Value of: REALISTIC landing spots for Marc Staal

[Maukkis]

That would be a difference maker, would appreciate a second opinion to verify from someone sure.

If so, what a screw job!
I get how you have to use a slot on a NMC, even though I think that should not apply --- too long a discussion for now; but then the player, and not the expansion club, has the trump card.

It is intrinsically unfair. Why should we have to do this if there is no chance he can be drafted by LV?

It really isn't any kind of rocket science. The player has earned a right to stay with the team he wants, therefore it it not unfair in the slightest. If Staal, or any other player with an active NMC wants to stay, the club has no choice but to respect the decision, case closed.

The league will probably shut most of the shady ways of protecting as many players as possible down during the year, so I wouldn't think much further about it. NMC is the key, and whoever holds it, decides. It's simple as that.

 

[Shootertooter]

If threatened with a buyout, both players would stand to lose money. Either might be willing to drop the NMC, if that happens, is the NMC dead and will not apply to the team that picks them up? If that is the case, there would be no need to protect them in an expansion draft or ever.

I could see Staal being moved with salary retained, as he is a serviceable defenseman. At 4M he should interest someone who needs help on the left side. I'm not saying he is a great defender but he can still play.

 

[TOGuy14]

If threatened with a buyout, both players would stand to lose money. Either might be willing to drop the NMC, if that happens, is the NMC dead and will not apply to the team that picks them up? If that is the case, there would be no need to protect them in an expansion draft or ever.

I could see Staal being moved with salary retained, as he is a serviceable defenseman. At 4M he should interest someone who needs help on the left side. I'm not saying he is a great defender but he can still play.

I think a buyout is an empty threat. Are the Rangers really going to burn 2.5-3M of cap for the next 8-10 years?

 

[dashripdot]

I don't see any team bringing in a questionable player with a NMC before next summers expansion draft.

And this is the perfect argument for the Rangers to ask Girardi or Staal to waive for the limited purpose of the expansion draft. "Hey, fellas, no team wants you with the contracts you have, including the expansion team, so do us the favor of waiving your NMCs. It'll give us protection for a couple more players (Klein, Fast, or McIlrath, for instance), and you'll still be Rangers when the expansion draft is over."

 

[bernmeister]

It seems the last option is to bump upstairs.
Increase the pay, for a consultant/announcer position.

Player voluntarily retires to get bigger paycheck on softer gig.

Can Gorton do that? Any crazy penalties the league issues when a player actually hangs up his skates in such situation?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

If threatened with a buyout, both players would stand to lose money.

Not necessarily. Staal is owed $20M in real salary for the remainder of his contract. If you bought him out today, the Rangers would pay $13.5M, so Staal would make $6.5M less money (not accounting for any time value of money adjustments). I'm relatively sure that Marc Staal, as a UFA would then turn around and sign for somewhere else that he wanted to play and over the same 5 years that he is currently under contract with NYR, make more than $6.5M. He'd probably make quite a bit more by being bought out and signing elsewhere.

Either might be willing to drop the NMC, if that happens, is the NMC dead and will not apply to the team that picks them up? If that is the case, there would be no need to protect them in an expansion draft or ever.

It's not 100% clear. The CBA does NOT say that once a player waives his NMC, it is no longer in effect. So unless that is written into the players contract, I believe the NMC would still be in effect for the team that acquires said player. The CBA DOES say that if a player is traded BEFORE his NTC/NMC goes into effect, the team that acquires him doesn't have to honor it, but that's not the case with Staal or Girardi.

 

[TGWL]

I think a buyout is an empty threat. Are the Rangers really going to burn 2.5-3M of cap for the next 8-10 years?

Plus Staal can still find an NHL spot. Take away the bad contract and suddenly he's not nearly as bad. I don't see him losing any money here where he waives.

 

[Maukkis]

It seems the last option is to bump upstairs.
Increase the pay, for a consultant/announcer position.

Player voluntarily retires to get bigger paycheck on softer gig.

Can Gorton do that? Any crazy penalties the league issues when a player actually hangs up his skates in such situation?

Oh, here we are with the classic Bern stuff. Fantastic.

A commentator being paid over six million a year. One less capable defenseman. No savings for the team money wise. Possible punishments for the team, when its actions will undoubtedly be investigated afterwards.

IDK which side refuses to do that more, Staal or the Rangers.

 

[vipernsx]

The only problem with Staal is that everyone has jumped on the "he's garbage" bandwagon without even knowing anything about the player or knowing anything about the NYPost. The guy's all of 29, has size, can skate, and has smarts to play in a man to man and zone system. Simply said, the guys still a top4 blueliner.

He's getting trashed because Pittsburgh's forwards had blitz the Rangers and made their blueline look slow. And I'll say again, they won the Stanley Cup for a reason and made everyone look slow.

 

[Beacon]

As they say these days, it's not the player, it's the contract. What team needs Staal, even at about $3m, until 2021?

Literally every team. No team would be poorly served by having a good #3 defenseman on a $3 contract.

If you disagree, it's because you have no clue about this player. When Ovechkin is coming down the wing and you check who's defending him one-on-one, if it's Staal, you feel good about your chances. It doesn't mean that there's a guarantee against a goal, but you certainly don't get a feeling of "omg, please hang on," you're thinking, "ok, this is fine, let's pay more attention to the 1-on-1, but Staal can definitely hold his own on this situation."

If instead of Ovechkin, it's Marcus Johansson or Jason Chimera coming down the wing 1-on-1 against Staal, you feel that you have an advantage.

 

[Leafs87]

NYR seems like the only realistic spot for him at this point

 

[Jeremy2020]

NYR seems like the only realistic spot for him at this point

I could also see it making sense for the NYR

 

[Leafs87]

I could also see it making sense for the NYR

It'd be a contract they'd regret IMO.

 

[GongShowWilly]

toss him in the pile next too Clarkson , Girardi , Lupul and D. Brown

 

[dahrougem2]

He turns 30 years old next season, has 5 years left at 5.7M per season cap hit, had a serious eye injury and isn't as good as he used to be. You want to get rid of him, you're going to have to either take back a player with a similar contract or eat 50% of the cap hit for the duration of the contract. I can't see a sane GM trying to get the Rangers out of this contract without some type of incentive.

Marc Staal @ 2.85M for the next 5 years is probably pretty good for a lot of teams, but I can't see the Rangers retaining 50% for 5 years.

 

[bernmeister]

....

Oh, here we are with the classic Bern stuff. Fantastic.

It's a tough job, but somebody's gotta do it

A commentator being paid over six million a year. One less capable defenseman. No savings for the team money wise.

Forgetting the underlying point of the thread.
$ is secondary, not immaterial, but not critical
I agree, he is more than capable as to on ice exclusively
The immediate issue is not who is a more or less capable add to the roster
The immediate issue is the slot for expansion draft protection; can that be salvaged by moving 2 NMCs. Is that doable, and if so at a reasonable/acceptable cost.

Possible punishments for the team, when its actions will undoubtedly be investigated afterwards.
IDK which side refuses to do that more, Staal or the Rangers.

what punishments?
for what reason??
player voluntarily accepts retirement for cushier job at increased salary...

 

[Maukkis]

It's a tough job, but somebody's gotta do it



Forgetting the underlying point of the thread.
$ is secondary, not immaterial, but not critical
I agree, he is more than capable as to on ice exclusively
The immediate issue is not who is a more or less capable add to the roster
The immediate issue is the slot for expansion draft protection; can that be salvaged by moving 2 NMCs. Is that doable, and if so at a reasonable/acceptable cost.




what punishments?
for what reason??
player voluntarily accepts retirement for cushier job at increased salary...

You are a professional hockey player, basically living your dream and getting paid very well doing so. Would you retire just to get a bit more money?

You would not. End of story.

 

[bernmeister]

someone said Kane, another Moulson

Nash + Girardi
for
Kane + Moulson

Nash is solid team add for Eichel
should you need the roster slot, you can trade w 1 year left

Girardi right after season and presumably after scheduled exp draft, his NMC turns into NTC and can in theory be moved

Moulson similar $, term
But arguably is an even worse bet to be productive than an actual RD [shortage in demand] who, while overpaid Girardi can be seen productive in the right system w/3rd pair mins.

Buf fans, does that work

NY gets lesser deal to be sure NMC not a factor

 

[Sabresruletheschool]

someone said Kane, another Moulson

Nash + Girardi
for
Kane + Moulson

Nash is solid team add for Eichel
should you need the roster slot, you can trade w 1 year left

Girardi right after season and presumably after scheduled exp draft, his NMC turns into NTC and can in theory be moved

Moulson similar $, term
But arguably is an even worse bet to be productive than an actual RD [shortage in demand] who, while overpaid Girardi can be seen productive in the right system w/3rd pair mins.

Buf fans, does that work

NY gets lesser deal to be sure NMC not a factor

IF Buffalo was to go this route, it would have to be a deal for Staal. Girardi plays the wrong side Buffalo isn't taking a flyer on a 5 year hitch for a position they don't really need with Bogoasian and Risto already there

 

[Levitate]

The only problem with Staal is that everyone has jumped on the "he's garbage" bandwagon without even knowing anything about the player or knowing anything about the NYPost. The guy's all of 29, has size, can skate, and has smarts to play in a man to man and zone system. Simply said, the guys still a top4 blueliner.

He's getting trashed because Pittsburgh's forwards had blitz the Rangers and made their blueline look slow. And I'll say again, they won the Stanley Cup for a reason and made everyone look slow.

I think Staal has to show some of his better play last year is something he can sustain, he started out pretty poorly (like most of the team) but improved later in the year. He can still be an effective player, though he'll always struggle a bit if forwards are allowed to blitz through the neutral zone with speed at him (most D aren't great at handling that though). The fact that he was coming off ankle surgery last offseason might have contributed to his slow start, but with all the injuries piled up and the downturn in his game since then, he has a lot to prove still.

But, he's still no Dan Girardi. He can still be a good player and he could still help some teams. Hell, I wouldn't even necessarily mind if he stayed a Ranger if they weren't also carrying Girardi on the other side. We're all kind of invested in moving Staal because we seem as more movable and it's a way to get out from under one large blueline contract, not because he's an out and out crappy player

 

[Sweetpotato]

what punishments?
for what reason??
player voluntarily accepts retirement for cushier job at increased salary...

They'd be punished for very obvious cap circumvention. You can't just void a contract for retirement and replace it with another one to get out of the long term cap penalties. Don't you think other Franchise wouldve done that by now with many different contracts.

 

[bernmeister]

IF Buffalo was to go this route, it would have to be a deal for Staal. Girardi plays the wrong side Buffalo isn't taking a flyer on a 5 year hitch for a position they don't really need with Bogoasian and Risto already there

I was thinking of him at 3RD, not in conflict w/Bogo/Risto
who is your current 3RD? used to be Pysyk, I think, but he's gone...

anyway, main selling point for you guys is Girardi turns NMC into NTC right after the expansion draft next year. A few more days the other way, NY would not have this headache about expansion protection, which is my paramount concern.

This means no worries about enough ducats to redo Eichel & co. And like I said, after a year of Nash, you can flip him for futures, probably for a profit, and that = an extra space for you to not have to protect at the draft. {You would otherwise protect Kane and Moulson. Girardi you would have to respect the NMC, beyond that you're good. So that is one required protect. Rangers would have to do a Redden on Moulson, and unless Kane matures very quickly, he won't be a picnic. But the one saving grace is avoiding the NMC even though it shortly morphs into NTC.}

Staal, however remains NMC is my understanding at this point. If it does morph, it does so later.

 

[PB37]

Staal has 5 yrs at 5.75 left. rangers can eat up to half.
He will never be the best pure shutdown D in NHL he once was, but continues to improve since eye injury coupla years back. AV system is part of the problem, and AVs personnel decisions are not a help.

If not for the NMC, I'd ride Staal out. It's not as though he brings nothing.

As for to Buf for EKane, that is a no, cause I have already set that aside for Girardi +, to move that NMC.

Not clear where he would agree to move.
Return is not critical, looking for moving his NMC want flexibility going forward including the expansion draft.

Thanks in advance, catch ya later....

When was Staal the best pure shutdown D in the NHL when he's played against the likes of Chara and Lidstrom his entire career?

 

[bernmeister]

They'd be punished for very obvious cap circumvention. You can't just void a contract for retirement and replace it with another one to get out of the long term cap penalties. Don't you think other Franchise wouldve done that by now with many different contracts.

I would tend to agree if the scenario were anything other than legit retirement. But I don't see how league can defeat right of player to retire, and if so, why should a club be penalized for helping out a guy whose played a whole career of mostly hard minutes?

I think this would especially be the case if the player FIRST said no mas and ripped up his deal. He would be taking a huge gamble the club would follow through with the retirement offer...

 

[bernmeister]

When was Staal the best pure shutdown D in the NHL when he's played against the likes of Chara and Lidstrom his entire career?

Would say around end of his 2nd year up to about a year before the eye injury, plus/minus.

Again, other guys faster, stronger, better this, better that, but I felt for one guy across the board excellence, as to D only, not as to anything on offense, Staal passed the eye test more than pretty much everybody.