TCNorthstars
Registered User
This is pure speculation, but what if whatever happened with the Walman in the locker room and his trade left a bad taste in Mo and Raymond’s mouth and that’s causing some hesitation and the delay?
Are you bored?
This is pure speculation, but what if whatever happened with the Walman in the locker room and his trade left a bad taste in Mo and Raymond’s mouth and that’s causing some hesitation and the delay?
"I'm gonna celly like this, then Mo and Ray will hug me."This is pure speculation, but what if whatever happened with the Walman in the locker room and his trade left a bad taste in Mo and Raymond’s mouth and that’s causing some hesitation and the delay?
This is pure speculation, but what if whatever happened with the Walman in the locker room and his trade left a bad taste in Mo and Raymond’s mouth and that’s causing some hesitation and the delay?
So if you offer them both 8*8.5 last summer and they say "we have no interest in signing early" you just pay them more until they change their minds?Pay them more to change their mind. Odds are it would have still been less than what they are commanding now this fall with:
1. Ray's significant step up and
2. All the other D that have extended for big money out of their ELCs, none of whom are better than Mo.
Same source as the "they didn't want to sign early."So if you offer them both 8*8.5 last summer and they say "we have no interest in signing early" you just pay them more until they change their minds?
Or do you have a source on them being willing to accept less?
I'm not presenting that as fact though, it's just pushing back on the idea that signing them early and cheap was a real option that Yzerman just decided to not use.Same source as the "they didn't want to sign early."
Are you bored?
Do they get their signing bonus once they sign a new contract? Like if they did sign last summer, would they have received their signing bonuses on those new contracts? That's one reason I can see players signing new deals sooner off an ELC contract. I know they'll get signed, I just don't know if we'll be paying a premium due to other similar and worse players signing large deals. That's my only gripe.What if the players want to wait with signing? Just force them?
Do they get their signing bonus once they sign a new contract? Like if they did sign last summer, would they have received their signing bonuses on those new contracts? That's one reason I can see players signing new deals sooner off an ELC contract. I know they'll get signed, I just don't know if we'll be paying a premium due to other similar and worse players signing large deals. That's my only gripe.
I could've seen Seider doing that, not sure about Raymond.What if the players want to wait with signing? Just force them?
Amazingly, Mo Seider and Lucas Raymond aren't the same guy as Luke Hughes.I could've seen Seider doing that, not sure about Raymond.
But if some of these other stars like Luke Hughes didn't wait then not sure how DET's guys would have. It's possible, though.
My bad, meant Jack.Amazingly, Mo Seider and Lucas Raymond aren't the same guy as Luke Hughes.
Comparison is the thief of joy. Honestly, man, Raymond and Seider aren't getting more than Makar's 6x9. They're likely not getting much less if any that guys like Sanderson and Faber getting 8 and 8.5 or Stutzle in the mid 8s.
Complain about how long it's taking if you like, but the salary brackets for RFAs of that level are pretty much set.
My bad, meant Jack.
I'm not complaining. I'm discussing. Last I checked that's what message boards are for.
Mo was talking about 8 year extensions to media early last season. If he wasn't open to it, he wouldn't bring it up.I'm not presenting that as fact though, it's just pushing back on the idea that signing them early and cheap was a real option that Yzerman just decided to not use.
Also, the fact that they're not signed yet is reasonably solid evidence that these players have not been banging the table to get signed as early as possible.
Mo was talking about 8 year extensions to media early last season. If he wasn't open to it, he wouldn't bring it up.
It is also equally solid evidence that Yzerman doesn't want them signed yet.
Yzerman ain't doing that, my guy.If I build a scenario about this:
- 164 games, 12+80=92 points, -20, (0.56 points/game) 23:06min TOI/game.
Claude Lemieux:
"Mo is ready for a 8-year deal, already after 2 pretty decent years."
Yzerman:
"Well see after the 3rd year"... (signs Ghost, creates the qualcomp wear plan with Lalonde) "let's see how good you are".
Seider 3rd season:
- 82 games, 9+33=42 points, -7 (0.51 points/game) 22:22min TOI/game.
Yzerman negoatiting with Claude the Turtle:
"It seems your representative regressed a bit. I would go with the 8-year, but cutting the salary a bit, right?"
C.Lemieux informing Seider...
Seider:
- Hmmm.... (thinking for a bridge).
Yzerman ain't doing that, my guy.
Yzerman was a player too. He knows that if it is clear he monkeyed with Seider's deployment to soften the hit that it would spread like wildfire and he'd lose all credibility.
And I mean... really, I'm not seeing where this decline is at. That difference that you just put is literally 4 points while being 13 +/- better in half a minute less per game.
That's normal variance in production, not actively holding a guy back. Honestly, I'd probably pay a hypothetical D with 82 game 9 and 33 with a -7 in 22.5 minutes a night a shade more than I'd pay a hypothetical D with an average 6 and 40 with a -20 in 23 minutes a night.
That is bafflingly silly to believe.Regularry the theoretical development should be everything going up. Mostly the ice-time and production for a defenceman.
Think Seider would have got more a year ago. Raymond is the opposite.
Like if Sanderson is the comparable, he was 0.42 ppg player 1 year ago, when signing 8-year. Seider was 0.56, almost "superior" versus him. Seider TOI was also over minute more than Sanderson's.
Then they completed 0.48 ppg (Sanderson) and 0.51 ppg (Seider) seasons. They are much closer now in comparison. Sanderson also had higher TOI/GP than Seider at 2023-24. Numbers won't lie, you don't even have to negotiate at the negotiations, because the numbers will make the case.
Regularry the theoretical development should be everything going up. Mostly the ice-time and production for a defenceman.
Think Seider would have got more a year ago. Raymond is the opposite.
Like if Sanderson is the comparable, he was 0.42 ppg player 1 year ago, when signing 8-year. Seider was 0.56, almost "superior" versus him. Seider TOI was also over minute more than Sanderson's.
Then they completed 0.48 ppg (Sanderson) and 0.51 ppg (Seider) seasons. They are much closer now in comparison. Sanderson also had higher TOI/GP than Seider at 2023-24. Numbers won't lie, you don't even have to negotiate at the negotiations, because the numbers will make the case.
At 8 years, I can easily see Mo commanding $9M given what other D in their ELCs have signed this past year (Power, Sanderson, Faber).Right, and I'm saying that Seider has pretty much been the same guy for three years... largely due to the shifting sands of D pairings around him.
Mostly, I was just saying that Yzerman isn't going to instruct Lalonde to limit Mo's opportunities nor Lalonde limit his opportunities of his own volition for a contract.
And that's what I'm saying too. Particularly with Seider... He's not getting Makar RFA money 6x9. He's not going below Sanderson's 8. So there isn't much risk in staring contest over that last million.