

Yes, they all are. Do you seriously not consider Karlsson a "Star" right now? He won the Norris.

Well if the term is used as loosely as that in my opinion there's too many stars in the league. Karlsson is surely a star. Kaberle, Enstrom, and Letang. Very borderline. These subjective names interfere with what matters most and that's results. It's easy to look at numbers and decide whos a better defenceman. Harder to see the actual impact of them playing defence (the title of their position).

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

(...)
(1) Sheldon souray was a top pairing D-men in his prime years (64 point season and 53 point season). Like kaberle, he has since fell off.

Look at the defensemen below

(...)

Those are the top 12 defenseman in the league as voted by (2) Hfboards. (...)

Second, very few defenseman who produce that many points are as terrible defensively as the defenseman you listed, thats why its such a short list. The chances of Schultz being that bad are very low (looking at history). (3) Most defenseman of this calibre are able to use their IQ and skating to be at least OK defensively (two traits they usually possess when notching up elite point totals). Thats why, when looking at Schultz' AHL production, there is little risk in predicting that he will be a top d-man in the league.

edit: so there is no absolute line, but if you produce 60+ points, its very likely that you will be a top d-man, at least based on history

(1) You would sing a different tune if he had played for your favorite team. Boy was the man dumb.

In 2006-07, the 64 points season, he was third amongst d-men on his team for ES and PK time per game.

(2) There lies the rub, that's my point.

(3) Your best argument and a solid one.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Pretty simple.

Based on a previous discussion me and Charlio had in which he expressed an opinion that rankings are irrelevant wrt prospects I asked whether a) this was still the case and b) if it was not the case.... was it because the Leafs had a prospect ranked first (which would indicate bias). Thats the straw man and yes you are right its an attempt to mock. That much you are correct in

I think youre putting me on. Not working evidently.

Evidently you still don't realize that this is the worst thread to do that as he has ridiculed the worthiness of that ranking...

 

[Bomber0104]

Evidently you still don't realize that this is the worst thread to do that as he has ridiculed the worthiness of that ranking...

And as I acknowledged, I do not read threads spanning MANY pages!!!

So now we are back to square one...and after all this talk of reputation (which was very hurtful btw) you didn't understand the very first primer i told u which was that I ONLY READ THE LAST PAGE OF SUPER LONG THREADS!

I normally just post on Game Day Talks which as you can imagine DO NOT INVOLVE ME READING but rather posting ANGRY TIRADES against the LEAFS which LET ME DOWN CONSTANTLY!

So here I am to spell out in full how much I hate the managers and bums on this team during the lockout.

 

[Beleafer4]

(1) You would sing a different tune if he had played for your favorite team. Boy was the man dumb.

In 2006-07, the 64 points season, he was third amongst d-men on his for ES and PK time per game.

(2) There lies the rub, that's my point.

(3) Your best argument and a solid one.

Ill trust you for number 1.

For #2, I had to use HFboards list because I dont know of any other list from an expert source. Maybe best players as voted by other nhl players? Even then, offense still seems like a key factor

1)Lidstrom
2)Chara
3)Weber
4)Karlsson
5)Doughty
6)Suter
7)Letang
8)Kieth

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/45156-THNs-Top-50-NHLers-as-voted-by-the-players-3531.html

For #3, thanks

 

[Bomber0104]

(1) You would sing a different tune if he had played for your favorite team. Boy was the man dumb.

In 2006-07, the 64 points season, he was third amongst d-men on his ( ) for ES and PK time per game.

(2) There lies the rub, that's my point.

(3) Your best argument and a solid one.

Did you mean to write "team" there?

Curious, for educational purposes.

 

[Atomos2]

Well if the term is used as loosely as that in my opinion there's too many stars in the league. Karlsson is surely a star. Kaberle, Enstrom, and Letang. Very borderline. These subjective names interfere with what matters most and that's results. It's easy to look at numbers and decide whos a better defenceman. Harder to see the actual impact of them playing defence (the title of their position).

I'd say if they have played in an all star game or are worthy enough to play in an all star game, they can be considered a star

 

[Preisst*]

Just wondering, what are you debating here with CharlesLemieux?

Maybe me and my keen logical skills can be of some assistance here.

Its really self apparant. I am saying that no matter what Button has done before, during or after his decision to dump JSG when he was GMing the Flames at the time, it was the right decision at that time. JSG was horrible when he was on the Flames and it was the right call by Button to get rid of him.

Calgary radio? Those guys must be Leaf fans overhyping their own prospects again.

No. I live in Calgary and trust me those guys are NOT Leaf fans in any way shape or form. Just typical media 'experts' jumping on a bandwagon.

ON the link you provided Giguere had a .914sv% and 2.73 gaa in 7gp CGY before he was traded.

Even if it was," right at the time ", this list is not about right now. This is a list of prospects with a large portion based on potential down the road.

Button has shown no ability to project a players potential down the road.

OMG - - I was responding to your comment re Button and Giguere

 

[Bomber0104]

Its really self apparant. I am saying that no matter what Button has done before, during or after his decision to dump JSG when he was GMing the Flames at the time, it was the right decision at that time. JSG was horrible when he was on the Flames and it was the right call by Button to get rid of him.

Not a bad move, only well into hindsight (Brian Murray???). Jiggy wasn't the reason the Ducks won. They had a GREAT defensive squad leading the way. He helped but wasn't the reason for it.

 

[charliolemieux]

OMG - - I was responding to your comment re Button and Giguere

If you're confused then so am I. I thought Giguere and Button WAS what we where talking about.

My POV is that if we are going to look at Button as a judge of future potential in a player then we have to look at his history. Now when we look at some of the players he gave up on there are three names that are just too big to dismiss. Giguere may be a distant 3rd on that list but he was the 3rd strike in Buttons carreer in CGY.

Which is why I have no faith in him as a judge of player potential.

edit: Which is why I have no faith in these rankings.

 

[diceman934]

Come on man. Do you honestly think four teams pass on a future legendary defenceman like Orr and Coffey?

Please, let's stay grounded.

People always stated that Coffey was not good defensively.....mistakenly. The same was said about Orr as well.

I was not comparing Rielly to Orr, but Orr is his idol....I was just refuting your comment.....

 

[Bomber0104]

People always stated that Coffey was not good defensively.....mistakenly. The same was said about Orr as well.

I was not comparing Rielly to Orr, but Orr is his idol....I was just refuting your comment.....

I thought his idol was Letang....

My idol could be Spiderman...doesn't mean I'll turn into him now does it?

 

[charliolemieux]

People always stated that Coffey was not good defensively.....mistakenly. The same was said about Orr as well.

I was not comparing Rielly to Orr, but Orr is his idol....I was just refuting your comment.....

Orr has the most rediculous +/- of all time. (before officially kept)

Rielly is fast enough to make up for a lot of missed plays.

What makes him really unique is that he has dangles, that rival the best forwards in the league.

He has made enough moves in the limited games I have seen him in to see that he is one of the special players that can anticipate plays. (Hockey IQ they call it now) That was evident to me with really one play in the Russia WHL games.

 

[7even]

I thought his idol was Letang....

My idol could be Spiderman...doesn't mean I'll turn into him now does it?

Nice

 

[zeke]

If that were true, could you please simultaneously explain why WHL teams put their top lines on the ice when Rielly is on the ice and why OHL teams keep their top lines away from Hamilton's line?

Something doesn't add up in this scouting report of yours.

Did you just try to use te fact that rielly is always on te ice against other team's top lines (whilesougie s not) AGAINST rielly?

Do you know anything about hockey?

 

[diceman934]

I thought his idol was Letang....

My idol could be Spiderman...doesn't mean I'll turn into him now does it?

His Idol is Orr and you agreed that an offensive defenceman was not really a good defenceman....I just gave you some examples of D man who were accused of not being great defensively.

I guess you thought wrong......and Morgan plays a very similar game to Orr.....great with the puck and loves to be involved offensively....I guess Morgan succeeded somewhat.

As for Spiderman......I thought it was wonderwomen.

 

[7even]

His Idol is Orr and you agreed that an offensive defenceman was not really a good defenceman....I just gave you some examples of D man who were accused of not being great defensively.

I guess you thought wrong......and Morgan plays a very similar game to Orr.....great with the puck and loves to be involved offensively....I guess Morgan succeeded somewhat.

As for Spiderman......I thought it was wonderwomen.

Aight if we're being real here Wonder Woman could probably kick Spider-Man's ass, so you know, there's that.

 

[Frankie]

strange that rielly even knows who bobby orr is. orr retired 15 years before rielly was born. weird that he'd be the kid's idol.

 

[diceman934]

strange that rielly even knows who bobby orr is. orr retired 15 years before rielly was born. weird that he'd be the kid's idol.

Look at the picture I posted.....would that picture alone not be the reason why he is Rielly's idol.

 

[diceman934]

Aight if we're being real here Wonder Woman could probably kick Spider-Man's ass, so you know, there's that.

I do not doubt that Wonderwomen could kick Spiderman's ass. I made that comment based on the cape.....the poster using the Pope as his avatar....cause me to compare more to Wonderwomen than Spiderman.

 

[Morbo]

strange that rielly even knows who bobby orr is. orr retired 15 years before rielly was born. weird that he'd be the kid's idol.

are you serious??

 

[Sundinisagod]

His Idol is Orr and you agreed that an offensive defenceman was not really a good defenceman....I just gave you some examples of D man who were accused of not being great defensively.

I guess you thought wrong......and Morgan plays a very similar game to Orr.....great with the puck and loves to be involved offensively....I guess Morgan succeeded somewhat.

As for Spiderman......I thought it was wonderwomen.

Look closely at their faces. Look closely at their skating. Look how Bobby is trying to hide his emotions towards Morgan. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that Bobby Orr is Morgan Rielly's biological father.

 

[7even]

I do not doubt that Wonderwomen could kick Spiderman's ass. I made that comment based on the cape.....the poster using the Pope as his avatar....cause me to compare more to Wonderwomen than Spiderman.

Oh I thought you were trying to insult him and I was like "well that's not a very good insult at all"