Sportsnet: Stars and Hawks talking Seth Jones

[JeffP]

I hear you, I just dont think Nill pushes in unless its an underpay since hes pretty convservo, but I welcome that sort of a swing at this point.. team aint going to have more swings at this with the current line-up and we are real real hurt atm

*Last month:

Dumba, high pick or two, decent prospect for Jones
Somehow there's a way to make that a win-win, help them fill out space for the position and require less salary retention while putting picks into their hands

I have no concept of what an underpayment or overpayment would be for an overhyped RHD that needs new scenery for a better overhyped RHD that needs new scenery and is expensive.

but I could see it being ~advantageous for both teams balancing the scales with picks and retention .. obviously not a gm and am biased

Change My Mind

Obviously the same still stands, I’m not a GM :\ I’m sure im missing something important

 

[Ciao]

To Dallas:

Seth Jones with 25% retention

To Chicago:

Emil Hemming (late 1st rounder)
Matt Dumba
2025 1st Round pick (it will obviously be late in the 1st round as well)


Two late 1sts and a bad contract seems pretty fair.

You're tying up a retention spot for 5 1/2 years and six trade deadlines.

That's six separate trade-deadline retention deals that the Hawks would not be able to make.

It had better be a very good return. I don't think a late first and a couple of unremarkable pieces are enough.

 

[JeffP]

It’s just really hard to want to part with your up-and-coming cost-controlled scoring former first rounder (Bourque/Stankoven) for on older expensive underperforming D.

He looks like he *could* be great on a contender, but who else could/would part with more?

If I’m the GM for Dallas, I’d ultimately sweeten that more for retention but it is still a really big gamble. So the answer is likely somewhere in the middle or not at all. Regardless, qits fun to speculate but I dont think anything happens until after FOUR N F-O.

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

You're tying up a retention spot for 5 1/2 years and six trade deadlines.

That's six separate trade-deadline retention deals that the Hawks would not be able to make.

It had better be a very good return. I don't think a late first and a couple of unremarkable pieces are enough.

McCabe and Rantanen's retained salary spots come off the books after this year.
So the Hawks would still have two open.

 

[Kevin Musto]

Dallas has $5,516,666 in deadline cap space.

If they send Dumba + Steel to Chicago, they'll have $10,466,666.

Enough to absorb Jones. (and call up an AHL forward)

 

[Kevin Musto]

To Chicago:

-Matt Dumba
-Sam Steel
-the rights to Angus MacDonell
-2026 1st round pick
-2027 2nd round pick

To Dallas:

-Seth Jones

 

[u2wojo]

To Chicago:

-Matt Dumba
-Sam Steel
-the rights to Angus MacDonell
-2026 1st round pick
-2027 2nd round pick

To Dallas:

-Seth Jones

I would have to have Emil Hemming replace the 2nd and MacDonell (and could be talked into Donato being added for a 3rd which is a lsight loss for the Hawks/win for the Stars on his value). I am not moving Jones where the only piece of note is a future late first. Even with Hemming, you are talking basically 2 late 1sts in value for a top pairing RHD on what is about to become a fair contract with the looming cap increases.

 

[WhoahNow]

I'd be surprised if Steel is included he's pretty valuable bottom 6 forward for Dallas.

 

[starsfan86]

I would have to have Emil Hemming replace the 2nd and MacDonell (and could be talked into Donato being added for a 3rd which is a lsight loss for the Hawks/win for the Stars on his value). I am not moving Jones where the only piece of note is a future late first. Even with Hemming, you are talking basically 2 late 1sts in value for a top pairing RHD on what is about to become a fair contract with the looming cap increases.

Thread 'Is Seth Jones A Locker Room Cancer?'

Jan 1, 2025

I used to give Jones the benefit of the doubt. I never liked how he presented himself on camera/in interviews. He always seemed disinterested and bored. However, as an introvert I understand that one could be different around others compared to the spotlight. But now that his play has clearly regressed, none of this can be ignored anymore. There just seem to be a lot of clues that he is not the leader we'd want him to be on this team. Why don't they play him with Vlasic anymore? Instead they are pairing him with... Brodie and Allan?? Also, I know I'm not the only one who notices Jones'...

• Geoist
• Replies: 156
• Forum: Chicago Blackhawks

The comments in this thread make me think that he’s not a top pairing d man and not on a fair contract lol.

 

[u2wojo]

Thread 'Is Seth Jones A Locker Room Cancer?'

Jan 1, 2025

I used to give Jones the benefit of the doubt. I never liked how he presented himself on camera/in interviews. He always seemed disinterested and bored. However, as an introvert I understand that one could be different around others compared to the spotlight. But now that his play has clearly regressed, none of this can be ignored anymore. There just seem to be a lot of clues that he is not the leader we'd want him to be on this team. Why don't they play him with Vlasic anymore? Instead they are pairing him with... Brodie and Allan?? Also, I know I'm not the only one who notices Jones'...

• Geoist
• Replies: 156
• Forum: Chicago Blackhawks

The comments in this thread make me think that he’s not a top pairing d man and not on a fair contract lol.

Jones is a whipping boy based on the assets Bowman used to acquire him and then the subsequent generous contract which was 1-1.5 million more per year then should have been given out now almost 4 years ago. Add the losing that has occurred since Jones arrived to a fan base that was spoiled by winning 3 cups in 6 years, and you end up with some irrational hot takes on Jones.

Any rational metric of what a top pairing D is, Jones is certainly no worse than middle of the pack. 24:36 minutes per game and career production of 42 points/82 games (playing on some reaaly bad offensive Hawks teams and I don't remember Columbus being an offensive wagon either) is clearly top 32 RHD in the league. Jones wears an "A" in Chicago which would not be the first time a bad teammate would have a letter...but much less likely that in reality he actually is a bad teammate.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Thread 'Is Seth Jones A Locker Room Cancer?'

Jan 1, 2025

I used to give Jones the benefit of the doubt. I never liked how he presented himself on camera/in interviews. He always seemed disinterested and bored. However, as an introvert I understand that one could be different around others compared to the spotlight. But now that his play has clearly regressed, none of this can be ignored anymore. There just seem to be a lot of clues that he is not the leader we'd want him to be on this team. Why don't they play him with Vlasic anymore? Instead they are pairing him with... Brodie and Allan?? Also, I know I'm not the only one who notices Jones'...

• Geoist
• Replies: 156
• Forum: Chicago Blackhawks

The comments in this thread make me think that he’s not a top pairing d man and not on a fair contract lol.

I don't know about locker room cancer but his play coming back from injury was horrid. While he was out a lot of young guys came in, stepped up, and made our defense + pk look pretty good. Then he comes back and we're giving up 4 + goals every night. That level of bad play continued until he was booed on home ice. When he was interviewed after about it he said paraphrase ["I guess that goes with the territory of having a big contract. I'll have to be better"].

Which he honestly has been but it begs the question if he was capable of this level of play why wait until you're booed by your home fans to turn things around? He's making $9.5m a year and wearing an "A". He was brought in to be our #1Dman for 8 years and anchor our defense. None of us are in the locker room so saying he's a "cancer" is ignorant. I've met him a couple 2-3 times and he always seemed very nice. I think it's plain as day that he's not going to be a leader on a team but moreso do well when he's not expected to carry a team on his own.

Dallas would be getting a talented Dman who has poor hockey IQ in his own zone but would be a net positive on that lineup. The Hawks take a hit in the short term but avoid the last 2-3 years of his deal where he underperforms relative to his cap hit.

 

[AuraSphere]

Damnit was hoping the Leafs were targeting him.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

trouba @ $8m for a single year is much more manageable than if he had 5 years remaining. The term on Jones is a negative (although a bit less with the rapid cap increase projected)

Trouba is a 3rd pair guy at this point. I feel like SJ is still a legit 1st pair dman, which makes any comparison between those players completely different.

 

[Ciao]

McCabe and Rantanen's retained salary spots come off the books after this year.
So the Hawks would still have two open.

With three retention spots you could make up to 18 deals in six years. With two you could make 12.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

With three retention spots you could make up to 18 deals in six years. With two you could make 12.

While true - the Hawks should be less inclined to retain salary going forward as the organization should be leaving the "rebuild" phase.

I do think that with the cap increases shown going forward the Hawks should not have to retain specifically on SJ's contract. His salary will very soon be "non-elite" 1st pair d-man, with the elite guys making $12+M. I think that people are underestimating the impact on contracts of the cap going up to $113M over the next 2-3 seasons.

 

[BigTomBomber]

Trouba is a 3rd pair guy at this point. I feel like SJ is still a legit 1st pair dman, which makes any comparison between those players completely different.

The players are almost irrelevant when you're comparing how to trade for two separate players: a 1yr / $8m and a 5yr / $9.5m.

It's a no brainer who the better player is, but the guy making slightly less for 1 year is clearly much more manageable to trade for than a guy making a bit more for 5 more years. The term left on Seth Jones contract (before any retention) is not necessarily seen as a positive for most competitive teams as they usually have their approximate cap mapped out for 3-5 years in the future. That cap hit/term is all but prohibitive for contending teams. It is for Trouba too (clearly), but on a much smaller scale since it's only a year and the trading team would be much more willing to retain for a single year than 5 years.

 

[u2wojo]

The players are almost irrelevant when you're comparing how to trade for two separate players: a 1yr / $8m and a 5yr / $9.5m.

It's a no brainer who the better player is, but the guy making slightly less for 1 year is clearly much more manageable to trade for than a guy making a bit more for 5 more years. The term left on Seth Jones contract (before any retention) is not necessarily seen as a positive for most competitive teams as they usually have their approximate cap mapped out for 3-5 years in the future. That cap hit/term is all but prohibitive for contending teams. It is for Trouba too (clearly), but on a much smaller scale since it's only a year and the trading team would be much more willing to retain for a single year than 5 years.

Ordinarily, your point is spot on. In a world where the cap is going up 10ish million per year each of the next 3 Summers....not so much. For a team like Dallas that has 4 core pieces locked up long term (Hintz, Heiskanen, Oettinger, & Lindell) all of those contracts are going to go from good value to great value as the cap rises. The only significant pieces that have yet to be tied up are Johnson who is a pending RFA and maybe gets done long term (unless his agent is trying to maximize value and wants short term so he can get a bigger bite of the growing apple in a couple Summers) and Robertson (who already makes pretty big money and his next deal will be significant but not crazy like doubling his current number).

 

[KrisLetAngry]

He's a good defensemen still. He's doing his best carrying the corpse of the Chicago's D.

 

[Larry44]

If the Stars get Jones, he will be paired with an elite, highly skilled dman (Miro or Harley) OR one of the best shutdown defensive defensemen in the league (Lindell). Would be a win-win for him.

Heiskanen-Jones
Harley-Lyubushkin
Lindell-Ceci

*Even though Bichsel should be in over Ceci*

They’ll have to dump Ceci’s contract won’t they?