HamiltonNHL
Resigning Marner == Running it back
- Jan 4, 2012
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Referee Wes McCauley has a major conflict with Keefe, shouldn't be reffing Leafs Games
- Thread starter HamiltonNHL
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I think the officiating was meh going into the 1st intermission. The McCabe highstick is clear as day, and the Brodie call was a hold to the letter of the law. That said, it was a very marginal hold and one that we saw countless times in that game alone go uncalled. It was a weird time to start making that call IMO, but nevertheless it was a hold and I can live with it regardless of the inconsistency that proceeded it.
where the officiating gets really suspect is when the game went 3-2. Below is a summary of how the final 8 minutes of the 2nd went down.
1. Leafs finally have jump after the Willy goal, the crowd is finally awake. McCabe throws a big and clean hit in neutral ice. He is subsequently taken out of the play by multiple Lightning players trying to challenge him to a fight. The whistle is not blown, no calls were made, and the play continues down into the Leafs end with their best defender still being hounded at the lightning bench. In an attempt to get back in the play and cover for McCabe, Kampf takes a penalty that is also a very soft call. There was not slash on the hands, and i'd argue that isn't even aggressive enough to warrant a stick on stick slash. Just horrible call really. It was very obvious that they felt a need to have a makeup call for the McCabe hit, that was not a penalty, as the Lightning bench erupted. This was the 1st of 2 lightning reactions that caused a game altering decision by the officiating crew
2. Brayden Point scores on the ensuing powerplay. The score is now 4-2
3. Michael Bunting then takes a frustration penalty that just cannot happen. It's 100% a penalty, but I am still not convinced it is a match + game. The fact that Cernak got hurt on the play was the ultimate reason he got the 5 and a game. I can get behind that decision. He took out their 3rd best defensmen on a needless play, and he should serve the time as a result.
5. Corey Perry scores?? I have still not seen a camera angle that conclusively shows the puck all the way over the goaline. Yet Wes McCauley seemingly saw the puck cross the line from this angle (see below)
Keep in mind Wes' hand is already pointing goal at this point but begins his motion for a good goal 0.5 second earlier, when he is 2 paces further away from the crease. Ya there's no f***ing way you saw that puck go in Wes. But because the call on the ice was a good goal, we somehow didn't have the conclusive evidence to overturn it....I am not suggesting the puck did not fully go over the line, I have just not seen 1 camera angle that definitively proves that it did. But Wes did, with his X-ray vision 10 feet away from the goaline. He motions for a goal based on the lightning reaction, plain and simple. No other way to chalk that up. Bush league.
6. We then challenge for goaltender interference, which TBH is kind of fair given that Sammy's pad clearly goes in with the puck. It's not goalie interference in the sense that he was interfered with in making the save, but the only way for that puck to cross the line, would be for Sammy's pad to go with it. Last I checked you are not allowed to do that. But again, that seemed fine after review.
7.We get a delay of game for failed challenge. On a goal that we don't even know went in, and even if it did go in it would have been pushed across the line along with Sammy's pad. They then score again on the ensuing 5 on 3 making the score 6-2
did we lose the game because of officiating? Absolutely not. We lost that game because we sucked. We were undisciplined. We gave the refs an opportunity to call that game however they wanted and we didn't show up on the PK when those calls didn't go our way. We lost, and we deserved to lose.
That doesn't take away from the clear and obvious poor officiating in that 2nd period. To say it didn't have an impact in the game is completely false. The game was 3-2 when this run of poor officiating started, and in a matter of 8 minutes of game play the game was completely out of reach. I am hardly the one to stir up the controversy when it comes to officiating, but the Leafs being 0-8 in the playoffs since 2016-17 when Wes is the Ref seems very convenient. You add the history between him and Keefe, and it really is something the League needs to look into IMO. Even if it is an unconscious bias from Wes' standpoint, and not intentional match fixing, there is clearly a history here.
where the officiating gets really suspect is when the game went 3-2. Below is a summary of how the final 8 minutes of the 2nd went down.
1. Leafs finally have jump after the Willy goal, the crowd is finally awake. McCabe throws a big and clean hit in neutral ice. He is subsequently taken out of the play by multiple Lightning players trying to challenge him to a fight. The whistle is not blown, no calls were made, and the play continues down into the Leafs end with their best defender still being hounded at the lightning bench. In an attempt to get back in the play and cover for McCabe, Kampf takes a penalty that is also a very soft call. There was not slash on the hands, and i'd argue that isn't even aggressive enough to warrant a stick on stick slash. Just horrible call really. It was very obvious that they felt a need to have a makeup call for the McCabe hit, that was not a penalty, as the Lightning bench erupted. This was the 1st of 2 lightning reactions that caused a game altering decision by the officiating crew
2. Brayden Point scores on the ensuing powerplay. The score is now 4-2
3. Michael Bunting then takes a frustration penalty that just cannot happen. It's 100% a penalty, but I am still not convinced it is a match + game. The fact that Cernak got hurt on the play was the ultimate reason he got the 5 and a game. I can get behind that decision. He took out their 3rd best defensmen on a needless play, and he should serve the time as a result.
5. Corey Perry scores?? I have still not seen a camera angle that conclusively shows the puck all the way over the goaline. Yet Wes McCauley seemingly saw the puck cross the line from this angle (see below)
Keep in mind Wes' hand is already pointing goal at this point but begins his motion for a good goal 0.5 second earlier, when he is 2 paces further away from the crease. Ya there's no f***ing way you saw that puck go in Wes. But because the call on the ice was a good goal, we somehow didn't have the conclusive evidence to overturn it....I am not suggesting the puck did not fully go over the line, I have just not seen 1 camera angle that definitively proves that it did. But Wes did, with his X-ray vision 10 feet away from the goaline. He motions for a goal based on the lightning reaction, plain and simple. No other way to chalk that up. Bush league.
6. We then challenge for goaltender interference, which TBH is kind of fair given that Sammy's pad clearly goes in with the puck. It's not goalie interference in the sense that he was interfered with in making the save, but the only way for that puck to cross the line, would be for Sammy's pad to go with it. Last I checked you are not allowed to do that. But again, that seemed fine after review.
7.We get a delay of game for failed challenge. On a goal that we don't even know went in, and even if it did go in it would have been pushed across the line along with Sammy's pad. They then score again on the ensuing 5 on 3 making the score 6-2
did we lose the game because of officiating? Absolutely not. We lost that game because we sucked. We were undisciplined. We gave the refs an opportunity to call that game however they wanted and we didn't show up on the PK when those calls didn't go our way. We lost, and we deserved to lose.
That doesn't take away from the clear and obvious poor officiating in that 2nd period. To say it didn't have an impact in the game is completely false. The game was 3-2 when this run of poor officiating started, and in a matter of 8 minutes of game play the game was completely out of reach. I am hardly the one to stir up the controversy when it comes to officiating, but the Leafs being 0-8 in the playoffs since 2016-17 when Wes is the Ref seems very convenient. You add the history between him and Keefe, and it really is something the League needs to look into IMO. Even if it is an unconscious bias from Wes' standpoint, and not intentional match fixing, there is clearly a history here.
Hollywood Burrows
Registered User
don't care about the bias thing (officiating in the NHL is uniformly terrible and the leafs haven't been affected more than anyone else) but I am pretty grossed out that an NHL ref would have a family connection to David Frost. That is just really unseemly!
GoonieFace
Registered User
Calling ESPN hockey commentators professional is a stretch. The Schenn penalty was iffy, otherwise I don’t think the officiating was the story some people want it to be
Da game was over in 1st period .. we got flat out outskated terribly .. and if tampa keeps up that pace for 3 more games there is not a damn thing anyone can do about it .. Wes did fine .. there were questionable calls both ways but that game was decided by da players not any ref
Bunting elbow was not a match penalty. Cernak is lower than expected, Bunting expects contact, doesn't actually get it, resulting in the elbow. This appears unintentional and a miscalculation by Bunting. Match penalty seems way too severe and a result of an overzealous ref.
If there was a conflict of interest, MLSE needs to step up.
If there was a conflict of interest, MLSE needs to step up.
57 Years No Cup
New and Improved Username!
- Nov 12, 2007
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As a thought experiment I went to all of the losing teams' boards to check things out. Sure enough, according to fans, all 8 of the teams that lost game 1 lost because of the refs!
It's a conspiracy!
It's a conspiracy!
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
David Frost isn't Graham james. Yes it's quite likely that he's a piece of shit, and it's quite likely that he was guilty of everything he was accused of.
And Wes McCauley didn't marry frost, he married his sister. And we don't even really know how he feels about Frost.
FerrisRox
"Wanna go, Prettyboy?"
It isn't discussed because it's completely false.
Sheldon Keefe *did not* testify against David Frost. Sheldon Keefe testified on behalf of David Frost and was one of the key witnesses that led to his acquittal.
I agree.
The officiating in that second period after Willy made the game 3-2 was horrendous IMO. The Kampf call in real time I thought i saw something there, but on review was disappointed with the call. That is not a slash, but mistakes can happen. What irritates me with that call is that McCabe was completely taken out of the play in the neutral zone by multiple lightning players which caused the breakdown that lead to the "slash". I can get behind the fact that the game is fast, and maybe Kampf's active stick looked like a slash in real time. But I cannot disregard the build up that lead to that play, and neither should the officiating crew. It was abundantly clear to me, the viewer watching in real time, that McCabe was taken out of the play. SO that should be the same for Wes and crew.
I am not saying that gives Kampf a free pass to hack at Perry, but maybe just call egregious infractions in the seconds that follow a change of possession in neutral ice. A change in possession that is largely altered by one of the Leafs defensemen getting taken out of the play. I am ok with the play continuing while Paul holds up McCabe in neutral ice, that's hockey, and I don't think the whistle needs to be blown there. But the puck goes back into our zone and we have to scramble as a result. Maybe let the very very marginal "slash" on Perry's stick go, because you seemingly didn't give a f*** about Paul taking McCabe out of the play.
But as I said many a time today, we didn't lose because of officiating. I didn't like the officiating, but that is a poor excuse IMO. We need to kill that penalty and keep that score 3-2. We didn't. We needed Bunting to play in between the lines, he didn't. We deserved what we got, and that's the bottom line.
Doesn't take away from the poor officiating though. It needs to be better IMO.
CantLoseWithMatthews
Registered User
- Sep 28, 2015
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Got a source for that? His testimony is under publication ban, so I hope you have a good reason for claiming he testified on behalf of a child predator. That would be a pretty disgusting claim to make if you can't back it up
robertmac43
Forever 43!
- Mar 31, 2015
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I'm guessing it has already surfaced in here but we are 0-8 with Wes reffing the Leafs during the playoffs.
keonsbitterness
Registered User
The league employs the people in that place, not the Leafs.
----
Sure, some of the calls were bad, and there's an argument for McCauley to not work Leaf games in order to avoid the appearance of bias (though the league will never entertain that), but that's not why we lost. Don't be the 2nd best team on the ice, don't go 50% on the PK, and don't allow two (TWO!) soul-crushing late period goals.
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
FerrisRox
"Wanna go, Prettyboy?"
Sure, I mean, it was pretty widely reported at the time of his trial.
"it was left to Keefe to testify on behalf of Frost, who was facing charges of sexual exploitation of minors that dated back to their time in a seedy hotel room in Deseronto, Ont."
That's taken from this article, A Chance at Redemption: Sheldon Keefe
"Keefe was never implicated in the crime, but he had to testify on Frost's behalf..."
Taken from this article: Breaking down Dallas Stars coaching candidates: Sheldon Keefe
Again, this was widely reported at the time of the trial.
No, he was acquitted, so it's most definitely not the right term.
He is, by all accounts, a really shitty person though, so "shitty person" might be the right term.
Jmo89
Registered User
- Mar 21, 2010
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This is what I think too. The Leafs didn't lose because of the officials last night. They stunk. You could argue their comeback bid was affected by a poor call that made it 4-2, but they shouldn't have been digging themselves out of a 3-0 hole in the first place.
That said, the officials were also terrible, as they often are league wide. As for the McCauley-Keefe connection, the NHL should probably avoid it for the optics. It is a little strange even if it's unlikely McCauley has an axe to grind and is/isn't impartial because of it.
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57 Years No Cup
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That might put a little crimp in the narrative.
HamiltonNHL
Resigning Marner == Running it back
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seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Would the term even be correct if he was convicted? I'm just not certain of all the exact details but I got the sense that everything that he allegedly did was with people above the age of consent and with their acquiescence, given his power over them as coach/agent. Not excusing anything of course, but child predator is a term I would use to describe Graham James and he seems like a few degrees below Graham James level.
WTFMAN99
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2009
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0-8 with him as the ref creates too much noise.
Let the Leafs lose on their own and not have that be a story line.
HamiltonNHL
Resigning Marner == Running it back
- Jan 4, 2012
- 22,710
- 13,885
He made up penalties with guys with 4 min penalties all year - called a crosscheck and the guy hand one hand on the stick.
He called a good goal that he could see AND THERE WAS ZERO chance he could see the puck.
He can ref other games.
He's a complete asshole if he refs another Leaf's game this year.
I hope this is the last Leaf game Wes McCauley will ever ref. The 2nd period sequence that led to the 4th tampa goal is so blatantly biased. It is the responsibility of every leaf fan to make this history on David Frost trend on twitter so that the NHL won't put him again in this series.
I am not worried about the Leafs getting swept or losing in 5 games. They have an excellent track record of making a series interesting, just as convincing a record as their history of 7th game meltdown. Getting McCauley out of the way early in this series, rather than having him ref the 7th game, may be just as crucial for the Leafs to possibly win the series as a Hedman injury.
I am not worried about the Leafs getting swept or losing in 5 games. They have an excellent track record of making a series interesting, just as convincing a record as their history of 7th game meltdown. Getting McCauley out of the way early in this series, rather than having him ref the 7th game, may be just as crucial for the Leafs to possibly win the series as a Hedman injury.
Drytoast
Registered User
- Sep 27, 2017
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Keefe wasn't the coach of the Maple Leafs until 2019...but I do admit that his personal connection to Keefe could affect his judgment.
Estimated_Prophet
Registered User
- Mar 28, 2003
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