Return for Matthews in a trade

[Americanadian]

Indeed, we'd start getting closer to Eichel territory.

If you're paying Matthews 13-14M to be a point per game 40 goal scorer you're in trouble.

 

[slappipappi]

If he doesn’t verbally agree to a contract extension before July 1st then you have to trade him.

You cannot let Matthews’ NMC kick in and walk him to UFA.

Arizona makes a big splash after the Tempe arena deal falls apart. Arizona fans are excited to get a home grown superstar and now the Tempe deal is in the back of their mind?

I want Cooley + Keller as a starting point.

The problem with trading him before July 1 is that he cannot agree to an extension until July 1. Since no team will give up those types of assets for a rental, Matthews controls where he is going regardless on the date.

 

[Americanadian]

But does Matthews with only 1 year get us that? Not so sure. Not many teams want to risk losing a top young player for a guy who might not stick around. Matthews controls the cards here.

It depends where the team is. That's why I think Dallas is a strong trade partner.

1. Assuming they lose to VGK they are a strong team who is right on the edge of a cup and needs a push.

2. It is a no income tax state so they can pay Matthews less on the cap on his next contract than Toronto would have to.

3. Matthews' is the most prominent (maybe the only?) hispanic player in the NHL and Texas has the 2nd highest hispanic population per capita in the US only behind New Mexico which doesn't have an NHL team. This would be a great marketing opportunity for the Stars.

 

[Zero1]

The problem with trading him before July 1 is that he cannot agree to an extension until July 1. Since no team will give up those types of assets for a rental, Matthews controls where he is going regardless on the date.

Yeah… Matthews has all the leverage any way you look at it.

He’s either getting a stupid contract to stay here or he’s handpicking where he gets traded to and the Leafs will get pennies on the dollar.

 

[NVious]

Those Leafs teams couldn't even make the playoffs, save for the fluke run they had in the shortened season. Yes, it's a lot worse.

Well since you guys keep setting me up for the joke I'm gona keep making it (cuz it's true).

What's the difference between the Leafs being in the playoffs with the core 4 and previously when we weren't in it?

About a week.

The whole point of making the playoffs is to make runs. Obviously we can't win the cup or be in the finals or ECF every year, but 6 1st round humiliations 1 2nd round ownage is "making the playoffs" to you?

To me it's not, I don't see any progress the last 7 years tbh, but to each their own. Not only is there no progress, but we have not only the 7 years of failure, but it costs us 40+ million to get rekt and humiliated every year.

I'm not saying all of the core must go, but my opinion is that there are only two options;
1.They all take haircuts; Matthews at 10-11 at most, Marner at 9-10 at most, Nylander at 7-8 at most
2.They are put on the market and unless we are getting horrendous offers (which we won't seeing what lesser players have returned and how dumb GMs are), we trade 1 or all of them.

I just don't get people's attachment to these guys, big deal even if we finished 9-13th, our season didn't end May 1, it ended April 15

 

[All Mod Cons]

Wow.

You guys realize it can take over a decade to get a no.1 C like Matthews ever again.

His supporting cast is a bunch of losers from the players to the coach to the GM. You guys have no idea what you're doing. Go enjoy the weather, you're losing it trading Matthews.

Agreed. You obviously don't trade Matthews unless you absolutely have to. I think most would agree.

 

[ULF_55]

Yeah… Matthews has all the leverage any way you look at it.

He’s either getting a stupid contract to stay here or he’s handpicking where he gets traded to and the Leafs will get pennies on the dollar.

If Matthews won't extend, the Leafs just let him play.

He then has the year to prove he's fully healthy, and that he won't have another down year, and that he's willing to risk his future contract by playing out the season with no future guaranteed money.

Team then has 12 million in space to re-allocate in 2024-2025 season.

 

[thewave]

Yeah… Matthews has all the leverage any way you look at it.

He’s either getting a stupid contract to stay here or he’s handpicking where he gets traded to and the Leafs will get pennies on the dollar.

Or he plays them and walks away, don't forget that one.

Just look at our team turnover, Dubas was a freaking Joke and if Shanny and the board couldn't tell they are all a bunch of jokes. My position on the fraudster has been the same since day 1 of his hiring.

You can't build a winner when you're just spending all your draft picks, and trading off half the team every year. It was a hot steaming pile the whole time, MTL should have been it, it was cooked and no they are going to keep it going, even right now they say they were going to keep going with him until he was finally fired for recent shit.

MADNESS.

 

[authentic]

If you're paying Matthews 13-14M to be a point per game 40 goal scorer you're in trouble.

It's hilarious that this is what people think he's going to be going forward. Just watch and see how funny it's going to look.

 

[Arzak]

If Matthews won't extend, the Leafs just let him play.

He then has the year to prove he's fully healthy, and that he won't have another down year, and that he's willing to risk his future contract by playing out the season with no future guaranteed money.

Team then has 12 million in space to re-allocate in 2024-2025 season.

Your suggestion is to let his NMC clause kick in, let them play and negotiate with trio on NMC/NTCs?

You can't ignore his NMC or the fact that it aligns with Marners. If you do, it would be correct to state the conditions for your imaginary scenario.

If he had no NMC, If Marner was signed for longer and or without NMC, if JT was movable.

 

[Funk21]

Exactly.

The bruins are a contender every season because management insists they take team friendly deals. If not they get shipped out. End of story.

it’s time for the leafs to stop coddling players.

This, based on a cap projection of 87 million next year per cap friendly if we look at AM % of the cap it was 14.64% last time he signed which means his next contract should be 12.7 million.

Does AM deserve that, not at all but if Management has any sense of backbone you tell his agent 12.7 x 8 years. If you won’t sign then we are moving on. Simple as that. I’d prefer we move him out because I think this team needs a serious retool and I’m just not a big AM fan and his indifference to losing. I want players who hate losing and will do everything to win. I have never seen that in Matthews.

 

[ULF_55]

Your suggestion is to let his NMC clause kick in, let them play and negotiate with trio on NMC/NTCs?

You can't ignore his NMC or the fact that it aligns with Marners. If you do, it would be correct to state the conditions for your imaginary scenario.

If he had no NMC, If Marner was signed for longer and or without NMC, if JT was movable.

I'd be fine if they made some trades while they still can.

marner and Matthews are the only 2 that have to be traded before July 1st.

Nylander can be traded anytime.

10 team NTC, leaves 21 teams, and look at his cost after bonus!

No rush on Nylander, but the other two are problematic.

 

[authentic]

Well since you guys keep setting me up for the joke I'm gona keep making it (cuz it's true).

What's the difference between the Leafs being in the playoffs with the core 4 and previously when we weren't in it?

About a week.

The whole point of making the playoffs is to make runs. Obviously we can't win the cup or be in the finals or ECF every year, but 6 1st round humiliations 1 2nd round ownage is "making the playoffs" to you?

To me it's not, I don't see any progress the last 7 years tbh, but to each their own. Not only is there no progress, but we have not only the 7 years of failure, but it costs us 40+ million to get rekt and humiliated every year.

I'm not saying all of the core must go, but my opinion is that there are only two options;
1.They all take haircuts; Matthews at 10-11 at most, Marner at 9-10 at most, Nylander at 7-8 at most
2.They are put on the market and unless we are getting horrendous offers (which we won't seeing what lesser players have returned and how dumb GMs are), we trade 1 or all of them.

I just don't get people's attachment to these guys, big deal even if we finished 9-13th, our season didn't end May 1, it ended April 15

Losing to Washington and Boston as rookies and sophomores I wouldn't include in the 1st round humilations.

I think based on how we've played the past 3 series, all against teams that went to or are currently going to the Cup finals, this is not a team I would be comfortable getting rid of the core players.

Our core massively outplayed Tampa Bay's two series in a row. They all couldn't score against Florida but the way Bobrovsky is playing against Carolina it doesn't look like that is really the fault of the players as much as it's an otherwordly performance by a two time Vezina trophy winner.

We had more scoring chances that Florida in that series and lost 4 out of 5 really close games. I think it's delusional to think we're getting any type of return here for 1 season of Matthews that will better our team here.

 

[HandshakeLineRespect]

If Matthews won't extend, the Leafs just let him play.

He then has the year to prove he's fully healthy, and that he won't have another down year, and that he's willing to risk his future contract by playing out the season with no future guaranteed money.

Team then has 12 million in space to re-allocate in 2024-2025 season.

Let him walk for nothing eh. Can it get any dumber than that?

 

[Americanadian]

It's hilarious that this is what people think he's going to be going forward. Just watch and see how funny it's going to look.

I am not saying he will be Eichel. I am saying there's a decent chance if he gets surgery this summer that he will never be the same goal scorer he once was.

 

[ULF_55]

Let him walk for nothing eh. Can it get any dumber than that?

What is your option?

He cannot be signed until July 1st., and at that point he is under complete control.

Leafs have to pay him whether they play him or not, and he doesn't have to play anywhere other than Toronto.

Reality.

Of course the only guarantee Leafs have is the ability to trade him for whatever they can before July 1st.

 

[Zur En Arrh]

Our only real option is to try and sign him July 1. Give him a fair deal FOR 8 years and if he won't sign it then throughout the year villainize him in the media and if he leaves we will make what happened to Tavares look like child's play. Immediately retire a 34 form our history that's not him. Sell all leftover of his jerseys and Jersey plates as kindling for literally a dollar. Just go full pety for the next twenty years, also make him aware of what's coming. He wanted to strong arm us on his first deal out of rfa...ok , our turn..

 

[authentic]

I am not saying he will be Eichel. I am saying there's a decent chance if he gets surgery this summer that he will never be the same goal scorer he once was.

That's fine, who scores goals anywhere close that level while providing the two-way game he does? No one's even close. I can't think of a perennial 40 goal scorer that has the all around game he does let alone anywhere close to 60 goal scorer.

I don't think he gets 60 again but also think 50+ is easily attainable with an even better two-way game going forward. If he can just remain healthy he's providing us with a better chance to win than just about any other individual player in the league who isn't a hot goalie, which could be Woll next or Samsonov next season. You don't get rid of players of his caliber especially when we have a player like Knies coming up who could work wonders with a healthy Matthews next season.

 

[thewave]

Let him walk for nothing eh. Can it get any dumber than that?

We did it routinely under Nonis and Burke. I was basically throwing a fit with every player that walked for nothing. Terrible organization that way. Dumb as nails.

 

[TorMapleJays]

Imagine if Marner, Matthews, and Tavares get traded. Throw in Murray, and we could get 5 high calibre NHL players and a bunch of prospects and first round picks.

The possibilities are endless.

I jjst hope we go towards a Boston model of skilled tough to play against teams who work hard and hate to lose.

We have the assets to build any team we want and can get quality in return.

 

[Stephen]

If Matthews won't extend, the Leafs just let him play.

He then has the year to prove he's fully healthy, and that he won't have another down year, and that he's willing to risk his future contract by playing out the season with no future guaranteed money.

Team then has 12 million in space to re-allocate in 2024-2025 season.

Sort of agree with you here Ulf.

There is risk for Auston Matthews in not locking in a contract as well. Lingering wrist issues. Does he need surgery this offseason? Will his regular season numbers rebound? What is the chatter around the league about his playoff abilities? So there is a mutual benefit in locking in a contract that is palatable too both sides. Matthews didn't have a playoff breakthrough and he's not piling on the production.

 

[thewave]

Sort of agree with you here Ulf.

There is risk for Auston Matthews in not locking in a contract as well. Lingering wrist issues. Does he need surgery this offseason? Will his regular season numbers rebound? What is the chatter around the league about his playoff abilities? So there is a mutual benefit in locking in a contract that is palatable too both sides. Matthews didn't have a playoff breakthrough and he's not piling on the production.

That's a really big risk. A lot of people don't see him as being a guy that wants to stick around. Why else take the 5 year deal to get going. I don't know how this team could even manage Matthews walking, do you remember Kawhi? That was basketball, this would be 3 fold.

Not good. Job ending for Shanahan as well.

 

[Zero1]

He then has the year to prove he's fully healthy, and that he won't have another down year, and that he's willing to risk his future contract by playing out the season with no future guaranteed money.

Team then has 12 million in space to re-allocate in 2024-2025 season.

There’s no way man. You can’t just let Matthews walk.

Giroux as a rental returned Tippett + 1st + 3rd. Matthews even as a rental should return more than Giroux.

Leafs probably won’t get the full value of Matthews in any deal but they need assets to restock the cupboards. They’ve lost so much draft capital going all-in almost every year.

 

[Americanadian]

That's fine, who scores goals anywhere close that level while providing the two-way game he does? No one's even close. I can't think of a perennial 40 goal scorer that has the all around game he does let alone anywhere close to 60 goal scorer.

I don't think he gets 60 again but also think 50+ is easily attainable with an even better two-way game going forward. If he can just remain healthy he's providing us with a better chance to win than just about any other individual player in the league who isn't a hot goalie, which could be Woll next or Samsonov next season. You don't get rid of players of his caliber especially when we have a player like Knies coming up who could work wonders with a healthy Matthews next season.

That's fine for you to believe he is that player but there's a real chance that last year was his career year offensively and defensively. He obviously saw a dip in his counting stats this year but he also got worse defensively. No matter which metric you want to use for defensive impact (GAR, xGAR, GSVA) he was worse this year than the past 3 seasons. There's a chance it was a down year and he can get better defensively as you mentioned. There's also a chance his injury history is catching up with him and he is a lesser player than he was the last 3 seasons.

 

[Stephen]

There’s no way man. You can’t just let Matthews walk.

Giroux as a rental returned Tippett + 1st + 3rd. Matthews even as a rental should return more than Giroux.

Leafs probably won’t get the full value of Matthews in any deal but they need assets to restock the cupboards. They’ve lost so much draft capital going all-in almost every year.

I don't think Matthews would be coming off the lot in mint condition though. That's why there's mutual benefit in sticking together. There's pressure on both sides. What other team is going to cleave $13 + million from their salary structure for Matthews without feeling risk?

Leafs need to play this out with goodwill, open communication but you can't panic.