Player Discussion Ridly Greig (LW) 28th Overall

[aragorn]

I have Greig pencilled in to replace White at some point as this team's 3rd line centre in a yr or so if not earlier, but I also think he has top six potential. He seems to do everything well. from the PK to PP, from contributing offensively to playing well defensively, I think he is going to be a very good player for this team at some point soon & maybe very soon.

 

[DJB]

Right now looks like a middle 6 forward. I don't see his offense at the next level but hopefully I'm wrong. A solid contributing 3rd liner who can play some top 6 minutes if need be.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I have Greig pencilled in to replace White at some point as this team's 3rd line centre in a yr or so if not earlier, but I also think he has top six potential. He seems to do everything well. from the PK to PP, from contributing offensively to playing well defensively, I think he is going to be a very good player for this team at some point soon & maybe very soon.

I think I'd rather see Greig move to wing than Pinto. Pinto is just such a perfect C. Greig is a bit more dynamic but less reliable & less of a matchup player.

Also, not that Stutzle & Norris are tiny, and I think both will be pretty strong when they are fully developed, but neither are "big", both pretty lean and Greig is shorter & leaner than either one of them. Pinto brings above average size and strength and its hard to be outsized down the middle 50 mins a game. Not impossible, and size isn't worth much without skill, smarts, and skating ability, but Pinto brings all of those qualities.

A LW core of Tkachuk-Formenton-Greig-Paul and C core of Stutzle-Norris-Pinto-Kastelic(?) is very appealing to me.

 

[God Says No]

I think I'd rather see Greig move to wing than Pinto. Pinto is just such a perfect C. Greig is a bit more dynamic but less reliable & less of a matchup player.

Also, not that Stutzle & Norris are tiny, and I think both will be pretty strong when they are fully developed, but neither are "big", both pretty lean and Greig is shorter & leaner than either one of them. Pinto brings above average size and strength and its hard to be outsized down the middle 50 mins a game. Not impossible, and size isn't worth much without skill, smarts, and skating ability, but Pinto brings all of those qualities.

A LW core of Tkachuk-Formenton-Greig-Paul and C core of Stutzle-Norris-Pinto-Kastelic(?) is very appealing to me.

Agreed on Greig and Pinto. Moving Pinto to the wing would be stupid. To maximize his impact he should be playing C, no question. Posters who are putting him on the wing are being silly. Greig for sure can and should play wing.

Right now looks like a middle 6 forward. I don't see his offense at the next level but hopefully I'm wrong. A solid contributing 3rd liner who can play some top 6 minutes if need be.

That's exactly how I see it.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Agreed on Greig and Pinto. Moving Pinto to the wing would be stupid. To maximize his impact he should be playing C, no question. Posters who are putting him on the wing are being silly. Greig for sure can and should play wing.

If we lacked depth at C/if Stutzle failed to transition, I would have no problem playing Greig at C. But not ahead of Pinto and not in a 4th line role (at least not longterm).

 

[GCK]

My only red flag on Greig is how pedestrian he looked on the WJC team, granted it was a very small sample size. I would expect a D+1 player who projects as a top 6 player to stand out amongst his peers and Greig did not. You can talk about his role all you want but the skill of a future top 6 player should shine through. I’m not writing off his potential just pointing out my concern. Nothing wrong with getting a fast gritty 3rd liner that can produce offensively.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

My only red flag on Greig is how pedestrian he looked on the WJC team, granted it was a very small sample size. I would expect a D+1 player who projects as a top 6 player to stand out amongst his peers and Greig did not. You can talk about his role all you want but the skill of a future top 6 player should shine through. I’m not writing off his potential just pointing out my concern. Nothing wrong with getting a fast gritty 3rd liner that can produce offensively.

I mean, they didn't really face a top team at any point. I don't really care much how a kid looks against Austria & Czech Rep, unless they look BAD. He faces better competition in the WHL.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

My only red flag on Greig is how pedestrian he looked on the WJC team, granted it was a very small sample size. I would expect a D+1 player who projects as a top 6 player to stand out amongst his peers and Greig did not. You can talk about his role all you want but the skill of a future top 6 player should shine through. I’m not writing off his potential just pointing out my concern. Nothing wrong with getting a fast gritty 3rd liner that can produce offensively.

This makes absolutely no sense. Greig struggled the same way Wright did. Those are 2 way beasts who dismantle teams with their IQ and 2 way game. They were literally playing shootout style hockey which guys like Greig and Wright did not partake in, and stuck to the system, which thus made them seem "not as dynamic". I swear to God I saw Owen Power drive the puck beneath the hash marks like a third of the game with either Greig or Wright covering for him most of the time. I can promise you if Canada played against USA and Sweden the same way they did against those teams, they'd be beat handily. Zero structure in those games. Also, Greig gets 2-3 bounces his way and he has 3 more points.

Judging anything off games against Austria and Czech is funny.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

My only red flag on Greig is how pedestrian he looked on the WJC team, granted it was a very small sample size. I would expect a D+1 player who projects as a top 6 player to stand out amongst his peers and Greig did not. You can talk about his role all you want but the skill of a future top 6 player should shine through. I’m not writing off his potential just pointing out my concern. Nothing wrong with getting a fast gritty 3rd liner that can produce offensively.

Not going to read too much into those games but I agree he was just meh for the short stint we saw him there. Greig is probably our 2nd best prospect outside the NHL now. I think to play him in the top 9 he'll need to shift to the wing. I don't see him slotting in at C over Norris, Stutzle or Pinto. I don't think there will be much consideration given to moving Pinto to the wing. He is just too solid at C.

 

[aragorn]

Agreed on Greig and Pinto. Moving Pinto to the wing would be stupid. To maximize his impact he should be playing C, no question. Posters who are putting him on the wing are being silly. Greig for sure can and should play wing.

That's exactly how I see it.

Pinto has played RW, he played RW at the WJC where he quickly became one of the best players on the US sqaud as well as the entire tournament playing against his peers. So it's not like he has never played the position or played it badly, he played it & he was great at RW in that tournament. He's also as a rookie won the 2nd line centre position twice, he quickly moved up the lineup at the end of last yr when he first arrived & won it straight out of training camp this yr beating out all other contenders. I don't see why they both can't play on the 2nd line & share the centre position when & where required.

Stutzle is not great at faceoffs, everytime they lose a faceoff they lose possession & the puck potentially for long stretches. Tkachuk is taking faceoffs for him now, why couldn't Pinto do that he's very good at it? Why couldn't Pinto match up against some big centres like Mathews when there is a difficult centre matchup for Stutzle? There is no good reason why both can't play on that 2nd line, especially when they still have White around. Giroux is the other option at RW that could help Stutzle with faceoffs but until he becomes a member of this team is just a pipe dream.

It's stupid not to consider that Stutzle still has some weaknesses & may still have some difficult matchups in the NHL & they should use every resource to minimize those inbalances. It's a strategic game & all it takes is one lost faceoff or one bad matchup between losing a game & winning a game. Stutzle is trending towards being a great player, but so was Pinto before his injury. Stutzle is dynamic & flashy while Pinto is solid, reliable, consistent & dependable & Ottawa needs both IMO.

 

[GCK]

This makes absolutely no sense. Greig struggled the same way Wright did. Those are 2 way beasts who dismantle teams with their IQ and 2 way game. They were literally playing shootout style hockey which guys like Greig and Wright did not partake in, and stuck to the system, which thus made them seem "not as dynamic". I swear to God I saw Owen Power drive the puck beneath the hash marks like a third of the game with either Greig or Wright covering for him most of the time. I can promise you if Canada played against USA and Sweden the same way they did against those teams, they'd be beat handily. Zero structure in those games. Also, Greig gets 2-3 bounces his way and he has 3 more points.

Judging anything off games against Austria and Czech is funny.

I specifically said red flag not a final judgement. I’ve made up my mind that Greig has a floor of 3rd line player, either wing or centre. The jury is still out about his offensive ceiling at the NHL level which is completely normal. CHL production is not as predictive of NHL production as non production at the CHL level is of non production at the NHL level. Greig is still my top F prospect the Sens have at the moment (I’ve graduated Pinto as he is an NHL player).

 

[GCK]

Not going to read too much into those games but I agree he was just meh for the short stint we saw him there. Greig is probably our 2nd best prospect outside the NHL now. think to play him in the top 9 he'll need to shift to the wing. I don't see him slotting in at C over Norris, Stutzle or Pinto. I don't think there will be much consideration given to moving Pinto to the wing. He is just too solid at C.

I’m interested to see Greig after a year playing centre in the AHL. At least one of Norris, Stu, Pinto or Greig will need to move to the wing. I think this needs to be made holistically rather than just for example saying something like Pinto is a little bit better at centre than Greig. If Greig is ineffective on the wing but Pinto is still extremely effective on the wing then the team might be better off taking a small hit at 3LC while potentially finding a 2RW. It’s all about what provides the me best sum of the parts rather than a player A v Player B at a certain position.

 

[God Says No]

Pinto has played RW, he played RW at the WJC where he quickly became one of the best players on the US sqaud as well as the entire tournament playing against his peers. So it's not like he has never played the position or played it badly, he played it & he was great at RW in that tournament. He's also as a rookie won the 2nd line centre position twice, he quickly moved up the lineup at the end of last yr when he first arrived & won it straight out of training camp this yr beating out all other contenders. I don't see why they both can't play on the 2nd line & share the centre position when & where required.

Stutzle is not great at faceoffs, everytime they lose a faceoff they lose possession & the puck potentially for long stretches. Tkachuk is taking faceoffs for him now, why couldn't Pinto do that he's very good at it? Why couldn't Pinto match up against some big centres like Mathews when there is a difficult centre matchup for Stutzle? There is no good reason why both can't play on that 2nd line, especially when they still have White around. Giroux is the other option at RW that could help Stutzle with faceoffs but until he becomes a member of this team is just a pipe dream.

It's stupid not to consider that Stutzle still has some weaknesses & may still have some difficult matchups in the NHL & they should use every resource to minimize those inbalances. It's a strategic game & all it takes is one lost faceoff or one bad matchup between losing a game & winning a game. Stutzle is trending towards being a great player, but so was Pinto before his injury. Stutzle is dynamic & flashy while Pinto is solid, reliable, consistent & dependable & Ottawa needs both IMO.

Because you are kneecapping two prospects by playing both on the wing. Stutzle is and will be a C with this team. It's clear now since he made the switch. Yeah his faceoffs are bad, but he's getting better and will get better. He's looked light-years better playing in the middle. There is no going back.

As for Pinto, it doesn't matter where he played in WJC. It does matter that him playing on the wing would be a waste. He's already a decent C and he gains nothing on the wing. Usually, young C's start on the wing because they are suspect defensively and can't handle the responsibility of playing down the middle. None of those applies to Pinto.

I'm pretty sure Pinto and Stutzle will not play wing again. DJ and the coaching staff has made that clear. Putting them on the wings is pretty silly.

 

[bert]

Because you are kneecapping two prospects by playing both on the wing. Stutzle is and will be a C with this team. It's clear now since he made the switch. Yeah his faceoffs are bad, but he's getting better and will get better. He's looked light-years better playing in the middle. There is no going back.

As for Pinto, it doesn't matter where he played in WJC. It does matter that him playing on the wing would be a waste. He's already a decent C and he gains nothing on the wing. Usually, young C's start on the wing because they are suspect defensively and can't handle the responsibility of playing down the middle. None of those applies to Pinto.

I'm pretty sure Pinto and Stutzle will not play wing again. DJ and the coaching staff has made that clear. Putting them on the wings is pretty silly.

You are right, they are better as centermen. However I wouldnt be opposed to them playing together. There are scenarios that are fluid enough that Pinto plays on the wing but takes defensive draws and plays center until the puck is out. Or they can switch on the fly, both have really high hockey IQ's. Its a good problem for the sens to have. Only way to figure it out is through more reps.

 

[aragorn]

Because you are kneecapping two prospects by playing both on the wing. Stutzle is and will be a C with this team. It's clear now since he made the switch. Yeah his faceoffs are bad, but he's getting better and will get better. He's looked light-years better playing in the middle. There is no going back.

As for Pinto, it doesn't matter where he played in WJC. It does matter that him playing on the wing would be a waste. He's already a decent C and he gains nothing on the wing. Usually, young C's start on the wing because they are suspect defensively and can't handle the responsibility of playing down the middle. None of those applies to Pinto.

I'm pretty sure Pinto and Stutzle will not play wing again. DJ and the coaching staff has made that clear. Putting them on the wings is pretty silly.

No it doesn't. There is no reason why they can't share the position on the same line given they are both good enough to handle the situation. If it doesn't work then fine make the change, but why be so adamant & close minded against something & not even try it? There are a few teams that have two centres playing on the same line occassionally & it seems to work fine for them like Crosby/Malkin, McDavid/Draisaitl. Or are these two teams silly too & you know better?

 

[God Says No]

No it doesn't. There is no reason why they can't share the position on the same line given they are both good enough to handle the situation. If it doesn't work then fine make the change, but why be so adamant & close minded against something & not even try it? There are a few teams that have two centres playing on the same line occassionally & it seems to work fine for them like Crosby/Malkin, McDavid/Draisaitl. Or are these two teams silly too & you know better?

I'm ok with occasional matchups to load up the lines. That's what PIT and EDM do to create massive lines. But this is different in our situation. Both Pinto and Stutz are developing. The bottom line is that they will develop better, AND they play better at C. So you want to maximize their time in the middle. That's a fact you can't refute. In any case, DJ agrees with me as he's played both players at C. I'll be surprised to see any of those guys play any wing from now on. You agree with DJ, right?

 

[GCK]

I'm ok with occasional matchups to load up the lines. That's what PIT and EDM do to create massive lines. But this is different in our situation. Both Pinto and Stutz are developing. The bottom line is that they will develop better, AND they play better at C. So you want to maximize their time in the middle. That's a fact you can't refute. In any case, DJ agrees with me as he's played both players at C. I'll be surprised to see any of those guys play any wing from now on. You agree with DJ, right?

There’s no point of reference to say Pinto plays better at centre. It might be worth trying Norris and Pinto at RW a little once the team is healthy to see what the options are. Stu should never go back to LW, completely different player from the moment he moved to centre.

 

[aragorn]

I'm ok with occasional matchups to load up the lines. That's what PIT and EDM do to create massive lines. But this is different in our situation. Both Pinto and Stutz are developing. The bottom line is that they will develop better, AND they play better at C. So you want to maximize their time in the middle. That's a fact you can't refute. In any case, DJ agrees with me as he's played both players at C. I'll be surprised to see any of those guys play any wing from now on. You agree with DJ, right?

We don't know what DJ will do until Pinto returns & then we'll see. Last time we saw Pinto he was the 2nd line centre since then things have changed they might change again once he is back. We'll see.

 

[God Says No]

We don't know what DJ will do until Pinto returns & then we'll see. Last time we saw Pinto he was the 2nd line centre since then things have changed they might change again once he is back. We'll see.

Yes we shall see, but I'm pretty sure Pinto is a C through and through.

You are right, they are better as centermen. However I wouldnt be opposed to them playing together. There are scenarios that are fluid enough that Pinto plays on the wing but takes defensive draws and plays center until the puck is out. Or they can switch on the fly, both have really high hockey IQ's. Its a good problem for the sens to have. Only way to figure it out is through more reps.

Nah, maximimize their potential and development by each playing C. That's what it should be done. It's pretty clear both are better at C.

There’s no point of reference to say Pinto plays better at centre. It might be worth trying Norris and Pinto at RW a little once the team is healthy to see what the options are. Stu should never go back to LW, completely different player from the moment he moved to centre.

Yes there is. Pinto's strengths are at C (draws, defensive awareness, forechecking). But it's hard for you to see that I understand.

 

[aragorn]

Yes we shall see, but I'm pretty sure Pinto is a C through and through.


Nah, maximimize their potential and development by each playing C. That's what it should be done. It's pretty clear both are better at C.



Yes there is. Pinto's strengths are at C (draws, defensive awareness, forechecking). But it's hard for you to see that I understand.

I think anything is possible & everything is on the table, whatever is best for the team.

 

[playasRus]

Is Greig basically Boucher's ceiling?

 

[GCK]

Yes we shall see, but I'm pretty sure Pinto is a C through and through.


Nah, maximimize their potential and development by each playing C. That's what it should be done. It's pretty clear both are better at C.



Yes there is. Pinto's strengths are at C (draws, defensive awareness, forechecking). But it's hard for you to see that I understand.

He may turn out to be as effective or more so on the wing. I’d leave him at centre but Greig may force us to move one of Norris, Pinto or Greig to the wing. What ever produces the best group of top 9 forwards is all I want. Part of it is I’m not convinced Greig can play the wing.

 

[GCK]

Is Greig basically Boucher's ceiling?

We have zero idea of Boucher’s ceiling. He really hasn’t played many games in over 2 years. There are definite red flags but Mann deserves the benefit of the doubt until we find out.

 

[Heldig]

Am I way off in thinking the Sens are close to being really Good?

I think you have tons of pieces to trade for a top veteran player or two...for example a player like Scheifele.

 

[Benttheknee]

Am I way off in thinking the Sens are close to being really Good?

I think you have tons of pieces to trade for a top veteran player or two...for example a player like Scheifele.

They will make the playoffs next year and they should compete as a solid team for the next 5-6 years. This could get derailed if those injuries are the kind that impede long term results. Look at what happened to Karlsson, now apply that to Norris, Batherson and Pinto and the team goes from very solid to good.