If by "by the end" you mean in only 2 periods of the showcase, i.e., the last 2 periods, then yes. In only those 2 periods of the showcase was Makar the better player.
RD Timothy Liljegren - Ex-Rogle BK, SHL (2017, 17th, TOR) III
- Thread starter Epictetus
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If by "by the end" you mean in only 2 periods of the showcase, i.e., the last 2 periods, then yes. In only those 2 periods of the showcase was Makar the better player.
WTFMAN99
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- Jun 17, 2009
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Then I look like a complete idiot
I thought Liljegren had more of an impact then Makar. Doesn't mean Colorado was silly to take Makar either, he has a lot of potential.
Critical13
Fear is the mind-killer.
If I applied this logic to all players, you would look silly.
Adam Larsson stagnated at the professional level. His stats as a junior and his failure to develop into an elite player at the NHL level do not mean that Liljegren will follow the same fate.
To be honest, if Lilly has a career like Larsson, I would be pretty happy. However, I think he can be more than that.
WTFMAN99
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- Jun 17, 2009
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I would 110% sign off right now if I could be promised Liljegren ends up like Larsson. It's not that I don't believe in Liljegren either but that would fit our team like a glove right now. I think Liljegren has more offense to give and may not be 100% on the same level of defense, Larsson is underrated there.
Its not hard to be more than Larsson offensively... but he is an absolute beast in his own end. One of the most underrated players of all time in NJ. Every time he was on the ice you didn't have to worry about the other team scoring. Just insanely reliable. Liljegren will be nowhere near that type of presence in his own end... not many are.
The Thin White Duke
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- Aug 11, 2009
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There's a whole can of worms about whether transition skills are more important than reliable defensive skills for keeping the puck out of your net. I think it's pretty clear the Leafs are putting their eggs in the transition basket.
That being said, drafting a 80% effective Larsson at #17 would be amazing.
Placid Perspicuity
Registered User
- Apr 19, 2016
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I agree. It's obvious what he is doing, and is clearly not worth everyone's time.
What kind of a jerk sees that people being happy about something, so makes it his mission to stomp on their excitement? A comment here and there to state a differing opinion is understandable; posting multiple times to reiterate the same point telling fans not to be excited about the future is just pathetic. I can't be the only one who has noticed the desperation in his comments, trying so hard to make sure Leaf fans aren't happy about anything.
As for Liljegren, none of us really know why some teams opted for a different selection, but I am happy that we got him. I remember after the 2015 draft, many Leaf fans were pleased to see management take a shot at players with higher skill rather than the "safe" pick, and Liljegren certainly seems to fit that bill. I'm not counting my chickens yet, but I am looking forward to seeing if he can show us why he was so highly regarded not too long ago.
Critical13
Fear is the mind-killer.
Why are you writing him off completely?
He will never be as good as Larsson traditionally, that's a fair assumption to make, but there's more to defence than the traditional gap work/laning/poisitioning/stickwork. Defencemen like Liljegren (and NHL examples such as PK, Fowler, Krug) can still be good defensively in terms of being excellent puck movers and skaters, meaning less time pinned in their zone.
JAS 39 Gripen
Registered User
Adam Boqvist is already a better player than Liljegren, FYI. Wouldnt surprise me if Monten chose Boqvist over Liljegren for the WJC
I'd be surprised considering when both were on the U-18's this year Boqvist only saw time on the PP. Its also highly debatable if he's already better. At the same age Liljegren was effective in the SHL while Boqvist still hasn't risen above J-20's. I also don't think Liljegren would be the first RHD on the cutting block to make space for Boqvist.
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TDK67
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- Apr 17, 2016
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Isn't the biggest difference between Larsson's SHL production and Liljegren's that he got nearly 2x as much ice time per game than Liljegren? ~17mins vs ~10mins is an astronomical difference and would make Liljegren's p/60 stats far superior to Larsson's.
Morgs
#16 #34 #44 #88 #91
3.4 shots a game for a defenseman is obviously elite. Small sample size though and playing against 'inferior competution'. Still got me thinking, so i checked his SHL stats: 15 shots in 19 games as a 16 year old, and 20 shots in 19 games as a 17 year old.
Brannstrom was just under this year with 34 shots in 35 games as a 17 year old.
Vesalainen had 5 shots in 20 games.
Lias Andersson had 72 shots in 42 as an 18 year old (1998). At 17 he didn't have a goal, so I couldn't check.
Hedman had 39 shots in 39 games as a 17 year old. As an 18 year old he had 104 shots in 43 games (Dec birthday)
Karlsson had 8 shots in 7 games as a 17 year old. As an 18 year old (D+1) he had 58 shots in 45 games.
OEL never played in the SHL.
So he's right in line with some of the best Swedish defenseman in the league, he generates more shots (and has a higher ppg) than every 1999 born player (including forwards).
Just for argument sake, here are the defenseman with more than 3 shots a game in the 2016-17 season (60 games or more):
1. Brent Burns - 3.9
2. Aaron Ekblad - 3.30
3. Dustin Byfuglien - 3.01
4. Justin Faulk - 3.0
We can always dream.
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Sundinisagod
****
He's not already better than Liljegren, but I am hoping we draft him as well, in the latter half of the first round next year.
Both boqvist and dahlin are eligible next year and better than liljegren is right now... Sweden is going to be great on D for WJC
Morgs
#16 #34 #44 #88 #91
As much as I like Boqvist, there isn't any reason to believe that he's better than Liljegren right now. Dahlin is most likely better at the moment, but even that is debatable.
Liljegren should be a lock for the WJC if he's not in the NHL (he won't be). There is no reason they shouldn't bring their 3rd* best defenseman.
*Dahlin and Brannstrom are really the only two that might be better at this exact moment in time.
Going back through the boards of teams pre draft it's funny how malleable people's opinions are. HF concensus was even more favourable than the media/service lists, teams in the 7-10 range liked him as their pick, debated quite seriously against Petterson,Makar, etc
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Atomos2
Registered User
Nylander fell for a number of reasons/ He bounced around from team to team during his draft year and never got on track to some degree but the skills were still there. Liljegren was bouncing around teams this year as well, combined with getting mono and another injury.
If Nylander had mono during that year, who knows what could have happened. One could even claim that he might have fallen more. Regardless, there are a lot of similarities, and speaking as a poster who was actually around and involved during the Nylander threads when they were happening, this thread does have a similarity.
Morgs
#16 #34 #44 #88 #91
16 year old seasons:
Dahlin [SHL] - 26 GP, 1G, 2A, 3P
Liljegren [SHL] - 19 GP, 1G, 4A, 5P
Dahlin [SuperElit] - 24GP, 9G, 13A, 22P
Liljegren [SuperElit] - 29GP, 7G, 15A, 22P
17 year old seasons:
Liljegren (17) [SHL] - 19GP, 1G, 4A, 5P
Hedman (17) [SHL] - 39GP, 2G, 2A, 4P
Karlsson (17) [SHL] -7GP, 1G, 0A, 1P
Karlsson (17) [SuperElit] - 38GP, 13G, 24A, 37P
OEL (17) [Allsvenskan] - 39GP, 3G, 14A, 17P
Dahlin (17) - ?
(If you don't know, the best is SHL, then Allsvenskan, then SuperElit)
Just like everyone, i predict that Dahlin *will* be better, but there's no real definitive proof that says "Dahlin is ahead of Liljegren" TODAY. You can only base it on projection and eye test, which is obviously just as flawed as looking at pre-NHL stats.
AuraSphere
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- Jun 27, 2012
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If you're a stat watcher than you must think Andrew Nielsen is a god in the AHL and better than someone like Dermott. He's not, he's absolute trash.
Regardless, Dahlin is near generational, don't do this to yourself or the fan base. Liljegren is a great prospect, but don't compare him to the #1 OA pick in a deep 2018 draft.
Ofcourse Liljegren can be better, but to say they're even close at this point isn't looking too good on your credibility
Morgs
#16 #34 #44 #88 #91
No, Andrew Nielsen has clear deficiencies where as guys like Liljegren and Dahlen do not. Do you think on draft day in 2008 anyone thought that Erik Karlsson would be the best defenseman in the NHL 4~ years later? Guess what, Liljegren is ahead of him at the same time.
I've clearly stated that I believe Dahlin will be better, I just don't see the proof that he's better today if you were going to pick a team for tomorrow. If Liljegren improved on the season he had at 16, he could have been the best offensive Swedish defenseman prospect ever. We will never know, but we do know that his 17 year old season compares favourably to 3 top-5 defenseman in the NHL, AND people also called that season 'bad' haha.
Lmao, I sure care about my credibility on an anonymous website.
LeafChief
Matthew Knies Enthusiast
I am sorry for thinking there are better players out there than him. He'll be the 4th D on that team behind brannstrom, dahlin and boqvist
Sundinisagod
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