I want to thank everyone who replied, this has been an extremely constructive thread, feel free to keep it coming.
Summary:
I am fully aware NYR will have to add to get the contract moved. I want an idea of how much, which we are getting, but more constructively, who would either
a) have any use for him as LD, recognizing some of this is likely on AV as I postulated and again, he will never be what he was, but if NY eats half price on his deal to 3.75, at that point he may get takers
AND
b) regardless of whether or not there is actual use for him as a player, is someone willing to take him based on goodies also going along. Recent example is Chicago moved TT to unload Bickell.
coupla thoughts in response:
Didnt he just sign that contract last year, got a NMC and publicly said that he was planning to stay a long time in NY, buy a house, raise a family, etc? You know what that means OP? That means that he's NOT waiving and Rangers fans have to stop with the Marc Staal proposals that are all over the place. You guys need to start to face reality here and include him in your plans for the next 5 years. Build around him, he's not going anywhere.
You wanted realistic, that's realistic.
That is realistic, thank you.
We can buy out his fancy CT digs.
The future is Skjei and Graves, assuming McDonagh is moved, which may/may not be the case.
He can stay, but his ass will sit.
Therefore, IF there is a place he may be comfortable, which has to likewise be good with taking him, that is the play and the exercise here.
Immediately count out these teams (due to expansion and/or cap space):
PIT, LA, MTL, SJS, CHI, WSH, NYI, FLA, CBJ, STL, MIN, COL, TBL, CAL, OTT, WIN, ANA, EDM, NSH, VAN.
You're left with TOR, DET, PHI, BOS, DAL, BUF, NJ, ARI, CAR.
Then count out teams who need cap flexibility long term, which they would lose by acquiring Staal:
PHI, BOS, BUF, DAL, DET.
You're left with TOR, NJ, ARI, CAR.
Then, count out those teams who just simply don't have any kind of need for Staal:
ARI, CAR.
You're left with Toronto and New Jersey.
Now, count out teams who have just cleaned their house from overpaid contracts and guaranteedly don't want to take one back:
TOR.
You're left with New Jersey.
Now count out the team who is a young, up-and-coming team and doesn't need Staal because of that:
NJ.
You'll keep him.
This was brilliant and thorough and I generally agree, though I could see Buf and Det and Winni as maybe spots, if there was a package with enough upside to make it worth taking on that NMC.
someone will take staal if you add a 1st round pick to him.
I'm guessing that is the minimum.
Buffalo has no incentive to take on Girardi. Taking him on makes little sense for the Sabres, and while they may be looking to rid themselves of Kane, they won't take on an anchor like that it would pretty much punch McCabe's ticket out of town and stick them with a terrible player on a terrible contract. I think the Rangers will have a very difficult time moving either one of Staal and Girardi given their cap hit, contract length, and most importantly with the NMC they have.
I get you but don't fully agree.
First, we do agree that the ONLY reason Sabes go there is if it is decided Kane is personna non grata.
Then, it becomes a question of how much does NY add, besides doing half on Staal, to move his NMC which immediately is too prohibitive to buy out, but in a couple of years, not so much.
Plus, I think if NY is eating half for the full duration, at some point Buf could eat a little more to move him if absol. nec
losing power, later... lights back on,lol
No worries. Buffalo has no interest in Kane for Staal, and they don't have interest in Girardi for Kane either, so you're going to have to find another team to move him to.
Neither of those trades make Buffalo a better team than they are with Kane. Both of those trades would make them worse. Tim Murray is not looking to just dump Kane anyway. People don't seem to understand that Murray just gave up,a ton of assets for Kane barely over 1 season ago. Dumping him for spare parts would be a good way to put his job in jeopardy. That would be terrible asset management and Tim Murray is smarter than that. He is absolutely Not a GM who acts on emotion or makes rash decisions. The Only way Kane gets traded is if it makes the Sabres better with the return. Neither Staal or Girardi do that.
People act like Kane is going around punching babies or something. He has a trespassing charge and it will likely be dropped since the bar owner has already said Kane was not trespassing. The other charges are non criminal.
Tim Murray is not looking to just dump Kane anyway. People don't seem to understand that Murray just gave up,a ton of assets for Kane barely over 1 season ago. Dumping him for spare parts would be a good way to put his job in jeopardy. That would be terrible asset management and Tim Murray is smarter than that. He is absolutely Not a GM who acts on emotion or makes rash decisions.
IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF
they are sticking w/Kane for better or worse, I agree with you.
If it appears there is too much worse, and he is a ticking bomb waiting to happen, then the thinking may well shift to recovering some of that by trade. But no one wants a problem child --- unless they can move a problem headache.
The Only way Kane gets traded is if it makes the Sabres better with the return. Neither Staal or Girardi do that.
That would depend on how many assets I am giving you.
Also, I believe Girardi is only 4 years as opposed to Staal's 5 with complete NMC, I think, whereas according to General Fanager:
NMC for whole duration of contract, modified NTC for 2017-2019 (player provides list of 15 teams to which he cannot be traded)
Source:
General Fanager
This means after next year he could conceivably be dealt.
Unfortunately for Rangers, it appears this is just right after the expansion draft, and all of this is to save a slot for expansion. We can't buy him out now, because the savings aren't there, with 8 years of hit on buy out. However, after a year + that changes dramatically.
Then in the case of Girardi, who is a very strong guy, but has taken on a lot of damage, there is always a chance that if he is played too much and breaks down at this point you could LTIR the guy.
Personally, I'd like to kick the guy upstairs, to the TV booth or something, for a half mil more than he makes, and be done with it. But fall back options are necessary.
It won't be Buffalo for both expansion draft and future cap reasons. They are 2 years from handing out the Eichel and Reinhart contracts. They aren't sinking all that money in with 5 years left. Zero chance.
Girardi is 4 years not 5.
As noted, he CAN be moved, the NMC morphs down into NTC.
Totally do-able if we can agree on a price.
Buffalo has no interest in Girardi or Staal....
The problem is their contract term suck. If Stasl had just 2 yrs left there might be some interest. He has 5. Years 3-5 buffalo needs their cap space...not dead weight. You n 2 yrs buffalo has to resign Eichel and Reinhart and their other young kids in years 3-5.
Pls note above comment.
Staal not an ideal fit.
Girardi can fit immediately and be moved if nec.
As the other poster said...there are only a few teams who could even afford him. One is Las Vegas.
This is a thought.
But can I strike a deal with them that they MUST use their pick on Staal? Or better yet do I want to make it they take Staal before and MUST draft like Tanner Glass in exchange for x? [presumably a ranger 2018 1st or similar]
THAT is one piece of leverage NY does have w/Marc.
If there is completely no choice, and he is not amenable to a move to any other team, we will have no choice but to seriously consider playing this card.
If you take on Evander Kane consider it done.
Realize you are a partial voice, which is apparently divided, but 100%, the core of the deal must be problem contract (Girardi) for problem child Kane.
While the pickings for Staal are slim (save the LV play which looks like the best move) I could see Girardi who is from near Buf to go home pushing him to make it work.
I still think there's a trade to be made between NY and Buffalo that could benefit both clubs.
To Buffalo
M Staal- 5 years left
R Nash- 2 years left
T Glass- 1 years left
To N.Y.
E Kane- 2 years left
M Moulson- 3 years left
J Georges- 1 year left
Or Buffalo could just stay the course.
I am not close minded to something that sends you Nash at the right price, and takes some of your crap.
The idea here for NY is not necessarily to have crap that stinks less, but to grab the bull by the horns and not have the NMC screw us in the expansion draft.
As noted, will listen with open mind but now seeing Girardi the better fit for both clubs and allows better chance for NY to move both.
I don't think this is correct. The only time a NMC becomes voided is if the player is traded before their NMC has kicked in. So any team trading for Girardi and/or Staal would have to honor their NMC and would be forced to protect them in the coming expansion draft. So that makes it extremely unlikely they get moved between now and then.
I am not the expert here but that may be the case.
There could be two separate interpretations, one about if the NMC is somehow turned off, and if so for how temporarily is that the case, if a player agrees to waive; and the other interpretation as to the expansion draft, which it appears is the case they MUST be protected.
Even if Buffalo wants to get rid of Kane, that's still an absolutely horrendous deal for them. 1) Kane is a better player than Staal at this point; and 2) Staal's contract is an albatross.
The only way you might be able to offload Staal on the Sabres is by taking back Moulson.
according to Fanager, Moulson is a limited or modified NTC, not an NMC.
This means he can not block a move to a team that will take him if enough payment accompanies.
Rangers are already taking EKane, and want the Girardi in exchange matchup there, but
I could see how Rangers could OTHERWISE do a double deal and pay Sabes to swap similar Staal numbers for Moulson, same 5 year term; EXCEPT that I am expecting maybe 1 NMC add in Girardi is max Buf can handle, given how many Ds they have to protect in the expansion draft.
