RD Moritz Seider (2019, 6th, DET) Part 3

[cjeagle]

Or the Leafs. His size, character and intangibles are exactly what the Leafs need. If he were running that PP, he'd be a 55 point defenseman this season as a rookie.

Seider already has more points(8) at the 9 game point in the season as a defenceman than 7x Norris trophy winner and Redwings legend Niklas Lidstrom(7 points) who finished with 60 points in his rookie year.

I am not saying that Seider can sustain that pace and match Lidstrom's performance but he already is making the same or more of an impact for his team than Niklas did in his rookie year from the start in terms of minutes played, physical dominance and defensive acumen during his rookie year and the latter was a year older when he finally joined the Redwings.

 

[seadawg]

In my eyes Seider's impact on the ice is already at the same level as Fox and Makar. He may not put up as many points as they do, but like them he has immediately become a #1 defenseman in his rookie season with arguably better defense and certainly more physicality and intimidation.

Considering the salaries being handed out to #1 dmen, by the time Seider's ELC expires he might become the highest paid dman in the NHL.

 

[Henkka]

Considering the salaries being handed out to #1 dmen, by the time Seider's ELC expires he might become the highest paid dman in the NHL.

That's not how Yzerman operates. He'll find a way to get somekind of small bargain at least, like he did with Hedman.

Kyle Dubas would pay the premium, more than Erik Karlsson or Doughty for sure.

 

[majormajor]

In my eyes Seider's impact on the ice is already at the same level as Fox and Makar. He may not put up as many points as they do, but like them he has immediately become a #1 defenseman in his rookie season with arguably better defense and certainly more physicality and intimidation.

Considering the salaries being handed out to #1 dmen, by the time Seider's ELC expires he might become the highest paid dman in the NHL.

I only watched two full Wings games so I can't say I know for sure, but that is certainly not what I saw in my viewings. Seider is pushing play better than any Wings D we've seen in a long time, but he's not yet pushing play like Makar or Fox. Makar is a one man army offensively, you can put him out there with bottom sixers and you have a scoring threat every time. And saying Seider is better defensively than Fox is probably wildly off the mark, I don't see that degree of consistency.

 

[Big Empty]

Going to be at the Bell Centre tonight watching him play. Seider is awesome.

 

[LarKing]

I only watched two full Wings games so I can't say I know for sure, but that is certainly not what I saw in my viewings. Seider is pushing play better than any Wings D we've seen in a long time, but he's not yet pushing play like Makar or Fox. Makar is a one man army offensively, you can put him out there with bottom sixers and you have a scoring threat every time. And saying Seider is better defensively than Fox is probably wildly off the mark, I don't see that degree of consistency.

Agreed. Seider has been impressive but it’s clear he’s still learning at times. The hype train is fun but it’s a bit much imo. He can and will get there I think, but people acting like he’s dominating games are pretty out to lunch.

 

[SuperScript29]

I only watched two full Wings games so I can't say I know for sure, but that is certainly not what I saw in my viewings. Seider is pushing play better than any Wings D we've seen in a long time, but he's not yet pushing play like Makar or Fox. Makar is a one man army offensively, you can put him out there with bottom sixers and you have a scoring threat every time. And saying Seider is better defensively than Fox is probably wildly off the mark, I don't see that degree of consistency.

I think many people don't realize that the kid is still learning the game and is somewhat raw, but he's showing huge improvements going from an off board pick to a potential #1 franchise dman.

 

[seadawg]

I'm saying his impact on the ice as a rookie is on the same level as Makar and Fox's rookie seasons. I wasn't implying that Seider is better than current Fox or Makar. Like Makar and Fox, he will only get better as well.

Basically what I'm saying is that, like Fox and Makar, he stepped into the NHL and immediately assumed a #1 dman role in his rookie season. It's rare for dmen to do that, and as fans we've been blessed with some real gems lately.

And with inflation, in 3 years Seider could sign for an AAV above $11 million given all the huge contracts given out to dmen recently.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

And with inflation, in 3 years Seider could sign for an AAV above $11 million given all the huge contracts given out to dmen recently.

If he follows the path of the current young dmen getting paid then absolutely. You have to imagine the cap should start going up by then as well, causing his hit to be higher than some of these COVID contracts. Then again, it will also depend on offensive output, as offensive dmen tend to get paid higher.

 

[majormajor]

I'm saying his impact on the ice as a rookie is on the same level as Makar and Fox's rookie seasons. I wasn't implying that Seider is better than current Fox or Makar. Like Makar and Fox, he will only get better as well.

Basically what I'm saying is that, like Fox and Makar, he stepped into the NHL and immediately assumed a #1 dman role in his rookie season. It's rare for dmen to do that, and as fans we've been blessed with some real gems lately.

And with inflation, in 3 years Seider could sign for an AAV above $11 million given all the huge contracts given out to dmen recently.

Cap is going up about 1% per year the next few years, so if he was on the level of Fox and Makar you'd expect a contract around $9.7m per.

Fox was instantly better defensively, in my opinion, and Makar was instantly better offensively. Perhaps Seider will be in between them in those regards, or behind both overall.

 

[cjeagle]

I'm saying his impact on the ice as a rookie is on the same level as Makar and Fox's rookie seasons. I wasn't implying that Seider is better than current Fox or Makar. Like Makar and Fox, he will only get better as well.

Basically what I'm saying is that, like Fox and Makar, he stepped into the NHL and immediately assumed a #1 dman role in his rookie season. It's rare for dmen to do that, and as fans we've been blessed with some real gems lately.

And with inflation, in 3 years Seider could sign for an AAV above $11 million given all the huge contracts given out to dmen recently.

I hope that Edvinsson will have the same impact if he makes the Redwings next year. A pair of #1 defenceman on the same team would be difficult to beat.

 

[seadawg]

Cap is going up about 1% per year the next few years, so if he was on the level of Fox and Makar you'd expect a contract around $9.7m per.

Fox was instantly better defensively, in my opinion, and Makar was instantly better offensively. Perhaps Seider will be in between them in those regards, or behind both overall.

Perhaps. I don't think player contracts go up in equal proportion to cap increases, as suggested by these recent dmen contracts that are substantially higher than recent cap increases, comparatively-speaking.

 

[cjeagle]

NHL's Rookie of the Month : Moritz Seider



I predict that this will just be the first of many accolades he will receive in the NHL.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Hate myself for posting one of these but it has to be done

 

[Boxscore]

In my eyes Seider's impact on the ice is already at the same level as Fox and Makar. He may not put up as many points as they do, but like them he has immediately become a #1 defenseman in his rookie season with arguably better defense and certainly more physicality and intimidation.

I think this is fair. However, I liken him more to a rookie Miro Heiskanen, although bigger and more physical. Makar and Fox are incredibly flashy, silky, and their offense is elite. Mo is more well-rounded but the sky is the limit.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I think this is fair. However, I liken him more to a rookie Miro Heiskanen, although bigger and more physical. Makar and Fox are incredibly flashy, silky, and their offense is elite. Mo is more well-rounded but the sky is the limit.

Honestly, I don't think he's like any of the above, including Heiskanen.

Fox is greatest at attacking from the point up the half wall and making plays to the net or across the crease.
Makar is the best from blueline to red line rushes, zone penetration and dangling his way through a couple skaters to create a chance out of nothing.
I think these two will consistently be top 10 or even top 5 in defense scoring moving forward.

Heiskanen plays more of a traditional 2-way defensive style and may be held back a bit by his coach. I think he's going to be one of those guys that ends up getting a lot of Norris votes and comes close but never quite wins because someone with a few more points wins.

Seider is getting his points by virtue of holding the line and facilitating the cycle, or from making a great defensive play and then moving the puck in the other direction in a split second. Not to make a Lidstrom comparison, but that's a lot of what Lidstrom did throughout his career. He could carry it effortlessly, he could snipe, he could blast it through a crowd, what he did best to facilitate Detroit's offense was stopping the other team's attack cold and forcing them to skate the other way.

 

[seadawg]

Honestly, I don't think he's like any of the above, including Heiskanen.

Fox is greatest at attacking from the point up the half wall and making plays to the net or across the crease.
Makar is the best from blueline to red line rushes, zone penetration and dangling his way through a couple skaters to create a chance out of nothing.
I think these two will consistently be top 10 or even top 5 in defense scoring moving forward.

Heiskanen plays more of a traditional 2-way defensive style and may be held back a bit by his coach. I think he's going to be one of those guys that ends up getting a lot of Norris votes and comes close but never quite wins because someone with a few more points wins.

Seider is getting his points by virtue of holding the line and facilitating the cycle, or from making a great defensive play and then moving the puck in the other direction in a split second. Not to make a Lidstrom comparison, but that's a lot of what Lidstrom did throughout his career. He could carry it effortlessly, he could snipe, he could blast it through a crowd, what he did best to facilitate Detroit's offense was stopping the other team's attack cold and forcing them to skate the other way.

Completely agree on all points. All four are unique players but similar in the sense that they almost immediately transitioned into the NHL as elite dmen.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Cap is going up about 1% per year the next few years, so if he was on the level of Fox and Makar you'd expect a contract around $9.7m per.

Fox was instantly better defensively, in my opinion, and Makar was instantly better offensively. Perhaps Seider will be in between them in those regards, or behind both overall.

How many of Seider's games have you watched again?

 

[KidLine93]

Raymond,Seider,Cossa looks like a great core for the rebuild.

Seider has probably risen his stock the most post-draft in his class, I think Cossa was a steal at 15 and Raymond came as advertised this year.

 

[r0bert8841]

I hope that Edvinsson will have the same impact if he makes the Redwings next year. A pair of #1 defenceman on the same team would be difficult to beat.

If he is on the Wings next year he is going to be on the bottom pair. Seider needed two years to reach the NHL and be where he is at. Raymond was supposed to take two years. Both Seider and Raymond have much simpler games that make a smoother transition to the NHL. If Edvinsson makes the Wings next year, the transition won't be nearly as smooth. I would expect him to be an impact player 23-24 though.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

If he is on the Wings next year he is going to be on the bottom pair. Seider needed two years to reach the NHL and be where he is at. Raymond was supposed to take two years. Both Seider and Raymond have much simpler games that make a smoother transition to the NHL. If Edvinsson makes the Wings next year, the transition won't be nearly as smooth. I would expect him to be an impact player 23-24 though.

Seider would have been in the NHL last year if not for the SHL contract rules. He had to commit to a full time contract instead of a loan contract.
At the rate Edvinsson is improving I would not be the least bit surprised to see him as the 2nd pair LD on Detroit next year. He's got...
Leddy (hopefully)
DeKeyser (hopefully not)
Marc Staal (hopefully)
Jared McIsaac (hopefully)
Albert Johansson (hopefully)

to contend with for a top 4 role.

Next year's FA pool is thin on impact LD. He could probably play 18-20 minutes a night for Detroit next season and it wouldn't surprise me one bit.

 

[r0bert8841]

Seider would have been in the NHL last year if not for the SHL contract rules. He had to commit to a full time contract instead of a loan contract.
At the rate Edvinsson is improving I would not be the least bit surprised to see him as the 2nd pair LD on Detroit next year. He's got...
Leddy (hopefully)
DeKeyser (hopefully not)
Marc Staal (hopefully)
Jared McIsaac (hopefully)
Albert Johansson (hopefully)

to contend with for a top 4 role.

Next year's FA pool is thin on impact LD. He could probably play 18-20 minutes a night for Detroit next season and it wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Yeah he wouldve been in the NHL but he wouldn't have been this good. Edvinsson could be on the Wings next year, but it won't be as impactful as Seider is now. If you want Edvinsson to have a similar impact as Seider when he comes in, I think you would keep him in the SHL another year. While Edvinsson has some elite areas of his game, there are other levels that just aren't at NHL caliber yet, and he will get burned.

 

[Tetsuo]

Yeah he wouldve been in the NHL but he wouldn't have been this good. Edvinsson could be on the Wings next year, but it won't be as impactful as Seider is now. If you want Edvinsson to have a similar impact as Seider when he comes in, I think you would keep him in the SHL another year. While Edvinsson has some elite areas of his game, there are other levels that just aren't at NHL caliber yet, and he will get burned.

Speaking as someone who was a bit lower on Edvinsson pre-draft, what areas of his game aren't NHL-ready yet? Because he pretty much checks every box except his shot.

 

[cjeagle]

If he is on the Wings next year he is going to be on the bottom pair. Seider needed two years to reach the NHL and be where he is at. Raymond was supposed to take two years. Both Seider and Raymond have much simpler games that make a smoother transition to the NHL. If Edvinsson makes the Wings next year, the transition won't be nearly as smooth. I would expect him to be an impact player 23-24 though.

Seider would have made the Redwings last year if it weren't for the SHL requiring a full season commitment in order to add him to the roster. Considering our lack of depth on defence, he would have made the top 4 defenceman last year as well.

We will have 4 unrestricted free agents next year on defence. Even if Yzerman signs 3 free agents(either from the current roster or outside) to replace them, I think he would leave at least one slot open up for grabs for one of our prospects.

Recently Kronwall mentioned they look at several criteria before considering if a prospect is ready for callup to the Redwings. One is that he dominates the level he is in that is just below the NHL and Edvinsson seems to be doing exactly just that at the SHL.

Another is that they do well on the national teams of their respective countries either at the World Championships or the Olympics and that still has to be decided for Edvinsson since he has only recently made an impact for the top tier SHL this year and hasn't had a chance to prove himself yet at the international tournament men's level.

There have been calls in the Swedish media to have Edvinsson included in the Olympics roster but despite his dominance in the SHL it is still going to be a tall order since he will be competing with proven NHL defenceman for a slot on the Olympic team.

The Redwings have the advantage of having Kronvall and Zetterberg serving as advisers to the Olympics coaching staff which is headed by former Redwings forward Johan Garpenlöv as head coach. I am sure they will take into consideration of the calls to add Edvinsson to the Olympic roster in February if he continues to dominate the SHL since they try to add impact players from the SHL as well to round out the Olympic rosters as they have done in the past. If he does make it there or at the 2022 Hockey World Championships, he will have a chance to prove if he can excel at that level which will go a long way to earning a call up to the Redwings training camp.

 

[r0bert8841]

Speaking as someone who was a bit lower on Edvinsson pre-draft, what areas of his game aren't NHL-ready yet? Because he pretty much checks every box except his shot.

His shot is a big one. And his decision making. The dude creates like a million chances but he could probably have double the amount of points if he worked on those two things. His decision making has been getting noticably better, less dangerous turnovers, so lets see where it is at the end of the year.

Besides that, using his size on defense and on the boards. He relies alot on his stick work, which is exceptional, but he should be using his size more. He does use his size sometimes, but it probably goes back to his decision making, he needs to figure out when to use it better.

When he is defending someone away from the puck, it isn't bad but he needs to work on it before he is NHL level. Think he relies on his stick too much here as well.

Also for an offensive defensemen he doesn't get any PP time. Not sure what the deal is there but I would like him to get some experience running a PP before coming over.

I am not saying he is bad at any of these things, but I do think they need work before he is in the NHL.