RD Timothy Liljegren - Ex-Rogle BK, SHL (2017, 17th, TOR) III

[TDK67]

Lol this sounds familiar...

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=88221269&postcount=72

Haha great find. The comment was not even accurate at the time let alone with hindsight. Nylander had put up historic numbers at every level he played at. Something neither of those 3 players had done. Those kind of uninformed comments usually stem from blind hate and it sounds a lot like what we're seeing in this thread.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Call me crazy, but at this point despite the drafting order, I think Lilly has a much higher floor and is more likely to be an impact NHLer than Makar..

I'll admit I never watched full games, but I've reviewed extensive highlights of both. Makar is not very good in his own zone even against lower end competition. Offensively his shot and tools are clearly there, but check out how the defense pressures him. He has all day long to shoot it, and no one engages him physically.

Lilly has none of those concerns and has proven he is not all those things against pro's. Makar is a high risk high reward pick where gambling on his ceiling based on his skillset. Lilly has nearly all the same skills as Makar but is more proven, and I honestly think he was a victim of a combination of injury, sickness, over scouting, and just being at random spots on teams list where he wasn't the BPA but close to it at every spot after #5 OA.

After watching Lilly's highlights, and seeing him this summer, I am sure a lot of his issues are over blown. Call me crazy, but I think this time next year, Lilly is going to be seen as the better prospect and Makar will be leaning on his draft position in any debates.

 

[TDK67]

Thats awesome... don't recall saying it wasn't like the Nylander threads. Find me a post where I said this isn't. All I said was its a completely different situation and I'm right. I was always high on Nylander. Liljegren isn't Nylander, so I don't quite see the relevance.

Because Liljegren has already busted? Are you pausing to think before posting or just going with the first words that come to mind?

Your comparison of Liljegren to Rundbland is just as inaccurate and absurd as the comparison of Nylander to Filatov.

If I were you I'd spend less time worrying about Liljegren and more time hoping Hischier turns into something more than a mediocre Top 6C.

 

[4thline]

You have no reason to say the reasons he fell weren't true, and where he was ranked at the beginning of the year legitimately is irrelevant.

Are you familiar with the term "reasonable doubt"? At this point there is certainly "reasonable doubt" that Liljegren was performing at less than 100% last season and that it wasn't truly indicative of his ability.

Where he was ranked to begin the year is "legitimately" (might I ask for an example of something that is "illegitimately irrelevant"? ) relevant because if the reason for the fall isn't true then that is his likely true talent level.

Nylander
Top 3 -> character concerns -> falls in draft -> information suggests character concerns were false, suggests potential of top player -> vehement denial -> concerns prove wrong, becomes top player

We're currently in the suggests potential phase which you are vehemently denying the very possibility of, we will soon see based on his play.

 

[zharkenby]

Because Liljegren has already busted? Are you pausing to think before posting or just going with the first words that come to mind?

Your comparison of Liljegren to Rundbland is just as inaccurate and absurd as the comparison of Nylander to Filatov.

If I were you I'd spend less time worrying about Liljegren and more time hoping Hischier turns into something more than a mediocre Top 6C.

again, liljegren isn't Nylander. the main reason Nylander fell was his "attitude" issues not his on ice play. to compare the 2 situations makes no sense, the only similarities are that they were both drafted by Toronto. why bring up hischier btw, this is the liljegren thread. I don't even have a response to that.

 

[zharkenby]

Are you familiar with the term "reasonable doubt"? At this point there is certainly "reasonable doubt" that Liljegren was performing at 100% last season and that it was truly indicative of his ability.

Where he was ranked to begin the year is "legitimately" (might I ask for an example of something that is "illegitimately irrelevant"? ) relevant because if the reason for the fall isn't true then that is his likely true talent level.

Nylander
Top 3 -> character concerns -> falls in draft -> information suggests character concerns were false, suggests potential of top player -> vehement denial -> concerns prove wrong, becomes top player

We're currently in the suggests potential phase which you are vehemently denying the very possibility of, we will soon see based on his play.

As stated above, liljegren didn't fall because of character concerns, it was his on ice play. theres literally nothing you can say or do to argue that. Played poorly, went from top 3 to 17. hence him being top 3 at any point did not matter what so ever. its honestly such a simple concept that you're failing to grasp

 

[zeke]

Doing what he did last year in the SHL at age 17 was remarkable, actually, and is something only the very best nhl dmen have done. But he was a victim of great expectations after doing the same at age 16.

 

[4thline]

As stated above, liljegren didn't fall because of character concerns, it was his on ice play. theres literally nothing you can say or do to argue that. Played poorly, went from top 3 to 17. hence him being top 3 at any point did not matter what so ever. its honestly such a simple concept that you're failing to grasp

Played poorly potentially because of a reason/reasons that were temporary in nature and resulted in the year not showing his true ability.

“We believe in his skill,â€Â said Leafs assistant GM Mark Hunter, who oversaw the draft. “He had a bad case of mono, but he can move pucks. He’s the new NHL kind of defenceman. He can move up and down the ice at a high pace, and make plays out of his own end very quickly.â€Â
Hunter is confident that it was just the mono that hurt Liljegren’s draft year, after a 17-year-old season where he showed “off-the-chartsâ€Â skill.

“He played in the men’s league in a bit, and he got mono. And when he came back he wasn’t the same,â€Â said Hunter. “It took some time to get him going. But (consider) the year before. I always believe in looking at a body of work. You can’t judge a player who, for three months, wasn’t as good as he should be. There were a lot of good things he’s done.

The simple concept not being grasped is that things are not near so simple as you perceive them.

 

[AppsSyl]

Played poorly potentially because of a reason/reasons that were temporary in nature and resulted in the year not showing his true ability.

Perhaps we should start to solely judge Hischier on his last 3 months (Feb-Apr) of the season and ignore his body of work before that. That is about the equivalent to what is happening here with Liljegren, and supported by the Mark Hunter quote.

 

[zharkenby]

Perhaps we should start to solely judge Hischier on his last 3 months of the season and ignore his body of work before that. That is about the equivalent to what is happening here with Liljegren, and supported by the Mark Hunter quote.

you can keep bringing up hisichier but he isn't relevant to this thread at all. Scouts were able to look at his previous body of work and know he was still worth a top 2 pick. liljegrens previous body of work was clearly not all that great if he fell as Far as he didn't. his situation is in no way shape or form similar to hischier. one worked his way up the ladder while the other plummeted down it. Liljegren isn't a top 50 prospect in the league, where as hischier is debatably the best, they shouldn't be mentioned in the same thread lol.

 

[4thline]

A refresher for everyone

THoughts on Mono

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=131110787&postcount=512
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=133557621&postcount=620

General desire and potential "stealness"
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=133557873&postcount=621
http://http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=132480757&postcount=588
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=133455075&postcount=613
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=133585347&postcount=622
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=133681439&postcount=625
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=133687585&postcount=626
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=133702029&postcount=633

 

[smpo11]

Liljregren's "poor" season really wasn't particularly poor. The only 17 year old swedish defenseman to post a better ppg in the SHL in the last 30 years is Adam Larsson. The only one to do it at 16 is no one.

The talent is undeniable. What that means for his future? Who knows?

But I'll bet on those highly skilled kids all day.

 

[zharkenby]

Liljregren's "poor" season really wasn't particularly poor. The only 17 year old swedish defenseman to post a better ppg in the SHL in the last 30 years is Adam Larsson. The only one to do it at 16 is no one.

The talent is undeniable. What that means for his future? Who knows?

But I'll bet on those highly skilled kids all day.

and look how well Adam Larssons offense has translated to the nhl. further proving my point. and larssons game in his own end was many levels higher than liljegren.

 

[93LEAFS]

and look how well Adam Larssons offense has translated to the nhl. further proving my point. and larssons game in his own end was many levels higher than liljegren.

Larsson played 7 more minutes a game.

 

[zeke]

Call me crazy, but at this point despite the drafting order, I think Lilly has a much higher floor and is more likely to be an impact NHLer than Makar..

I'll admit I never watched full games, but I've reviewed extensive highlights of both. Makar is not very good in his own zone even against lower end competition. Offensively his shot and tools are clearly there, but check out how the defense pressures him. He has all day long to shoot it, and no one engages him physically.

Lilly has none of those concerns and has proven he is not all those things against pro's. Makar is a high risk high reward pick where gambling on his ceiling based on his skillset. Lilly has nearly all the same skills as Makar but is more proven, and I honestly think he was a victim of a combination of injury, sickness, over scouting, and just being at random spots on teams list where he wasn't the BPA but close to it at every spot after #5 OA.

After watching Lilly's highlights, and seeing him this summer, I am sure a lot of his issues are over blown. Call me crazy, but I think this time next year, Lilly is going to be seen as the better prospect and Makar will be leaning on his draft position in any debates.

makar is a crazy risky pick given that he's literally never faced good competition. and even his ajhl numbers aren't unprecedented. he is by far the riskiest picm at the top of the draft...and i'm not sure his upside is good enough to justify that gamble.

brannstrom and liljegren both seem better bets to me. and both would have been in my top 5.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Larsson played 7 more minutes a game.

Wouldn't that indicate that Liljegren got easier matchups than Larsson then?

 

[Kamiccolo]

makar is a crazy risky pick given that he's literally never faced good competition. and even his ajhl numbers aren't unprecedented. he is by far the riskiest picm at the top of the draft...and i'm not sure his upside is good enough to justify that gamble.

brannstrom and liljegren both seem better bets to me. and both would have been in my top 5.

I'll agree, I wanted Brannstrom because I was sure Liljegren would be gone by 17. I was upset when he was picked, and still think Brannstrom has the way higher ceiling. I want to see how both of these guys progress, but it may be a case of one becoming a high end offensive D and the other becoming a shutdown quality defender.

 

[NarcoPolo]

and look how well Adam Larssons offense has translated to the nhl. further proving my point. and larssons game in his own end was many levels higher than liljegren.

I'm honestly not even sure what the point is that you're trying to make. What is even the debate?

 

[93LEAFS]

Wouldn't that indicate that Liljegren got easier matchups than Larsson then?

Probably, but you can't really tell until you see how the minutes were split. Liljegren's per minute numbers are noticeably better.

 

[zeke]

Wouldn't that indicate that Liljegren got easier matchups than Larsson then?

in euro leagues that actually usually means playing with alongside the top scoring lines. they're much more structured that way.

 

[Tralfamadore]

Call me crazy, but at this point despite the drafting order, I think Lilly has a much higher floor and is more likely to be an impact NHLer than Makar..

I'll admit I never watched full games, but I've reviewed extensive highlights of both. Makar is not very good in his own zone even against lower end competition. Offensively his shot and tools are clearly there, but check out how the defense pressures him. He has all day long to shoot it, and no one engages him physically.

Lilly has none of those concerns and has proven he is not all those things against pro's. Makar is a high risk high reward pick where gambling on his ceiling based on his skillset. Lilly has nearly all the same skills as Makar but is more proven, and I honestly think he was a victim of a combination of injury, sickness, over scouting, and just being at random spots on teams list where he wasn't the BPA but close to it at every spot after #5 OA.

After watching Lilly's highlights, and seeing him this summer, I am sure a lot of his issues are over blown. Call me crazy, but I think this time next year, Lilly is going to be seen as the better prospect and Makar will be leaning on his draft position in any debates.

I'll call you a little crazy...

Bolded part is an issue.

I actually think Makar was the better player by the end of the showcase.

 

[stickty111]

I'll call you a little crazy...

Bolded part is an issue.

I actually think Makar was the better player by the end of the showcase.

Near the end he did well. Overall Lilly outplayed him and it wasnt close.

 

[Tralfamadore]

Near the end he did well. Overall Lilly outplayed him and it wasnt close.

Certainly had more points but this is debatable.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Certainly had more points but this is debatable.

The "not close" part doesn't really belong imo. I thought Liljegren outplayed him but Brannstrom had a very good showing too. Said it in the other thread, Sweden's defense at the WJC should be pretty good.

 

[Sypher04]

The "not close" part doesn't really belong imo. I thought Liljegren outplayed him but Brannstrom had a very good showing too. Said it in the other thread, Sweden's defense at the WJC should be pretty good.

He was actually saying Liljegren vs Makar was debatable I think. Which it absolutely was not.