Confirmed with Link: Red Wings sign D Justin Holl 3 years, 10.2M (3.4M AAV)

[TheOctopusKid]

Where were the other 5 guys? Or was Holl the only guy on the ice?

He was. It was terrible. Him just standing out there all by himself while all of TOR rained boos down on him and Tampa was merciless. The thing we can absolutely take away from his stat sheet in TOR is this...

Holl is the worst player to ever wear the Leaf and personally cost them at least four Stanley Cups last year.

 

[19 for president]

I'm not surprised Holl was terrible for Toronto vs TB.

1. Toronto is an offensive first run/gun team and doesn't get a ton of forward help defensively.
2. TB is still king of the stretch pass/ breakout game
3. Holl was playing top 4

If used appropriately on a team that actually commits to team D, I think he'll be fine. As stated if we didn't have 3 such dman I wouldn't mind him at all. 3 of those dman means one is likely playing further up the lineup than he should.

One of the 3 really needs to get moved at some point this year and ideally another next season. Chiarot is still my choice because he has the most money + term, and tries to play offensively....

 

[Go Wings]

Where were the other 5 guys? Or was Holl the only guy on the ice?

The other 5 guys, other than the goalie, weren't on the ice for that many goals against. It was consistently Holl on the ice for almost all his team's goals against.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

Other Leafs Defensemen who we're the "worst thing ever in hockey and the reason why the Leafs lose"

Larry Murphy
Dion Phaneuf
Bryan McCabe
Cody Franson
Jake Gardiner
Cody Ceci

Each of these guys were run out of town by the team, media, and fans who all thought they sucked. The Larry Murphy situation, for those of us who are old enough to remember, should be MORE than enough to know not to trust Toronto's assessment of defensemen.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/jake-gardiner-larry-murphy-leafs-whipping-boy-1.4979386

The fanbase ran him out of town and blamed him for everything despite being great with them and we got him for nothing. He would play top pair minutes with us and be a key player for us in our back-to-back wins and have a good five seasons with us before retiring.

The point of this is that a lot of these guys and their reputations take massive hits while they are in TOR, unreasonably so, Holl is just another example of what is a decades long pattern. He's going to be fine as a bottom 4, veteran D for us and despite the overreaction that he's this garbage player, he is a significant step above the guys we have been icing for the last few seasons (Hagg, Biega, Oesterle, Stecher, etc.)

Quick point of clarification:

I'm not a Holl fan. I think he's a decidedly middle of the road, veteran depth defenseman. I'm more making a point that if we somehow think that Justin Freakin' Holl has any material impact on the immediate success of the team ("we'd be good if Holl wasn't so bad") or that his short and reasonable termed contract is somehow preventing us with making moves, or his very existence is such a glass ceiling to prevent our highly touted prospects from emerging and taking the league by storm is all but laughable.

He is a perfectly serviceable veteran defenseman making the market rate, who is there to provide some support in the bottom 4 as we phase in our prospects over the next two seasons and stop us from having rookie + rookie pairing. That's it. If/When the time comes to move on from him, his is more than moveable because...

 

[cvaicunas]

Yes, I'm trolling or I'm quite new on these boards and didn't know the fan base had some kind of PTSD over cap/contracts debates.

I'll see myself out

Every forum deals with trolls fairly often, so yea there is a bit of a defensive reflex at times. Over the summer, there were many that doubted the signing of Holl. But at this point, albeit a very small sample size, both the eye test and advanced metrics have shown Holl to be fairly competent in his role. Everyone is welcome to advance the conversation in a different direction, but often times broad statements with negative connotations are the work of individuals attempting to troll board.

EDIT: You obviously don't need to see yourself out, but if you have ever perused the main boards, you might notice a massive difference in the way converations play out. I think I can say with confidence, no one wants that crazy in here.

 

[GreytWun]

Some mistakes are you for real?
In 5 games against Tampa last year Justin Holl was on the ice for 14 out of the 19 goals that Tampa scored on Toronto. He was absolutely awful and deserved all the flak he got.

Giordano was completed trash as well. Then you factor in their supposed superstars who are soft and disappear every single playoffs.

They even wanted Morgan Reilley ran out of town the last two playoffs.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Yup. But you want that puck carrier wide and heading below the goal line 100 times out of 100.

yes. i am agreeing

 

[ShakenNotStirred]

Pepperidge Farm remembers. Holl's contract isn't bad at all and he is an upgrade over the fecal matter we have had the past three seasons.

I'll see your pepperidge farms and raise you a Bo Knows Haag.

The sun is shining brighter each and every day for this organization and I'm not putting on sunscreen

 

[MabusIncarnate]

Lots of stuff happens during the first few games of the season, not gonna buy too much into anything yet. About the 12 game mark I think we'll have a more comfortable idea about Holl, and the other additions after the new season smell wears off and the league settles a bit.

 

[Henkka]

1. Seider 23:47 min
2. Walman 20:05 min
3. Chiarot 19:20 min
4. Gostisbehere 18:44
---------------- That's the Top4, pretty clear
5. Petry 16:44 (1 game scratched)
6. Holl 16:19
7. Määttä 14:15 (1 game scratched)

That's the hierarchy.

 

[Ricelund]

1. Seider 23:47 min
2. Walman 20:05 min
3. Chiarot 19:20 min
4. Gostisbehere 18:44
---------------- That's the Top4, pretty clear
5. Petry 16:44 (1 game scratched)
6. Holl 16:19
7. Määttä 14:15 (1 game scratched)

That's the hierarchy.

I wonder why Maatta's fallen out of favor. He was great last year and they extended him.

 

[Oddbob]

I wonder why Maatta's fallen out of favor. He was great last year and they extended him.

This is what I want to know. He is clearly the 3rd best defensive defender out of the 7 with Detroit right now. After his illness last year, he never did regain the ice time he was getting before that, so it does make me wonder if there is something health related. He is a very calm and safe defender, he really shouldn't be in the supposed doghouse.

 

[Henkka]

Imo, Määttä hasn't fallen anywhere. They have scratched all of those 5-6-7 defencemen for 1 game. Equal rotation.

And for one game they went with 7D.

 

[Hoog]

Matta/Ghost has been pretty solid. I would leave that line be at #2 right now.

 

[Oddbob]

Imo, Määttä hasn't fallen anywhere. They have scratched all of those 5-6-7 defencemen for 1 game. Equal rotation.

And for one game they went with 7D.

Maatta is a 4th d who is better than all scratched and plays less minutes than Chiarot who is clearly worse.

 

[Henkka]

Realgud.

 

[jaster]

What was Maatta's injury last year? I can't recall, but what I do remember is the team saying his endurance would be affected after the procedure and his minutes would be dialed back. The assumption was that was temporary while he continued to recover. But maybe not. Maybe he's experienced some permanent effect.

 

[Gniwder]

What was Maatta's injury last year? I can't recall, but what I do remember is the team saying his endurance would be affected after the procedure and his minutes would be dialed back. The assumption was that was temporary while he continued to recover. But maybe not. Maybe he's experienced some permanent effect.

"Olli Maatta has pneumonia and will be a game-time decision Saturday (illness).

Maatta has not played since Dec. 6th due to illness and will be a game-time decision as the Red Wings take on Ottawa Saturday. Maatta has been having a resurgent first season in Detroit, with two goals, 10 points, 20 SOG and a +11 plus/minus through 25 games this season."

Source:
Ansar Khan Dec 16, 2022 @ 09:22 PST


Pneumonia. Maybe they're just concerned about his stamina and limiting his ice time. Oddly the contract extension happened in Feb, after the illness.

Edit: It was reported that it was not COVID related. SOmething else caused it...

 

[jaster]

"Olli Maatta has pneumonia and will be a game-time decision Saturday (illness).

Maatta has not played since Dec. 6th due to illness and will be a game-time decision as the Red Wings take on Ottawa Saturday. Maatta has been having a resurgent first season in Detroit, with two goals, 10 points, 20 SOG and a +11 plus/minus through 25 games this season."

Source:
Ansar Khan Dec 16, 2022 @ 09:22 PST


Pneumonia. Maybe they're just concerned about his stamina and limiting his ice time. Oddly the contract extension happened in Feb, after the illness.

Edit: It was reported that it was not COVID related. SOmething else caused it...

Huh, yeah that is interesting. Who knows. Pneumonia can have last effects, but that's just speculation as far as Maatta goes. And if there are lasting effects they must not be that bad.

 

[Bench]

Lots of stuff happens during the first few games of the season, not gonna buy too much into anything yet. About the 12 game mark I think we'll have a more comfortable idea about Holl, and the other additions after the new season smell wears off and the league settles a bit.

Agreed.

But it's worth nothing that Holl had basically average advanced stats his entire tenure in Toronto. Consistently average defensive guy who often got top minutes. I'm not surprised he's looking better getting lesser assignments.

He was a "disaster" in Toronto the way Ericsson was a "disaster" here in Detroit. You take a serviceable, defensive D and throw them out on your top units and wonder why it looks like a struggle.

Holl's ice time has dropped 3-4 minutes a night from Toronto. That's where he should be, ideally.

 

[RabidBadger]

Agreed.

But it's worth nothing that Holl had basically average advanced stats his entire tenure in Toronto. Consistently average defensive guy who often got top minutes. I'm not surprised he's looking better getting lesser assignments.

He was a "disaster" in Toronto the way Ericsson was a "disaster" here in Detroit. You take a serviceable, defensive D and throw them out on your top units and wonder why it looks like a struggle.

Holl's ice time has dropped 3-4 minutes a night from Toronto. That's where he should be, ideally.

Proper utilization will do wonders for a player. It can also spin a shaky turnover machine like Filip Hronek into a blue chip trade piece.

 

[FMichael]

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I seem to recall a post-game interview with Murph shortly after he arrived in the D where he insinuated the media/fans in Tronna were a bunch of goofs

 

[14ari13]

Holl leads the team with +9.
Perron is -3.

 

[cjeagle]

The Toronto media via THN has commented on Holl's strong start in Detroit leading the league in the +/- category with +9. Didn't they help chase him out of Toronto though?

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/latest-news/former-maple-leafs-defenseman-justin-holl-leading-the-nhl-in-surprising-stat-while-with-red-wings

 

[Henkka]

The Toronto media via THN has commented on Holl's strong start in Detroit leading the league in the +/- category with +9. Didn't they help chase him out of Toronto though?

Hope John Klingberg is leading the league in minuses.