Player Discussion Rick Nash

[eco's bones]

retain the max..it doesnt effect us whatsoever.

I don't think the Rangers have given up on the season though--so I don't see a deal going down for a while. If we're still really struggling at the 25-30 game mark then you might try to deal him and then if you were able to accomplish that salary retention would almost certainly be a part of it. If he's dealt at the deadline though with already about 75-80% of his salary already paid--salary retention doesn't mean nearly as much.

FWIW I always looked at guys like Nash, Grabner, Holden and Desharnais as chips to play around the deadline no matter how well we were doing. But then I wasn't looking at this current team as a legit contender either and I'm pretty sure Gorton and Vigneault do (or did) see them still as a team that could win. But with the exception of Grabner (who I think the Rangers would be interested in re-signing) I don't see any of these guys on our team past this year. So if we can get something worthwhile for them I'd go for it.

I'm not with Beacon though really especially as far as moving McDonagh. Zuccarello possibly--but it would have to be something really nice--a bit more than a mid to late 1st rounder nice. I'd think about moving Smith too.

 

[Savant]

Highest bidder at deadline. Nothing else to say about Nash. It was a good run.

 

[TheTakedown]

I don't think the Rangers have given up on the season though--so I don't see a deal going down for a while. If we're still really struggling at the 25-30 game mark then you might try to deal him and then if you were able to accomplish that salary retention would almost certainly be a part of it. If he's dealt at the deadline though with already about 75-80% of his salary already paid--salary retention doesn't mean nearly as much.

FWIW I always looked at guys like Nash, Grabner, Holden and Desharnais as chips to play around the deadline no matter how well we were doing. But then I wasn't looking at this current team as a legit contender either and I'm pretty sure Gorton and Vigneault do (or did) see them still as a team that could win. But with the exception of Grabner (who I think the Rangers would be interested in re-signing) I don't see any of these guys on our team past this year. So if we can get something worthwhile for them I'd go for it.

I'm not with Beacon though really especially as far as moving McDonagh. Zuccarello possibly--but it would have to be something really nice--a bit more than a mid to late 1st rounder nice. I'd think about moving Smith too.

No way... Everything we are reading indicates that the Rangers are going to sell at the deadline unless they are a major contending team (hint: they are not). They have kids that can take on smaller roles, and the guys that they CAN sell will bring back a big haul

 

[eco's bones]

No way... Everything we are reading indicates that the Rangers are going to sell at the deadline unless they are a major contending team (hint: they are not). They have kids that can take on smaller roles, and the guys that they CAN sell will bring back a big haul

How Gorton and Vigneault look at the team is one thing. From what I've seen so far we're going to struggle and by the deadline I suspect we'll be clinging at best to the last spot and maybe not even that so moving players is not necessarily going to bother me. I don't know if we'll get a first for Nash--depends again on how he's playing and who else is available. We might get more for Grabner than we do for him. Holden and Desharnais IMO are not going to bring back a lot either. So we could move all these guys and just end up with a few 2nd and 3rd rounders/decent prospects or younger fill-ins. If we are struggling I'd move them anyway though. Get something for them.

I'm hanging on to McDonagh and Zuccarello unless someone overpays. Smith needs to pick it up. Staal gets bought out next year. Going back to McDonagh and Zuccarello for a moment--there is no hurry to move them. They're still signed through 18-19 and can be dealt at next year's (the 2019) deadline--both of them should bring in huge hauls then if that were to happen. For teams gearing up for the playoffs adding either would be a really big deal. We don't have to do anything with either of them right away.

 

[will1066]

If we get a first rounder for Nash, we would have fleeced the other team. Maybe a team would be in a situation of needing a package of Nash/Holden/Grabs/or DD, but I see a pick (lower round probably) going the other way in any package.

 

[Larrybiv]

How Gorton and Vigneault look at the team is one thing. From what I've seen so far we're going to struggle and by the deadline I suspect we'll be clinging at best to the last spot and maybe not even that so moving players is not necessarily going to bother me. I don't know if we'll get a first for Nash--depends again on how he's playing and who else is available. We might get more for Grabner than we do for him. Holden and Desharnais IMO are not going to bring back a lot either. So we could move all these guys and just end up with a few 2nd and 3rd rounders/decent prospects or younger fill-ins. If we are struggling I'd move them anyway though. Get something for them.

I'm hanging on to McDonagh and Zuccarello unless someone overpays. Smith needs to pick it up. Staal gets bought out next year. Going back to McDonagh and Zuccarello for a moment--there is no hurry to move them. They're still signed through 18-19 and can be dealt at next year's (the 2019) deadline--both of them should bring in huge hauls then if that were to happen. For teams gearing up for the playoffs adding either would be a really big deal. We don't have to do anything with either of them right away.

I think overpayment is what they should be going for here, and by them having that extra year on their VERY REASONABLE contracts, it just might get them that "extra pick or "A" prospect" in each deal. It would fast forward what they really should do. That would be overpayment, but would also be giving up on this season. Their defense is suspect WITH McD, imagine w/o him.
Just for the record, I want Zuccha to retire a Ranger, he wears that jersey so proudly and is everything that should represent being a "Ranger'. McD is a goner, and he will warrant an overpayment to cover for his first "hometown discount" and he is wearing that letter, it's like the kiss of death.

 

[Larrybiv]

Sorry, this is a Nash thread and I broke the rule! (Slaps his own hand) Nash has had amazing efforts in these first 11 games or so......just not getting on the scoreboard as much as one would think. Always been a streaky goalscorer, so I'm sure he will get hot soon......he simply looks like he doesn't belong, like it's not in the cards for him to be here much longer.
If Colorado doesn't want Duchene, give em' Nasher (retain a little salary) and throw in a pick.

 

[will1066]

Sooner or later, you have to think about getting him out of the top six and put him in a true two-way role.

 

[eco's bones]

Sorry, this is a Nash thread and I broke the rule! (Slaps his own hand) Nash has had amazing efforts in these first 11 games or so......just not getting on the scoreboard as much as one would think. Always been a streaky goalscorer, so I'm sure he will get hot soon......he simply looks like he doesn't belong, like it's not in the cards for him to be here much longer.
If Colorado doesn't want Duchene, give em' Nasher (retain a little salary) and throw in a pick.

An old and declining player with a huge and expiring contract isn't going to get you anywhere near Duchene. He does absolutely nothing for the Avalance moving their team forward. The Avalanche are going to want younger, cheaper assets whether players, prospects or picks and they want them in multiples. Whoever does get Duchene is probably going to be overpaying in that regard. Joe Sakic has turned down a lot of offers already. I wouldn't think he'd have any interest in Rick Nash.

 

[McRanger]

Just enough people ?

3-4 max. I’m one of them , and you responded to another one of them.

Lundqvist has gotten ripped more in Vezina seasons than Rick Nash has in the playoffs.

I’ve seen the fickle Ranger fan base devour and spit out players who had better resumés and let the team down less when they were really needed than Rick Nash has.

I mean this whole heartedly when I say I’ve never seen a player defended and reimagined then Rick Nash in all my years of fandom.

My theory is that his “fancy stats” are significantly inflated due to his high muffin shot total since most of those amateur analytics models are in their infancy.

He’s not the only player whose either defended or thrown under the bus based on non observed results stats floating around the web

Otherwise , I’m not sure what the deal with he and the fan base is.

The deal is simple. A poster will enter a Nash thread with the plan of commenting on his inability to finish or to complain about one of his faults and before they've left they've had to explain that Nash didn't score yesterday because the Rangers didn't have a game and that he can't possibly be the zodiac killer because he is too young.

The arguments are so idiotic and repetitive and repetitive and repetitive that it makes people who don't even like Nash end up defending him. That is the difference between people who are rationally critical of Nash, like Edge, and people who are raving balls of irritation. For the record I don't consider you either.

Also its comical you should compare him to Lundqvist, with whom we have the exact opposite problem. You have your Hank bashers but the loudest voices always seem to come from people so angrily and nonsensically defending him for every little thing that it leads to people who revere Hank actually arguing against him.

It reminds me of the judge from A Few Good Men, being so flustered with the stupidity of the defense that he ends up yelling them down. The whole process is almost impressively counter productive.

 

[NickyFotiu]

I think Nash will be sold as a rental this season because of his age/contract/production but its too early to say we will be selling anyone else. We are only around 3 points out of the playoffs at this point in time. I think we have to see how close we are in the later months.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

The deal is simple. A poster will enter a Nash thread with the plan of commenting on his inability to finish or to complain about one of his faults and before they've left they've had to explain that Nash didn't score yesterday because the Rangers didn't have a game and that he can't possibly be the zodiac killer because he is too young.

The arguments are so idiotic and repetitive and repetitive and repetitive that it makes people who don't even like Nash end up defending him. That is the difference between people who are rationally critical of Nash, like Edge, and people who are raving balls of irritation. For the record I don't consider you either.

Also its comical you should compare him to Lundqvist, with whom we have the exact opposite problem. You have your Hank bashers but the loudest voices always seem to come from people so angrily and nonsensically defending him for every little thing that it leads to people who revere Hank actually arguing against him.

It reminds me of the judge from A Few Good Men, being so flustered with the stupidity of the defense that he ends up yelling them down. The whole process is almost impressively counter productive.

I agree. The excuse makers are indeed way more creative.

 

[Chimpradamus]

Like you've already mentioned, the biggest problem for Nash is that his shot is garbage and that he can never lift the puck, in any situation. All his goals are at ice level with preferably an open net. He's stuck in a decade where he isn't effective and he can look as cool as he want, as long as he fires logo shots or slides the puck into the pads of the general butterfly goalie while looking mighty impressive with his power moves.

I don't get it. How hard can it be to practice to lift a f***ing puck at least once in 50 shots? The only hope is that some desperate up and coming playoff team will trade hard for the illusion that he's still a first line winger. Or, if the Rangers could re-sign him for about $4-5m or so as a second-third line tweener with a solid two way game, that isn't relied upon whatsoever to bring anything offensively.

If you can't trade him and he won't re-sign for less than $5m, dump him. What he brings is useless for anything above that and even $5m is stretching it, really. He's a passenger on this team with a name and an old reputation alot bigger than his actual game. What an unique story on the stretching NYR resort franchise that is creeping back.

 

[Ori]

But Nash is thankful @Chimp - nothing but first class franchise to him and his family - it sounds like a resort.

 

[haveandare]

Like you've already mentioned, the biggest problem for Nash is that his shot is garbage and that he can never lift the puck, in any situation. All his goals are at ice level with preferably an open net. He's stuck in a decade where he isn't effective and he can look as cool as he want, as long as he fires logo shots or slides the puck into the pads of the general butterfly goalie while looking mighty impressive with his power moves.

I don't get it. How hard can it be to practice to lift a ****ing puck at least once in 50 shots? The only hope is that some desperate up and coming playoff team will trade hard for the illusion that he's still a first line winger. Or, if the Rangers could re-sign him for about $4-5m or so as a second-third line tweener with a solid two way game, that isn't relied upon whatsoever to bring anything offensively.

If you can't trade him and he won't re-sign for less than $5m, dump him. What he brings is useless for anything above that and even $5m is stretching it, really. He's a passenger on this team with a name and an old reputation alot bigger than his actual game. What an unique story on the stretching NYR resort franchise that is creeping back.

There's no way he's incapable of lifting the puck, it's not that hard a thing to do. I hesitate to even call it a skill, it takes like an afternoon in your backyard with a bag of pucks to figure it out. Obviously, doing it at NHL speed in NHL coverage is a lot different, but we're talking about a 1OA player with over 400 goals here. He can lift the puck.

The question is why isn't he ever lifting it? And beyond that how or why does nobody, like the coach for example, point out to him that it's 2017 and most goalies are huge and play butterfly now? He used to get away with scoring a lot of goals on dekes in tight but defenseman are a lot faster now league wide and Nash doesn't have the hands he used to when we was scoring those types of goals with regularity.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Despite Nash being a black hole offensively right now, I have no problem keeping him in the top 6 if just for the fact he's the team's best defensive forward (which says more about the team than Nash's defensive abilities). I think too many people are shoehorning top 6 roles into being almost strictly offense. But those top 6 forwards are usually going against the oppositions top 6 forwards, and stopping them has to be considered as well.

 

[Matz03]

I think Nash will be sold as a rental this season because of his age/contract/production but its too early to say we will be selling anyone else. We are only around 3 points out of the playoffs at this point in time. I think we have to see how close we are in the later months.

We can not wait to see in the later months, that would be a terrible mistake. Nash, Grabner, Holden, DD, and every pending UFA we should be listening on and planning to move. If this team stumbles into the playoffs without these guys, then good for them but it would be a horrible mistake and mismanagement of assets to keep them. We're now much higher on the waiver wire priority, look to pick off some young guys if someone interesting makes the wire too, but offload pending UFA's at the deadline, it must be the plan.

 

[NickyFotiu]

We can not wait to see in the later months, that would be a terrible mistake. Nash, Grabner, Holden, DD, and every pending UFA we should be listening on and planning to move. If this team stumbles into the playoffs without these guys, then good for them but it would be a horrible mistake and mismanagement of assets to keep them. We're now much higher on the waiver wire priority, look to pick off some young guys if someone interesting makes the wire too, but offload pending UFA's at the deadline, it must be the plan.

I'm sure we are willing to listen on all 4 of the players you mentioned but their price right now may not be as high as near the trade deadline.

 

[Matz03]

I'm sure we are willing to listen on all 4 of the players you mentioned but their price right now may not be as high as near the trade deadline.

Near or right at deadline is always when the premium is paid, I have no issues with waiting. No issue they didn't give away a Holden for peanuts earlier, have to maximize returns.

 

[QJL]

Regardless of how this team is performing at the deadline we should deal Nash.

 

[trilobyte]

I think there will be some kind of a deal and roster change. This team is too up and down. The players just do not seem to be able to play to their abilities often enough. Some will say that the Rangers promote a 'country club' style of workplace. I am not saying that that is true or not true. I am looking at what I see on the ice. The fact that I find it completely possible for the Rangers to come out flat tomorrow and blow a game against the Panthers, after just proving how well they can play, tells me there is a need to shake the team up a bit. Maybe, just maybe, they have turned a corner. This Rangers fan is waiting for evidence, and that means more games.
I find it annoying the way things have become, where everything is centred around the trade deadline. Don't worry, I know the purported reasons for that, in that your 'assets' have a wider market and sell at their highest. Yeah, yeah, so I hear.
I hope to see some movement of a couple of Rangers players well before the TDL. What is the point of treading water for a full stretch of October to April. Really, nothing can be done with a suitable trading partner between those markers? I'm not talking about knee-jerk trades for the sake of trading, but something that could move the team forward.
A year ago and more I thought Nash would be moved. I don't dislike him but I like the Rangers and that would be so good for the team. Not surprisingly, there are no illusions in the front offices of the league about what he brings. He does bring something, find who wants it.

 

[RGY]

Need more.

 

[eco's bones]

Like you've already mentioned, the biggest problem for Nash is that his shot is garbage and that he can never lift the puck, in any situation. All his goals are at ice level with preferably an open net. He's stuck in a decade where he isn't effective and he can look as cool as he want, as long as he fires logo shots or slides the puck into the pads of the general butterfly goalie while looking mighty impressive with his power moves.

I don't get it. How hard can it be to practice to lift a ****ing puck at least once in 50 shots? The only hope is that some desperate up and coming playoff team will trade hard for the illusion that he's still a first line winger. Or, if the Rangers could re-sign him for about $4-5m or so as a second-third line tweener with a solid two way game, that isn't relied upon whatsoever to bring anything offensively.

If you can't trade him and he won't re-sign for less than $5m, dump him. What he brings is useless for anything above that and even $5m is stretching it, really. He's a passenger on this team with a name and an old reputation alot bigger than his actual game. What an unique story on the stretching NYR resort franchise that is creeping back.

That's still way too much money. His last 2 seasons +:

60GP-15G-21A-36Pts
67GP-23G-15A-38Pts
14GP--2G---2A--4Pts

His numbers aren't great for a top 6 forward and he's getting older. He's never really come through for the team when the chips were down.

I wouldn't give a guy who is going to be 34 years old next year and who is definitely on the wrong side of his prime years $4.5 mil a year. I wouldn't give much term either. IMO--traded or not this should be his last year as a Ranger. He's not a solution going forward. His numbers don't justify more than $3--$3.5. If we can walk away from better players like Stepan and Brassard we can walk away from Nash. If we can contemplate trading Zuccarello we can contemplate walking away from Nash. When I think of the better Ranger forwards I don't think of Nash--I think of Zucc, Zibanejad, Miller, Kreider and Buchnevich and I like Hayes better too.

 

[Crease]

I'm torn between feeling bad for him in his obvious decline and never forgiving him for that Cup run performance.

 

[Fvital92]

I'm torn between feeling bad for him in his obvious decline and never forgiving him for that Cup run performance.

I feel bad, he always gave effort and you can see he feels bad for his lack of production.