Resigning Strome or Copp? (Doubt team can resign both)

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Resigning Strome or Copp? (Doubt team can resign both)

  • Strome

    Votes: 11 7.3%
  • Copp

    Votes: 139 92.7%

  • Total voters
    150
I have no faith in this team making the right selection in the draft when it comes to centers. In 2010 we needed centers, drafted McIlrath instead of Tarasenko.

2017, Lias Andersson with Necas, Suzuki on the board

2021 we could have selected a center, grabbed Othmann (which may very well end up working out.)

Who’s to say we would have selected Zegras or Lundell? This organization had plenty of draft capital (or, actual players such as Buchnevich, etc) to move up had they thought there was a game breaking talent available.

To be honest, I can see Kakko developing into a shutdown center in 2-3 years if he can improve his skating and settle into the NHL game. The defensive instincts are there.

On this thread - Ryan Strome isn’t someone you can win a cup with in my mind. Takes lazy penalties, slams his stick against the boards, glides, etc.
If you believe Edge (I do), the Rangers had interest in Zegras and were actively trying to trade Buch to Edmonton for the 8th overall pick. That deal never materialized, and the rest is history. If we had not won the lottery that year, it's impossible to say what the Rangers would have done. Maybe we don't trade for Trouba and we instead draft Seider. Regardless, Zegras was reportedly high on their list. We know from Edge that players like Glass, Pettersson and Keller were also high on their list in recent years. Glass hasn't worked out, and Keller isn't a center, but the problem isn't from a lack of trying.

We want the team to select BPA and, even though it hasn't worked out that way thus far, the players we took were the consensus BPA at the time. They just happened to be wingers instead of centers.
 
Ryan Strome sucks


THANK YOU and where the hell was everyone when I was saying this and trying to move the guy for the past 2.5 yrs?

My hope in bringing in Copp before the deadline was that it would allow us to ditch Strome this summer. Then next year we slide Chytil into that 2C spot with Panarin and Kakko while letting Copp center a really strong 3rd line with Goodrow and Blais. Then eventually Goodrow can slide down to the 4th line and Othmann can step into that 3LW spot. Still hoping it works out that way.

If Chytil can't embrace that spot, Copp is perfectly serviceable as a 2C until we can properly address it and he fits into a 3C role far better than Strome does.
some variation of mostly this^. Chytil, esp w/quality Ws, is part of the solution, not part of the prob
That’s not enough of a sample size. He has played less than one game at center as a Ranger. This is a big decision that they have to make. Can’t just leap into it and throw Strome away.

It is not an easy choice. Strome has his warts but we know what he is. We know he can center a Hart candidate.
It's an easy choice. Strome sucks. Nominally productive net + at best. Does not justify $$ which is now scarce. Give up, let him go.
the bolded above is bullshit....the hart candidate should make the players around him better, we shouldnt need to strome for panarin to put up points.....crosby has played with terrible linemates for years at times
this^
I'm not a Strome hatin' sumbitch like a lot of my fellow fans, but... unless he's a playoff monster this year... gotta go, gotta go.
I kind of wish they had traded him at the Deadline, but I understand how they sort of COULDN'T.
NO, bs, they could have/should have, and done so even before the TD. The prob here is Rangers try to have their cake and eat it too, by hoping to max returns on decent players, but they drive the value down by waiting til the last minute and there is no term as any meat on the bone for a suitor.

Again, bern is right, NYR mgmt here is wrong.
I'm pretty confident one or the other will be a NYR next season. It's both that would make it impossible, unless they jettisoned Nemeth, Blais, and forced Kakko to sign tiny bridge deal or qualifier. And that would look kind of stupid right after dealing Buchnevich since he 'wouldn't fit'
I doubt either can be signed. MAYBE if you don't do 5 McKeggs or so, MAYBE you can scrape up for Capp at a loss of depth. We need to lose all of Strome + Nemeth + Hajek + Geo + recover Hank 1.5 buyout for approx 11m + to offset new Zib + Fox $$ and that is WITHOUT substituting other player salaries for those.
If panarin is that adamant that he plays with Strome then he’s part of the problem

Idk how you can defend the guy, stupid penalties, lack of awareness in the d zone, over passing, the list goes on and on

If panarin wants to play with his buddies so bad he should have thought about that before signing here, he’s an unbelievable player but he needs ti make the players around him better and he does at times. But he’s been a dumpster fire this year at times. Strome has been infinitely worse
Agree
This Panarin/Strome chemistry thing must be more off ice at this point, because I just don’t see it on ice. More often than not it’s just waiting for Panarin to make a brilliant play and Strome is along for the ride. Strome has turned into a glider like he’s a high skill player who can get away with it, but he’s not. He doesn’t move his feet, and that is part of the reason he takes a lot of stick infraction penalties. In fact, the Panarin/Strome partnership seems to be more of a detriment to the team now. Rip the Strome bandaid off and use the cap on someone else like Copp. Panarin will get over it and still love to play hockey…and most importantly, as you’ve mentioned, make whoever is on his line a better player.
They work together and apart but not enough to justify $$ or denying mins to Chytil Krav and previously, Barron
so, the 2 scenarios are similar, difference is we NEED Stromer right now. Might not NEED or WANT 1, and possible BOTH.
NO WE DO NOT
If you believe Edge (I do), the Rangers had interest in Zegras and were actively trying to trade Buch to Edmonton for the 8th overall pick. That deal never materialized, and the rest is history. If we had not won the lottery that year, it's impossible to say what the Rangers would have done. Maybe we don't trade for Trouba and we instead draft Seider. Regardless, Zegras was reportedly high on their list. We know from Edge that players like Glass, Pettersson and Keller were also high on their list in recent years. Glass hasn't worked out, and Keller isn't a center, but the problem isn't from a lack of trying.

We want the team to select BPA and, even though it hasn't worked out that way thus far, the players we took were the consensus BPA at the time. They just happened to be wingers instead of centers.
See above, prob is NYR wants its cake and eat it too, holds on to guys too long, trave value diminished, return is less/draft upgrade situation worsened, self inflicted
 
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I want an apology from anyone --- you know who you are -- who excoriated me for speaking vs win now, etc and didn't want to deal vets in general or Strome in particular.

I was correct falsely villainized as wrong!
 
@bernmeister not saying Strome is worth the money. I’m saying we don’t know if Copp is worth it yet either.

I’m perfectly fine with the answer being “Neither” if Copp doesn’t show he can play 2C. He isn’t even playing center yet.
 
Neither!!! if Copp wants any more than 4.5X 4 years bye bye. Sam Bennett deal should be what is offered .
Strome you've done pretty well here thanks but gotta move on!

Off topic: I wanted Sam Bennett here so much when he was on the outs in Calgary. Love the way he plays.

On topic: I like the versatility of Copp and just overall more aggressive play.
 
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@bernmeister not saying Strome is worth the money. I’m saying we don’t know if Copp is worth it yet either.

I’m perfectly fine with the answer being “Neither” if Copp doesn’t show he can play 2C. He isn’t even playing center yet.
I was responding to your " Can’t just leap into it and throw Strome away." comment. That appears to be saying we can't just walk away from Strome. I disagree. Esp if he is not worth the $$.

As to Copp, my beef is not with the player, but one scenario aside, I do not see how we can sign him; hence, this may well be waste of picks. As you know I prefer we max our picks and if prudent/necessary, not a good selection, spend picks to upgrade, not an option, trade for better picks following year.
Given rigidity of roster and cap, only see MAYBE if he gives us a bit of a break and we don't sign like 4-5 McKeggs to = his $. But how smart is that?
What's done is done.
 
@bernmeister not saying Strome is worth the money. I’m saying we don’t know if Copp is worth it yet either.

I’m perfectly fine with the answer being “Neither” if Copp doesn’t show he can play 2C. He isn’t even playing center yet.

A lot of GMs subscribe to the sunk cost fallacy, however. That NYR moved two good picks to get him here might weigh on the decision, even if it shouldn't. Same situation as Brendan Smith.
 
Pretty much ready to move on from Strome. Copp’s play down the stretch and in the playoffs is going to dictate whether we try to re-sign him. Keeping in mind he’ll be a UFA and we’re a bit short on cap space he might end up with a better deal somewhere else.
 
I actually do think Strome evolved into a much better hockey player under David Quinn. This year, under Gallant, he's gone back to the game that earned him 4th line duties in other clubs. Really is a shame to see how much he's regressed.

I don't mind keeping him this year at the TDL - I don't like rewarding regular season success by trading away core pieces, it sends the wrong message to the players on the team and makes the club a less desirable place for free agents to sign.

But if Strome isn't a monster in the playoffs, he's gotta go. If he's even just "good" he's gotta go.

He just doesn't have much of a game in the neutral and D zones. He just isn't a remarkable enough player to make the types of mistakes he does. Fox and Panarin make me want to tear my hair out too at times. But they ARE remarkable enough to get away with a few dumb plays.
 
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I believe we’ll re-sign Copp and I believe he can handle the 2C role just fine. He’s similar to a Danault - he can create SOME offense, but his strength is in being a complete player and being very good defensively, good on the draw, tenacious, etc. - and if you put him with talented players, he’ll produce. If we can get him at a good price (under 5M for long term? He’s 27) then he can fill the 2C spot for a bit and if we find a better talent for that role and want to slot him down to the third line in year 3 of his new deal, the cap should have started going up again and so it won’t be the worst scenario. He’ll also be movable if his cap hit is right - teams love guys like Copp and Goodrow, they can always be moved.

I simply do not want Strome returning under any circumstances. He is a bad hockey player with some good offensive attributes who has been in a dream scenario in NY, playing with one of the best wingers in the world and on the top PP with other elite talent. I really do not even want to think about re-signing him AND I deeply hope that once he is gone, we’ll see something more like first year Panarin where he actually drives play, shoots the puck, works hard, etc. Right now Panarin is playing awful hockey. He’s just THAT talented that he can still produce insane numbers while basically sleep walking, but there is no mistaking the fact that this zombie Panarin at nearly a 12M cap hit isn’t impacting the game the way he’s capable of and does things that effectively hurt the team as well. I hope that a forced divorce between he and Strome snaps him back to the player he should be, where the eye test and the numbers match, because right now he looks like trash most nights.

I think Copp is a good player for a Panarin line because he’s tenacious, defensively responsible, a handful on the forecheck and significantly more offensively talented than Blackwell, Hunt and probably even Fast. Put Kakko on that line and you have two very good defensive guys who have offensive talent, size to work the boards, etc. I hope management has the foresight to see it.
 
He just doesn't have much of a game in the neutral and D zones. He just isn't a remarkable enough player to make the types of mistakes he does. Fox and Panarin make me want to tear my hair out too at times. But they ARE remarkable enough to get away with a few dumb plays.

This. That’s what I was saying about Panarin in my post above. He is that elite .01% talent that can get away with playing like he’s drunk and doesn’t care. Strome isn’t even close to being good enough to get the same pass.
 
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A lot of GMs subscribe to the sunk cost fallacy, however. That NYR moved two good picks to get him here might weigh on the decision, even if it shouldn't. Same situation as Brendan Smith.
I mean Drury certainly saw that blow up in their face. Let’s see if he learned anything
 
I actually do think Strome evolved into a much better hockey player under David Quinn. This year, under Gallant, he's gone back to the game that earned him 4th line duties in other clubs. Really is a shame to see how much he's regressed.

I don't mind keeping him this year at the TDL - I don't like rewarding regular season success by trading away core pieces, it sends the wrong message to the players on the team and makes the club a less desirable place for free agents to sign.

But if Strome isn't a monster in the playoffs, he's gotta go. If he's even just "good" he's gotta go.

He just doesn't have much of a game in the neutral and D zones. He just isn't a remarkable enough player to make the types of mistakes he does. Fox and Panarin make me want to tear my hair out too at times. But they ARE remarkable enough to get away with a few dumb plays.
NO. he should have been sold high from before. Also, I don't begrudge players benefits of being well paid pro athletes, but hey, they work for me and the other fans. It is one thing if rules allow free spending and owners do not cough up fair $, but if it is a tight cap situation as is the actual case, they know and understand there is only so much salary to go around, and routinely deals must get done to be ahead of the cap. It is too damn bad if any player does not respect that and prefers their own petty interests above those of the fans, which is for the best possible team for the longest possible duration of being competitive.
 
This is where winning those lotteries worked against us. If we didn't get 1st overall in 2020, we could have drafted Lundell or Holloway. If we don't win the lottery in 2019, maybe we get Zegras.

Trading for a young center with that kind of upside is much easier said than done.

I dont believe that to be the case, i think you use your top picks for the best player avaliable and use your others for drafting a combination of areas of need and best player available. I look back to the year we drafted a goalie in the second round that was believed to have been in the 4th round range, that pick right there might have been our center. There's been more than a few instances of us going off the board in the last few years. Its been know for a while that the center position was an issue, we lucked into Strome. Imagine if we hadnt?
With regards to trading for a center, 2 things are hard to find, young centers and young dmen, we have excess young dmen so move one in a package for a young center. People have mentioned that the center needs to be able to play with Panarin, i dispute that, he just needs to be able to play in the top 6, Panarin can play with Zib and Kreider if need be.
 
I'm hoping we let Strome go, otherwise we're looking at another 5-6 years of Strome and Panarin being terrible together.

That being said, the Rangers will probably sign Strome because they think Strome and Panarin are the French Connection.
 
People mentioning Chytil as a 2c, its not happening, he lacks hands, lacks vision and lacks top 6 iq. His best assets are his speed and size, he struggles to control the puck consistently when he's skating at speed with itAs much as you will it to be its not happening. He may not even be a 3c but rather a winger.
 
I'm hoping we let Strome go, otherwise we're looking at another 5-6 years of Strome and Panarin being terrible together.

That being said, the Rangers will probably sign Strome because they think Strome and Panarin are the French Connection.
john-evans-gene-hackman.gif
 
People mentioning Chytil as a 2c, its not happening, he lacks hands, lacks vision and lacks top 6 iq. His best assets are his speed and size, he struggles to control the puck consistently when he's skating at speed with itAs much as you will it to be its not happening. He may not even be a 3c but rather a winger.
The way Strome has been for like half of the season, Chytil might already be ready to replace him. They won't do it for the same reason they haven't been trying it before though.
 
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The way Strome has been for like half of the season, Chytil might already be ready to replace him. They won't do it for the same reason they haven't been trying it before though.

Its because Chytil isn't or never will be a 2c, if he was there would be no contract discussions for Strome.
 
I dont believe that to be the case, i think you use your top picks for the best player avaliable and use your others for drafting a combination of areas of need and best player available. I look back to the year we drafted a goalie in the second round that was believed to have been in the 4th round range, that pick right there might have been our center. There's been more than a few instances of us going off the board in the last few years. Its been know for a while that the center position was an issue, we lucked into Strome. Imagine if we hadnt?
With regards to trading for a center, 2 things are hard to find, young centers and young dmen, we have excess young dmen so move one in a package for a young center. People have mentioned that the center needs to be able to play with Panarin, i dispute that, he just needs to be able to play in the top 6, Panarin can play with Zib and Kreider if need be.
Panarin can probably make most centers shine. He’s a play driver.

Honestly, they should try him with Chytil at Center. I bet it would work better than people realize.
 
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The strome hate has gotten so out of hand it's extended to Panarin. Some of the Panarin takes recently in the GDTs have made my jaw drop. That said he should be let go
 
Can Copp produce as a 2C? He’s never put up 40 and he’s not a kid

He’s at 35 points in 56 games this year. Last year he had 39 in 55. With 74 points in his last 111 games that comes out to a 55 point pace.

People last summer said they didn’t want to sign Danault because he was “an offensive black hole” and defensive specialist, third line center. This year he’s at 21 goals and 39 points so far and he’s not working with a Panarin in LA.

I think it’s a very similar situation. Sure you trade 65+ point potential at the 2C spot for a hardworking, reliable, defensively responsible player who can win draws, but in both cases I think the requisite talent to be a 50+ point center playing top six minutes with Panarin is clearly there, and it’s a trade off I’ll take 10/10 times.
 
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Can Copp produce as a 2C? He’s never put up 40 and he’s not a kid
He has never put up 40, but he has 39 in 55 and 35 in 56 the last 2 years. That's 74 points in 111 games, which is a 55-56 point rate per 82. That's 2nd line production.

He didn't always play top 6 in Winnipeg either. With a full year next to Panarin, he should break 60 points.
 

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