Value of: REALISTIC landing spots for Marc Staal

[TheTakedown]

Have a lot of thoughts about this trade. There's something here around these two teams trading essentially crap for crap, although think this is a bit worse for the Rangers. Even if it's not much, Nash still has positive value at full salary with only 2 years left on his deal. Also, Gorges also has 2 years left on his deal, not 1. In order of trade value (positive to negative, with most players being negative), it's probably something like:

Nash
Gorges
Glass (only because there's only 1 year left on his deal)
Kane
Staal
Moulson

Maybe just Staal and Nash for Kane and Gorges.

I'd agree. Evander Kane is a wild card (I think he'd flourish in NY, but that's another conversation), but an unknown potential for a known quantity in Nash is a risk for the Rangers, which is then mostly negated by moving a large contract for a position we have plenty of up and coming players that can take it in the next year or two.

Beyodn that the crap for crap exchange works for me (especially if it's to get Tanner Glass away from AV).

 

[TheTakedown]

Staal for Dustin Brown?

I'd be OK with something around this

 

[Curufinwe]

Could a Staal for MacDonald trade happen?

Staal is better, but his contract is one year longer and has a cap hit that is $700,000 higher. More importantly, MacDonald has no NMC and the Flyers have an open expansion slot for a dman if they don't re-sign MDZ.

So the Rangers could protect Girardi, McDonagh and Klein in the expansion draft. And the Flyers would protect Staal, Ghost and Gudas.

 

[briererocks]

As a Flyers fan I would not do it. Staal sucks as does MaDonald. We should buy out MacDonald after the expansion draft and call it a day. With respect to Staal, the extra cap hit and additional year are not worth it. Only thing Staal has going for him is his last name. Though with Eric sucking and about to be an albatross in Minnesota that cache will soon be lost as well.

 

[TheTakedown]

Sabres have no interested at all in Girardi.. Another RHD we don't need at all lol.. PLUS hes wayyy over payed!

what about Girardi at 50%?

 

[Curufinwe]

As a Flyers fan I would not do it. Staal sucks as does MaDonald. We should buy out MacDonald after the expansion draft and call it a day. With respect to Staal, the extra cap hit and additional year are not worth it. Only thing Staal has going for him is his last name. Though with Eric sucking and about to be an albatross in Minnesota that cache will soon be lost as well.

June, 2017 seems early for a MacDonald buyout. The Flyers should have plenty of cap space next season. Streit and Schultz will be gone, and one of Raffl or Weise will probably be taken in the ED.

 

[TheTakedown]

Could a Staal for MacDonald trade happen?

Staal is better, but his contract is one year longer and has a cap hit that is $700,000 higher. More importantly, MacDonald has no NMC and the Flyers have an open expansion slot for a dman if they don't re-sign MDZ.

So the Rangers could protect Girardi, McDonagh and Klein in the expansion draft. And the Flyers would protect Staal, Ghost and Gudas.

I'd be on this as a Rangers fan. In-division trades are tough obviously but I think it's something that can benefit both sides. I wouldn't mind throwing in a 2nd in the 2019 draft.

At the very least, I would see if Staal agreed to it as a paper transaction so the rangers would get an additional protection slot -- e.g. they'd be either taking another bad contract, or paying the "price" of a pick to buy an additional protection slot. That's well worth it in my opinion since Girardi is taking one of those 3 spots.

This is of course assuming:
Protected Players: McDonagh, McIlrath, and Girardi
Exempt Players: Skjei
Exposed Players: Holden
Players traded prior to expansion: Klein

 

[briererocks]

I'd be on this as a Rangers fan. In-division trades are tough obviously but I think it's something that can benefit both sides. I wouldn't mind throwing in a 2nd in the 2019 draft.

Thankfully Hextall is smart. He is not taking a crappy defensman with longer term and a bigger cap hit because you are throwing in a 2nd in 2019. MacDonald will be bought after this season or after next season.

 

[TheTakedown]

Thankfully Hextall is smart. He is not taking a crappy defensman with longer term and a bigger cap hit because you are throwing in a 2nd in 2019. MacDonald will be bought after this season or after next season.

sorry I edited before you posted. I could see it being more realistic as a paper transaction where the Rangers are buying an additional protection slot for the duration of the expansion draft.

Other than that, the rangers could probably get out of having to protect either of these guys by sending Las Vegas a pick in return for them not selecting those two players. Assuming that's binding, I think Girardi and Staal would "waive" their clauses if necessary (Girardi's clause is up by then but since he has an underlying NMC, that's the part that would have to be waived)

 

[Off Sides]

If this is accurate, and not much changes between now and then, like a multi player deal, and if I understand the expansion rules,

http://www.generalfanager.com/teams/expansion

I think Klein will be moved prior to expansion if possible. (decent defender someone will want for their playoffs and next season at his smallish cap hit) They buyout Girardi, they protect McD, have to protect Staal, and they expose Holden and McIlrath. Skjei is exempt.

That leaves them with 8 other protection slots.

Lundqvist (NMC), Stepan, Zibanejad, Zucc, Kreider, Hayes, Miller are given

Leaves 1 slot for Nash, Grabner, Lindberg, Fast, Jooris, McIlrath (assuming some of those get new deals)

If they can move Nash prior for futures, they end up protecting one of the rest of that group (if they are re-signed) (I think Fast or Lindberg or with an outside chance McIlrath)

Nash (with some decent amount retained) for a late 1st, good prospect and some other player that can be, and they don't care about exposing (a cap dump that does not have a NMC) (maybe more should he be Nash of two years ago)

Klein similar, yet not as much of a return, 2nd and decent prospect seems about right. (depends on market at trade deadline)

Rangers including the Brassard trade, Nash and Klein trades, add Zibanejad, a late 1st, two 2nds, and two decent if not good prospects, and end up protecting one of McIlrath, Fast, Grabner, Lindberg, Jooris, and a player or two they took back as cap dumps.

They expose the legal minimum stuff, (Holden or McIlrath, those forwards and Raanta should quality) they get futures, and they expose the lesser player in expansion out of that group.

If they literally can not move Nash, it means he is about done, they may end up exposing him.

 

[vipernsx]

Agree he looks good w/Karlsson, and I am willing to take a chance on both Skjei and Graves.

Whatever rookie/post rookie mistakes/growing pains they have, worth it to not only make the cap space but bypass the exp draft.

Skjei is ready to step into a full time top4 role in the NHL. Graves is not, he needs another season of high minutes in the AHL. The plan for Graves should be to do exactly that next season and be there as a call up if/when needed.

 

[Blue Goose]

If this is accurate, and not much changes between now and then, like a multi player deal, and if I understand the expansion rules,

http://www.generalfanager.com/teams/expansion

I think Klein will be moved prior to expansion if possible. (decent defender someone will want for their playoffs and next season at his smallish cap hit) They buyout Girardi, they protect McD, have to protect Staal, and they expose Holden and McIlrath. Skjei is exempt.

That leaves them with 8 other protection slots.

Lundqvist (NMC), Stepan, Zibanejad, Zucc, Kreider, Hayes, Miller are given

Leaves 1 slot for Nash, Grabner, Lindberg, Fast, Jooris, McIlrath (assuming some of those get new deals)

If they can move Nash prior for futures, they end up protecting one of the rest of that group (if they are re-signed) (I think Fast or Lindberg or with an outside chance McIlrath)

Nash (with some decent amount retained) for a late 1st, good prospect and some other player that can be, and they don't care about exposing (a cap dump that does not have a NMC) (maybe more should he be Nash of two years ago)

Klein similar, yet not as much of a return, 2nd and decent prospect seems about right. (depends on market at trade deadline)

Rangers including the Brassard trade, Nash and Klein trades, add Zibanejad, a late 1st, two 2nds, and two decent if not good prospects, and end up protecting one of McIlrath, Fast, Grabner, Lindberg, Jooris, and a player or two they took back as cap dumps.

They expose the legal minimum stuff, (Holden or McIlrath, those forwards and Raanta should quality) they get futures, and they expose the lesser player in expansion out of that group.

If they literally can not move Nash, it means he is about done, they may end up exposing him.

But why trade Klein? He's a great fit on that team, and moving him AND buying out Girardi would create a huge hole on the right side of the D (unless you're THAT confident that Shattenkirk is coming home).

I think too much of the expansion protection mindset is going to be affected by how the Rangers perform this year, so it's kinda hard to speculate at this point. I see no reason why they shouldn't protect Staal, McD and Klein to keep three of their top 4 in place (and make a run at Shatty to fill that last spot). I completely agree with the SIX forwards you've got them protecting. As of now, I'd probably protect Lindberg with that last spot:

- Grabner got a 2-year deal specifically so that he could be exposed (IMO) - he's VERY replaceable
- Fast is good, but there are prospects in the system (or a UFA) who could fill his spot
- I liked Jooris in Calgary, but there will likely be a lot of Jooris-esque ("Jooresque"?) players available to LV, so why take him?
- Nash is the big question mark. If he has a breakout season (and Lindberg/Fast struggle), maybe he gets protected and possibly signs an extension. If not, maybe deal him in advance of the expansion draft, though his value may not be so great. That's why I'm in favor of exposing him - sure, you don't get anything in return, but removing his cap hit from the books and getting to keep Fast (if he improves) could be worth it. And I have no doubt in my mind that if Nash is exposed that LV will take him - an expiring contract with a huge cap hit to help them get to the floor (and a big name for marketing purposes) would be ideal.

 

[Off Sides]

But why trade Klein? He's a great fit on that team, and moving him AND buying out Girardi would create a huge hole on the right side of the D (unless you're THAT confident that Shattenkirk is coming home).

I think too much of the expansion protection mindset is going to be affected by how the Rangers perform this year, so it's kinda hard to speculate at this point. I see no reason why they shouldn't protect Staal, McD and Klein to keep three of their top 4 in place (and make a run at Shatty to fill that last spot). I completely agree with the SIX forwards you've got them protecting. As of now, I'd probably protect Lindberg with that last spot:

- Grabner got a 2-year deal specifically so that he could be exposed (IMO) - he's VERY replaceable
- Fast is good, but there are prospects in the system (or a UFA) who could fill his spot
- I liked Jooris in Calgary, but there will likely be a lot of Jooris-esque ("Jooresque"?) players available to LV, so why take him?
- Nash is the big question mark. If he has a breakout season (and Lindberg/Fast struggle), maybe he gets protected and possibly signs an extension. If not, maybe deal him in advance of the expansion draft, though his value may not be so great. That's why I'm in favor of exposing him - sure, you don't get anything in return, but removing his cap hit from the books and getting to keep Fast (if he improves) could be worth it. And I have no doubt in my mind that if Nash is exposed that LV will take him - an expiring contract with a huge cap hit to help them get to the floor (and a big name for marketing purposes) would be ideal.

Klein because they are not likely to re-sign him for 2018/19

But good point, if they move Klein and buyout Girardi they'd need two RD. So perhaps instead of just picks and prospects for Nash and Klein they end up trading for some on the NHL cusp RD. (which I assume is why there are rumors of Skjei possibly switching sides.

Nash I can see having a decent year, if he is healthy, if so trade him at his highest value by also retaining. If they can get that RD back in lieu of the pick or prospect it's just as good.

LV needs to take a certain amount of salary true enough, but giving him away for free seems like it should be the last option.

 

[nyrage]

I think Staal is still a good player (although not as good as he was pre-eye injury), but our stubborn foolish coach is asking him to play a system not a good fit for him and half the defensemen on the roster.

 

[bernmeister]

Could not do it till after expansion
EK, Phanuef and Ceci need to be protected... We got no spot for Staal till after that

Does EK have NMC?
If not we can give you reasonable + but not excessive bribe for EK for Staal, assuming he waives.
That results in a body for a body, both of which need to be exp addressed, but the NMC one you have to maintain on Sens roster (unless Staal waives a 2nd time again) and what Rangers buy is some level of flexibility on EKane.

win-win?

Right, and I get it. But at some point, you have to jettison him on order to make room for impact players. Lundqvist isn't getting any younger. I would be in the camp that argues he cost you Yandle, but frankly, Yandle may have been another ill-advised contract.

I'm not necessarily saying you guys should look to move Buch in order to get rid of Staal. But you should be looking. If Staal's contract looks ugly this year, imagine trying to move him two years down the road when you actually need the cap to remain competitive. I say its better for you guys to swallow your medicine now.

NHL is always better when the Rangers are contenders.

Classy.

Could a Staal for MacDonald trade happen?

Staal is better, but his contract is one year longer and has a cap hit that is $700,000 higher. More importantly, MacDonald has no NMC and the Flyers have an open expansion slot for a dman if they don't re-sign MDZ.

So the Rangers could protect Girardi, McDonagh and Klein in the expansion draft. And the Flyers would protect Staal, Ghost and Gudas.

Bingo.
Within reason, would consent to overpay bribe to lose the NMC.

As a Flyers fan I would not do it. Staal sucks as does MaDonald. We should buy out MacDonald after the expansion draft and call it a day. With respect to Staal, the extra cap hit and additional year are not worth it. Only thing Staal has going for him is his last name. Though with Eric sucking and about to be an albatross in Minnesota that cache will soon be lost as well.

Buy outs are not cheap, and I don't mean in terms of added $$ while you still have to pay salaries.
I mean it in terms of how much cap you have to carry and for how long.
Reluctance to immediately buy out Girardi/Staal now, setting aside what productive value they might have in the right system (even if it is reduced and well below their overpaid salaries), is because of how much dead cap space would be on the roster.
That said, are you firm on that or would you be open to a doable sweetener. If yes, give me an idea of what REASONABLE, DOABLE concession you want.

Skjei is ready to step into a full time top4 role in the NHL. Graves is not, he needs another season of high minutes in the AHL. The plan for Graves should be to do exactly that next season and be there as a call up if/when needed.

Playing percentages, you are correct.
However, I would be willing to take a chance if nec and see if this guy can't do it with a min of minutes pre-NHL, a la McDonagh.
If he can't handle it, we can always grab a vet w/no strings contract for balance of season.
However, 2nd/3rd pair mins with Holden could work.

 

[briererocks]

Every day you are on here proposing various deals regarding trading Staal. If he so good why don't you keep your "slightly overpaid" dman or dman who could "thrive in another system."

No one with a brain would trade for him. Hextall has a brain. Many GMs lack a brain. Even the GMs who are ******** enough to trade for Stall are not trading for Staal before the expansion draft. You are keeping Staal and Girardi. Deal with it.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Does EK have NMC?
If not we can give you reasonable + but not excessive bribe for EK for Staal, assuming he waives.
That results in a body for a body, both of which need to be exp addressed, but the NMC one you have to maintain on Sens roster (unless Staal waives a 2nd time again) and what Rangers buy is some level of flexibility on EKane.

win-win?

Did you seriously just propose Marc Staal for Erik Karlsson? That out to be infraction worthy, holy moly. I await your deserved flaming from Ottawa fans.

 

[defensorfidei]

Did you seriously just propose Marc Staal for Erik Karlsson? That out to be infraction worthy, holy moly. I await your deserved flaming from Ottawa fans.

He says E Kane at the end of the post. Nobody could be that ********. Maybe Milbury but thats about it.

 

[bernmeister]

Did you seriously just propose Marc Staal for Erik Karlsson? That out to be infraction worthy, holy moly. I await your deserved flaming from Ottawa fans.

no, I was going for Evander Kane
obviously.

 

[bernmeister]

He says E Kane at the end of the post. Nobody could be that ********. Maybe Milbury but thats about it.

Thank you, my new friend.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

Since when does E Kane play for the Sens?

 

[Dijock94]

Every day you are on here proposing various deals regarding trading Staal. If he so good why don't you keep your "slightly overpaid" dman or dman who could "thrive in another system."

No one with a brain would trade for him. Hextall has a brain. Many GMs lack a brain. Even the GMs who are ******** enough to trade for Stall are not trading for Staal before the expansion draft. You are keeping Staal and Girardi. Deal with it.

He is still a solid shut down defenseman. His puck skills blow and he no longer rushes the puck like he used to before he was injured. He is a solid defender on a bad contract. I agree no one wants him, but not because "he sucks" no one wants him because his contract is brutal. The Rangers have no need to try to move him, nor could they if they even wanted to. He is locked in as the Rangers 2nd pair LD for the foreseeable future. They don't need the cap space right now anyway.

 

[bernmeister]

Every day you are on here proposing various deals regarding trading Staal. If he so good why don't you keep your "slightly overpaid" dman or dman who could "thrive in another system."

No one with a brain would trade for him. Hextall has a brain. Many GMs lack a brain. Even the GMs who are ******** enough to trade for Stall are not trading for Staal before the expansion draft. You are keeping Staal and Girardi. Deal with it.

He is still a solid shut down defenseman. His puck skills blow and he no longer rushes the puck like he used to before he was injured. He is a solid defender on a bad contract. I agree no one wants him, but not because "he sucks" no one wants him because his contract is brutal. The Rangers have no need to try to move him, nor could they if they even wanted to. He is locked in as the Rangers 2nd pair LD for the foreseeable future. They don't need the cap space right now anyway.

the whole point is to see what options possibly may be created.
it is business, it is negotiation.
99% of scenarios do not work cause either
taking on an NMC does not work despite compensation coming back
or
in other cases there is flexibility to do that, but
Rangers and a potential trade partner cannot agree on acceptable compensation.

However, I don't need half a dozen here
I got 2 NMCs, including the focus of this thread, Staal

The rule is no, but I only need 2 exceptions
and there are a handful of possible scenarios, though there is not unanimity yet

 

[Raymones]

I think the Rangers are stuck with Staal for now. And it might not be a bad thing either. Tutoring and giving Skjei and younger guys a smoother transition, not throwing them to the wolves immediately (like Schenn in Toronto, for example). Opportunities to move him might come after the expansion draft, but for now I think he is a Ranger.

Stralman was only a part of 1 deep run, but I agree with everything else 200%.

So ECF-final 2012 doesn't count? He scored a couple of goals on that run, if I recall correclty. If it doesn't count, the Rangers really only had one run.

 

[McSuper]

Realistic, you say? New York Rangers

You missed the AHL if that is even an option . I am not sure if he has a No Trade or a No movement . I guess you are right if it a No movement clause .


Edit : No movement clause for the next 2 years then no trade clause after until 2021 .